Time Bomb

BandB said:

From Hoppie's on the Mississippi (Imperial MO) south to Kentucky Lake or Barkley Lake. Could always add bladders or drums for that section.

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That distance has changed with the new transient dock in Paducah, KY. It opened this fall (stayed the first night it opened ) and has gas, diesel, electric, water, and pump out. Will have to check my ship's log, but think Hoppie's to Paducah is around 200 miles.

Ted

O C Diver said:

That distance has changed with the new transient dock in Paducah, KY. It opened this fall (stayed the first night it opened ) and has gas, diesel, electric, water, and pump out. Will have to check my ship's log, but think Hoppie's to Paducah is around 200 miles.

Ted

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Great information.

Opened between your our trip and yours. Shows how things are always changing. Thanks for the update. As a word of caution, they change the other way too. For instance, Hoppie's future has been in question for a while and it's really maintained more out of caring about boaters than economics.

On the TN Tom, Bobby's Fish Camp is a location one must keep an eye on.

Gasoline engines are much like a propane system on a boat. Yes, if you mishandle them, or ignore (or don't understand) the potential dangers, then you might just blow up your boat. If, on the other hand, you DO understand the dangers, follow proper procedures, and treat them with the respect that they deserve, then the dangers can be more than adequately mitigated.

BandB said:

Not so quick. Diesel at 7 knots or petrol at 15, some of us might select the petrol. That's the thing in making the decision, there are always many factors, not just type of fuel.

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gaston said:

I think we are on a Trawler Forum nothing to do with speed

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Most of us are here because we chose slow and economical over the alternative..

Some of us have both.

And some of us didn't know you could have an economical boat that can cruise @ 15mph.

I don't like going slow but I like to use my boat. A 34' boat with twin 454's just wouldn't work for me and I couldn't afford to run it like I run my 34' boat with a single 6cyl diesel.

If I could go 15knots I would.

Bringing up "the competition" is what forums are about.

Mrwesson said:

Most of us are here because we chose slow and economical over the alternative..

Some of us have both.

And some of us didn't know you could have an economical boat that can cruise @ 15mph.

I don't like going slow but I like to use my boat. A 34' boat with twin 454's just wouldn't work for me and I couldn't afford to run it like I run my 34' boat with a single 6cyl diesel.

If I could go 15knots I would.

Bringing up "the competition" is what forums are about.

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The specific issue here though is that by purchased the petrol engine he can save considerable dollars up front. Most boats with gas engines are also
going to cruise faster than 7 knots and while they won't be as economical as a 7 knot diesel would have been the typically are cruised faster. 15 knots wouldn't be exceptionally fast at all. They also won't gain in economy by slowing down as much as diesel boats do. Then it's just a matter of how they choose to use them. A very small percentage of gas powered boats on the Great Lakes run regularly at displacement speed.

Just because it's the first one I found, here are some numbers on a 34' Baja with twin 415 hp Mercruisers. 4.8 knots gets 1.6 nmpg. 27.3 knots gets 1.7 nmpg, 43.6 knots gets 1.6 nmpg, 50 knots gets 1.4 nmpg, 61 knots gets 0.9 nmpg. On this boat there is no savings by slowing down to displacement speed.

Now, a 35' Sea Ray Sundancer with twin 375 hp Mercruisers has a very differrent picture. From 8.9 knots to 30.1 knots it gets either 0.7 or 0.8 nmpg. It can slow to 5.8 knots and nearly double that to 1.4 nmpg. Seldom would you see that done, but if it was doing the loop, it would have to slow to 6 or 7 knots to make it on fuel.

Looking at a 35' Sea Ray Sundancer, the base boat price with standard engine is $382k. Change that to diesel and it's another $75k, so basically adds 20% cost to the boat.

If you are buying a boat to do the great loop or even a boat for extended cruising, I think you'll be happier with a diesel. Diesels are generally more reliable than gasoline engines and more suited for long runs at low speeds.

Now the loop can be done in any boat, even a pontoon boat or jet ski but a diesel trawler is best suited for the loop.

Kinda like saying diesel is the best car for.......

But it really isnt.

Not unless the guy had a particular boat being run at a particular speed and has the appropriate diesel for that setup.

The loop speed and most loopers are not really cast in stone.

I have a 6.3 knot boat and run it at that based on what I bought.

HAD I bought something else, say faster with gassers, I might do half my cruising at 18 versus 6.3..... but I cant..... but it is because of something else...not my particular desire or happiness at any given time.

Yep, no right answer, all depends... And I prefer gas simply because I know gas engines best, ever since I replaced the heads on my 1974 Chevy Nova SS in high school. Diesel engines are exotic foreign objects to me. And they clatter. And then there's the whole glow plug thing, there's all that bleeding I keep hearing about, and then cooties grow in the fuel tanks. And apparently you can feed those things fuel made from McDonald's french fry oil. I don't know how you guys deal with all that weirdness.

I don't have a glow plug thing.

Gasoline is more widely available than diesel here, But then, we need to fuel up with diesel about once a year because a true trawler is built for range.

No glow plugs here. No apparent need. Engine starts within a second.

kthoennes said:

Yep, no right answer, all depends... And I prefer gas simply because I know gas engines best, ever since I replaced the heads on my 1974 Chevy Nova SS in high school. Diesel engines are exotic foreign objects to me. And they clatter. And then there's the whole glow plug thing, there's all that bleeding I keep hearing about, and then cooties grow in the fuel tanks. And apparently you can feed those things fuel made from McDonald's french fry oil. I don't know how you guys deal with all that weirdness.

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I hear you.

When I was in high school, I got to know gas engines fairly well, heads off, carbs torn down, clutches apart, and so on. When I got my first diesel, Yanmar YSE12, single cylinder, I was frightened of diesel. In a very short time I learned enough about this strange beast to make it my friend. I was amazed at how simple to maintain it was compared to the gas engines in my cars. No carbs to constantly clean and tune, no spark plugs to gap and constantly replace, no timing to adjust, no points to clean and gap. Just keep the fuel, water and air clean and change the oil regularly. Simplicity itself.
I know gas engines have come a long way towards eliminating maintenance too, but diesels were there long ago.

As for whether to consider a gas boat for certain uses, by all means. It is all about weight. I have a lightweight dinghy, powered by gas. If I didn't want all the trappings of the trawler experience, I could lose enough of the 44000 lbs I have in my boat to get into a boat light enough to be gas powered. But I do want a that stuff, so will put up with the weight and the resulting slower speed. Gas isn't an option for driving that amount of weight.

gaston said:

Petrol are cheap and easy to buy and a massive head ache to sell .You will pay up front for a diesel but the resale will make up for the expense.

PS Dont worry about fuel costs after a short period of ownership fuel is the least of your problems .

PSS I HATE PETROL BOATS

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I sold 3 different SeaRays over the years. The wait time for sale was measured in weeks for each one. Buy one that has a following, keep it up and shiny, price it right and voila.

sunchaser said:

I sold 3 different SeaRays over the years. The wait time for sale was measured in weeks for each one. Buy one that has a following, keep it up and shiny, price it right and voila.

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I class Searays in with big ski boats and gin palaces not Trawlers what this forum was once all about

This forum was never all about trawlers. Look closely and you will notice that the founder of the Forum does not have one. Some come closer than others, but the Forum is about a lifestyle. The vehicle or vessel to achieve that lifestyle can vary widely.

BandB said:

This forum was never all about trawlers. Look closely and you will notice that the founder of the Forum does not have one. Some come closer than others, but the Forum is about a lifestyle. The vehicle or vessel to achieve that lifestyle can vary widely.

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Not my or others interpretation but ----------

gaston said:

Not my or others interpretation but ----------

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Not interpretation, just fact. A mixture of boats from day one. For every KK or Nordhavn, a Carver or Bayliner or Mainship or Grand Banks. You obviously don't like it, but that doesn't change it.

gaston said:

I class Searays in with big ski boats and gin palaces

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Boy those were fun times. Now mother time has relegated me to the slow lane, at least as far as water skiing, gin intake and late night revelry.

I actually prefer fairly slow planing boats.

BandB are you saying the SeaRay “lifestyle” is part of trawlering?

Wherever the word lifestyle is used on TF I consider it to mean boatstyle.

And going 15 to 20 knots is not TF boatstyle.

Nomad Willy said:

I actually prefer fairly slow planing boats.

BandB are you saying the SeaRay “lifestyle” is part of trawlering?

Wherever the word lifestyle is used on TF I consider it to mean boatstyle.

And going 15 to 20 knots is not TF boatstyle.

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I'm saying simply that SeaRay's may well suit the OP's purposes and fit their needs. Does it really matter if he chooses to do the loop at 7 knots or at 12 knots or 15 knots? There are all types of SeaRay's built over the years too and many out there running slow more than fast.

Going 15 to 20 knots may not be Nomad Willy boatstyle but there are a lot of members here who have that capability. Just start down the list of boats.

kthoennes said:

Yep, no right answer, all depends... And I prefer gas simply because I know gas engines best, ever since I replaced the heads on my 1974 Chevy Nova SS in high school. Diesel engines are exotic foreign objects to me. And they clatter. And then there's the whole glow plug thing, there's all that bleeding I keep hearing about, and then cooties grow in the fuel tanks. And apparently you can feed those things fuel made from McDonald's french fry oil. I don't know how you guys deal with all that weirdness.

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Diesel engines are actually simpler than gasoline engines. No spark plugs or wires, no distributer, etc. Mine doesn't have glow plugs but that's not complicated.

Basically, fuel goes in and they run. You have to change the oil and filters but that's pretty much the only routine maintenance required.

aboatman said:

You have to change the oil and filters but that's pretty much the only routine maintenance required.

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Don't forget the cooling systems, hoses, exhaust runs, electric connections, batteries, after coolers and zincs. Sadly, many do it would seem.

BandB,
Perhaps I should have said .. going 15-20 knots is not the essence of TF.

It’s out of step or not mainstream. Also ran.

Nomad Willy said:

BandB,
Perhaps I should have said .. going 15-20 knots is not the essence of TF.

It’s out of step or not mainstream. Also ran.

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Wifey B: Well, just for you I started a poll. http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/wot-my-primary-boat-36478.html

Nomad Willy said:

BandB,
Perhaps I should have said .. going 15-20 knots is not the essence of TF.

It’s out of step or not mainstream. Also ran.

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I would agree most don't run that speed. However, I don't believe that the essence of TF is speed based. I think that it's far beyond the rate of speed at which one cruises.

I think that TF is not about any one thing, I think that it is about enjoying the boating lifestyle. Some of us live on-board full time, others part time. Some of us have boats that only go hull speed, others that can top 25K. But all of us follow TF for the knowledge that we can gain, and the ability to see how other people handle the daily things that surround being around boats.

mramoo said:

I think that TF is not about any one thing, I think that it is about enjoying the boating lifestyle. Some of us live on-board full time, others part time. Some of us have boats that only go hull speed, others that can top 25K. But all of us follow TF for the knowledge that we can gain, and the ability to see how other people handle the daily things that surround being around boats.

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I agree. That's the essence of it. Some topics apply to a broad cross section of people here. Others only a few.

I am as old (boating years) and traditional as anyone here....

But trawlering at 6 or 16 knots ( maybe even 26 or 36) with the intention of enjoying the trip, the destination, anchoring and boats in general is the yardstick, not a bunch of single minded opinions.

kenk said:

There is no way that Bayliner will go 250 miles on 102 gallons of gas.

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It will go 147 miles at 6.4 knots on the stock fuel tank.
156 miles at 23 knots.

poczatek said:

The diesel is designed to have much more longevity. The cost of diesel should always be lower and yes, gasoline is more explosive that diesel fuel; but both are of course flammable. And the value of the boat is increased with diesel power. IMHO

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“but both are of course flammable”
Gasoline is Highly Flammable. Diesel Fuel is Combustible. If you toss a match into a bucket of diesel nothing would happen but if you tossed a match into a bucket of Gasoline it’d be a different story.

Pura Vida said:

“but both are of course flammable”
Gasoline is Highly Flammable. Diesel Fuel is Combustible. If you toss a match into a bucket of diesel nothing would happen but if you tossed a match into a bucket of Gasoline it’d be a different story.

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Heat that diesel up and it will burn with a match. I do agree diesel is generally assumed safer.

Be aware of diesel refueling static charge risks | American Agriculturist

What's the risk
While diesel fuel isn't as combustible as gasoline, it's nearly so. When static electricity discharge occurs with combustible vapors present, a fire or explosion may result while you're fueling your vehicle or equipment.

Any fire or explosion would cause flaming fuel to come back out the filler neck onto the person fueling the equipment. This has happened, with tragic results. So make sure your entire system is properly grounded and bonded.

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https://www.kendrickoil.com/what-is-the-flashpoint-of-diesel-fuel/

The flashpoint of diesel fuel
The flashpoint of any liquid is the lowest temperature at which it will produce sufficient vapor to produce a flammable mixture in the air. The lower the flashpoint temperature, the easier it is to ignite the air if an ignition source is present. The higher the flashpoint, the safer the material is to handle.

The flashpoint of diesel fuel depends on what kind of fuel it is. The most common diesel used on the road today is known as #2 diesel. According to a Material Safety Data Sheet published by ConocoPhillips, the flashpoint of diesel fuel is between 125 and 180 degrees Fahrenheit (52 to 82 degrees Celsius). The flashpoint of any liquid can change as the pressure in the air around it changes.

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