Mmsi

I don't like the "Warning" threads but I thought it might be a good idea to post my recent experience:

I'm getting ready to order an AIS transceiver and in the USA, it's a requirement that they be programmed by the dealer before delivery. There's a form to fill out so instead of driving to the marina to get my MMSI number, I decided to just look it up on myboatus.com.

Well, I found the number alright but I noticed that in the database it was listed as "cancelled". That didn't seem right so I fired off a polite email stating that I hadn't cancelled my number and asking for them to reinstate it.

I got an email today indicating that they had made my number active but they also showed the history. It seems my MMSI number had been cancelled in 2009, just one year after I had applied for it. So for all these years I had a "dead" MMSI number in my VHF.

I'm apparently good to go now but I suggest checking from time to time to see if your number is valid.

did you get yours through the FCC or BoatUS or Sea Tow.....?

For those reading who may not have been through MMSI discussions, there are two ways to obtain an MMSI, one is through the FCC with a ship station license, the other is via Boat/US or other service. If you plan to travel outside the US, be aware that it may be better to go the FCC route. Here's an explanation from the Boat/US site:

BoatUS MMSI numbers are coded for recreational vessels cruising in U.S. waters only not otherwise required to be licensed; the registrations are downloaded into the U.S. Coast Guard Search & Rescue Database (MISLE) only. FCC-assigned MMSI numbers are coded for International Waters and go into the International Search & Rescue Database (ITU). In order to be accepted into the ITU database, any FCC assigned MMSI must end in zero. This is why the BoatUS MMSI number cannot be re-used when later applying for an FCC License for international cruising.

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We went the "official" FCC route when we got ours. A little complex but not too bad (our annual taxes are far more complicated and time consuming). Much more useful and worth the time in my opinion. Someday we expect to drop the boat into Lake Superior in Duluth and do Georgian Bay on our way to salt water and the outside world, so we wanted to be prepared for Canadian waters. I have seen conflicting information about whether the BoatUS-issued numbers work in Canada but I figured why take the chance. I do remember the FCC station license certificate and paperwork came in the mail at lightening speed, a week or two after filing, unlike the boat documentation from the Nat'l Vessel Doc Center which took 6-8 months at the time.

I was able to program my MMSI into the ICOM 500 I purchased last year. I did get the MMSI through BOATUS. I’ll regret that because I do plan on going foreign one day. I guess I’ll have to send it back to the factory to get it reprogrammed when I get a FCC license.

I managed to get an MMSI number transferred from a deceased prior owner to a non-profit to which the boat was donated. I was fortunate it was through BoatUS and there's no chance of going outside US waters. They were very helpful.

That said, if it were my money I'd probably buy a new radio before sending one in for re-programming. I'd think the gain in functionality with a new unit would be worth the difference between the cost of new vs. shipping it back and forth.

Surface Interval said:

I was able to program my MMSI into the ICOM 500 I purchased last year. I did get the MMSI through BOATUS. I’ll regret that because I do plan on going foreign one day. I guess I’ll have to send it back to the factory to get it reprogrammed when I get a FCC license.

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Don't know if a 500 is the same, but I was able to change the MMSI programmed into my Icom 504.

ICOM allows 1 edit after initial input. Garmin allows zero.
DCS is a great idea but overly complex and poorly implemented.
I would not buy a radio that forced me to send it back to the mfr if I made an error inputting a 9 digit number. GPS device mfr's can't agree on wiring color codes so hooking up gps info to a vhf is a challenge.

I suspect day boaters will continue to use 16 and trawlers will continue to suffer through the process.

CaptTom said:

I managed to get an MMSI number transferred from a deceased prior owner to a non-profit to which the boat was donated. I was fortunate it was through BoatUS and there's no chance of going outside US waters. They were very helpful.

That said, if it were my money I'd probably buy a new radio before sending one in for re-programming. I'd think the gain in functionality with a new unit would be worth the difference between the cost of new vs. shipping it back and forth.

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When I bought my boat, the PO had used up all the MMSI programing attempts. Standard Horizon told me to send it to them. They cleared the memory and sent it back pre-paid. My only cost was shipping it to them.

At that time it was about nine years old and there was no new functionality available.

aboatman said:

When I bought my boat, the PO had used up all the MMSI programing attempts. Standard Horizon told me to send it to them. They cleared the memory and sent it back pre-paid. My only cost was shipping it to them.

At that time it was about nine years old and there was no new functionality available.

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That says a lot for Standard Horizon. I have no idea what the cost/protocol is with other manufacturers but that sounds reasonable. When we had the battery changed out on our EPIB, $270 about half the cost of a new unit. I could have bought the batteries locally for a lot cheaper and done it my self but what if? Still a rip off imho.

As annoying as it is, I can see why "the authorities" don't want people loading their own DSC or MMSI information into VHF radios or AIS units for that matter. Imagine the scamming or spoofing that could occur -- I could disguise my tiny little recreational boat as the Exxon Valdez, or if I'm a North Korean tanker captain I could reflag my boat as anything I wanted and obscure the global tracking.

Anyway, I know we're talking about VHF radios and not AIS units here, but as I recall they work in similar ways when it comes to initial programming restrictions. When we bought our AIS unit (an Em-Trak B100, used, on eBay) we contacted West Marine which was the designated servicer or original retailer on that unit. After I supplied all the required info, a support techie from West Marine emailed me a little subroutine or .exe or .bat file or whatever that magically flashed the new information into the AIS unit. Happily we didn't have to send the actual unit itself anywhere, just did it at home with my laptop and the unit's USB connection. Maybe some radios allow the same thing, if the vendor is willing to email the execution file to you.

you CAN load your own MMSI into a radio, at least my new radio of 2 years ago you could.

Some radios you could do it 2X before having to ship it back, others only once.

Users are permitted to program VHFs (one or two times before a factory reset), but not AIS transmitters, which I understand the OP to have been referring.

For Class B AIS devices sold in the US, the FCC requires that they be programmed by the dealer or manufacturer. This is to ensure complete and accurate info. I though it a nuisance until I spent more time in Canadian waters, and saw the plethora of Canadian vessels with missing, incomplete, an inaccurate AIS data. It made me appreciate the US regulation, though it's unfortunate it's needed.

Yes but my point is, it may be worth people's time to make sure their MMSI number is still active and to make any necessary updates like addresses or phone numbers.

I didn't have any incidents between 2009 and now but if I had and my number was listed as "cancelled", I wonder what would have happened (or not happened).

twistedtree said:

For Class B AIS devices sold in the US, the FCC requires that they be programmed by the dealer or manufacturer. This is to ensure complete and accurate info. I though it a nuisance until I spent more time in Canadian waters, and saw the plethora of Canadian vessels with missing, incomplete, an inaccurate AIS data. It made me appreciate the US regulation, though it's unfortunate it's needed.

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Sadly, you are correct. I'm continually amazed at how many 35-40 meter boats I see on AIS, but when they pass me they look like 35-40 FOOT boats. Obviously not everyone bothers to read the manual. Or the screen.

But it's not just class B. I see lots of Class A signals from ships underway which are visibly tied up, and vice-versa. Sometimes the destination port is the port they just left, or the one they left days ago.

Not sure you can regulate away stupidity or laziness.

Since the AIS on Sonas was programmed when I bought her, but with an MMSI registered via Boat US, this only covers US Waters. Rather than sending it back, it I contacted the previous owners and had them transfer that MMSI to me. I then applied for a second MMSI from the FCC that I have programmed into my two radios, which still had an open capability to do so. This covers radio use when in foreign waters.

So I have two MMSIs. I did some research before deciding on this and there is absolutely nothing against using two MMSIs so long as the ownership and other boat information is accurate.

CaptTom said:

But it's not just class B. I see lots of Class A signals from ships underway which are visibly tied up, and vice-versa. Sometimes the destination port is the port they just left, or the one they left days ago.

Not sure you can regulate away stupidity or laziness.

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That's the so-called "voyage data" for Class A, and something that doesn't exist for Class B. The voyage data needs to be manually updated every time your status changes. When you dock, anchor, weight anchor, etc. Not to mention the destination and ETA.

I always leave my destination as a blank. At least then it's not misleading. Same with ETA. And I confess to forgetting to update the underway/anchored/moored status from time to time. But I remember probably 90% of the time.

menzies said:

Since the AIS on Sonas was programmed when I bought her, but with an MMSI registered via Boat US, this only covers US Waters. Rather than sending it back, it I contacted the previous owners and had them transfer that MMSI to me. I then applied for a second MMSI from the FCC that I have programmed into my two radios, which still had an open capability to do so. This covers radio use when in foreign waters.

So I have two MMSIs. I did some research before deciding on this and there is absolutely nothing against using two MMSIs so long as the ownership and other boat information is accurate.

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Not sure how rescue info would be obtained if in the Bahamas and you hit only a radio that was programmed with a BoatUS MMSI.

psneeld said:

Not sure how rescue info would be obtained if in the Bahamas and you hit only a radio that was programmed with a BoatUS MMSI.

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BoatUS MMSI is in the AIS. The two radios have the FCC MMSI.

So just to be clear, I can get a MMSI from the FCC and have one number in both the Fixed VHF and my new handheld VHF. Correct?

And your ASI etc. Yes.

A handheld VHF transceiver with DSC and an integral global navigation satellite system (e.g. GPS) not intended for dedicated use on a particular ship (e.g. a diver’s radio) should be assigned a unique 9-digit number in the format 81M2I3D4X5X6X7X8X9. While currently means do not exist within the U.S. to assign such identities, the Coast Guard has been in discussions with the Federal communications Commission and others on implementing them.

In the interim, VHF handhelds used in the United States should use the MMSI assigned to the ship to which the handheld is primarily associated, even if another radio on that ship uses the same MMSI. Non-commercial users of VHF handhelds not primarily associated with any single ship may use an MMSI provided by an organization such as BOAT US, SEA TOW and U.S. Power Squadron (see above). VHF handhelds should not be used ashore absent FCC or NTIA authorization allowing such use.

And you get if through the FCC if you are not a Federal user. The NTIA if you are a Federal User.

[Do not get through BoatUS if you are leaving the US]

Another linked point. You can have more than one so long as you maintain all the information accurately.

When I got Sonas the AIS was already programmed with an FCC MMSI. This would have to be taken out and sent back to the manufacturer to have changed. So I had the previous owners transfer that to me.

I already had one for the radios.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtmmsi

MMSI # is assigned to the vessel not the device.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtmmsi

MMSI Overview

Maritime Mobile Service Identities (MMSIs) are nine digit numbers used by maritime digital selective calling (DSC), automatic identification systems (AIS) and certain other equipment to uniquely identify a ship or a coast radio station. MMSIs are regulated and managed internationally by the International Telecommunications Union in Geneva, Switzerland, just as radio call signs are regulated. The MMSI format and use is documented in Article 19 of the ITU Radio Regulations and ITU-R Recommendation M.585-6, available from the ITU.

From FCC release September 1, 2016..... permitting general handheld use ashore....

27. We agree with commenters that the public interest will be served by allowing the use of
portable VHF radios ashore, so long as it is limited to enhancing the usefulness of marine VHF radios
without negatively affecting maritime communications. Such limited onshore use will promote flexibility
in the use of marine radio equipment in a manner that furthers maritime safety by encouraging more boaters
to a carry a VHF radio. Specifically, as suggested by ACR, we will permit use of portable marine VHF
radios only in areas adjacent to the water, such as docks and beaches.86
In addition, as suggested by
RTCM, and consistent with our requirements for offshore use, onshore communications using such radios
must relate to the operational and business needs of the associated vessel,87 and must be limited to the
minimum practicable transmission time.88
We amend Section 80.115 accordingly.89
We caution
operators that the Commission’s Enforcement Bureau will continue to investigate complaints against
operators who improperly use marine VHF radios, particularly any violation that concerns unauthorized
transmissions on 156.800 MHz (VHF Channel 16).

Attempting to get back to the original point of this thread...

How did your MMSI get cancelled? I did not think that they had an expiration date, or that they had to be renewed. Am I wrong?

denverd0n said:

Attempting to get back to the original point of this thread...

How did your MMSI get cancelled? I did not think that they had an expiration date, or that they had to be renewed. Am I wrong?

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I read that he has never had one, and that this will be his first.

aboatman said:

...I found the number alright but I noticed that in the database it was listed as "cancelled".

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Sounds to me like the OP had a number, and somehow it got cancelled. I don't understand how it could have gotten cancelled. Anyone?

denverd0n said:

Sounds to me like the OP had a number, and somehow it got cancelled. I don't understand how it could have gotten cancelled. Anyone?

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Failure to pay renewal fee?

denverd0n said:

Sounds to me like the OP had a number, and somehow it got cancelled. I don't understand how it could have gotten cancelled. Anyone?

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Sorry, I was responding to #21.

dhmeissner said:

so just to be clear, i can get a mmsi from the fcc and have one number in both the fixed vhf and my new handheld vhf. Correct?

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correct