Cat diesel??

Can anyone tell me the pro's and con's of a 325 HP Cat in a 36ft Island Gypsy. Is that over power, way to much fuel consumption even at idle or just plain rediculus much engine.

Peter

you can never have to much power. Just not enough power.

swampu wrote:
you can never have to much power. Just not enough power.

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Ditto*

is it even feasible that the boat builder would have installed a V8 325 diesel Cat in a 36 ft boat. I know they put a 225 Cummins into the 1990+ Albins, but an additional 100hp?
Peter

I just checked the model number of the CAT engine, 3208TA = 425hp
That is a lot of horse in a boat to my sailboat way of thinking.

Depends on the hull.

A displacement hull will need X number of horses to move the boat at hull speed. The best is about 75% of total H.P. Just to keep the diesel loaded. More H.P. you are just plowing water.

If she will plane you need the horses to find the sweet spot for a crusing speed.

It is always nice to have Xtra power when you need it.

SD

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In a past life when I was repairing engines. A lot of the guys in my area had trouble with the 425 hp version of the 3208 Cat breaking crankshafts. The 355 and 375 hp versions were really tough, but the 425/435 hp not so much. Just my limited experience.

Marsh Rat wrote:*A lot of the guys in my area had trouble with the 425 hp version of the 3208 Cat breaking crankshafts. The 355 and 375 hp versions were really tough, but the 425/435 hp not so much. Just my limited experience.

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* * * * I agreed with* the 3208 (325 hp)* in the initial thread posting. My experience with 3208s has been with the 375 hp model. (I have had 2 different sets) I do agree, however, documented problems with the 425 version have crossed my path.


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Wednesday 28th of September 2011 11:16:43 AM

Get the serial number for that 3208 engine and check with CAT to find out the horsepower. That engine, naturally aspirated, is only 210 hp and there were many versions with different horsepower up to 435. The 3208 does not have cylinder sleeves so is more expensive to rebuild, but CAT built 35,000 of them because they ran so well in different versions.

I'm looking at an 88 Island Gypsy 36 with this engine in it. It has 1400 hours on the Hobbs. For a diesel that should be low hours, but for one with crank shaft problems, that could spell big trouble down the road. Wish they had put the 225HP Cummins in the thing.

something tells me she will not be very fuel friendly at any speed that loads the engine.

"something tells me she will not be very fuel friendly at any speed that loads the engine."

That's why it is best to have the engine selected by the boats designer ,

rather than the sales dept "bigger is better ( a HUGE LIE)

or the purchasing dept , "cheap is king. "

The same can be said for tranny choices on the engine , there are a few to avoid.

The biggest lie is the Oxymoron , "Fast Trawler,"

where a huge engine is stuffed in to get over 10K-13K sometime in the boats life , but she is displacement cruised 99.99% of the time with a slobbering underloaded fuelish expensive monster.


-- Edited by FF on Thursday 29th of September 2011 05:01:33 AM

If the price was right and the boat was otherwise very clean, would you steer away from a Island Gypsy with the 425 HP 3208 TA motor or would it still be a potential buy at $50,000. I have loked at a trawler for a couple of years and every one had issues which would turn the boat into a project boat.

Well, Walt and I both have 330 hp engines in our 32's and, although a 220hp might be a more appropriate size for the boats, neither one of us is complaining about excessive fuel burn or too much power. If the Cat is otherwise a reliable engine it would not be a deal breaker for me if the boat is good as well.

dwhatty wrote:*If the Cat is otherwise a reliable engine it would not be a deal breaker for me if the boat is good as well.

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****** I agree!

As somebody mentioned, I will get the engine serial # and see which HP rating the engine is. I wonder if the 3208TA can also be a smaller engine other than the 425. At any rate I will get the oil analyzed as well as the trans oil for potential problems.
I found a boat in Cleveland. An Albin 36. Not bad for the $$ but to get it trucked to Grand Haven, MI, I would have to have the fly bridge taken of and all of it cost a lot of money. That one had a Cummins 225 Turbo engine in it and I feel pretty good about Cummins.

Why buy the bastard as in Cadillac engine in a Nash Rambler when you want a Plymouth 6. There are SOOO many boats out there just go find the right boat. most are $40 to $80k. And you suspect or know that 425/IG32 isn't right or you would'nt have asked. And as far as power is concerned look more at the cubic inch displacement than the hp. Most IG 32s have 120 Lehman power and that's about right for the boat. Just go get one. And most are priced in that ball park or just above. I looked at several last winter. Nice boats.

Most times the basic block will be set up in a variety of ways , on the same basic engine.

If you look on the mfg site there will be usually 4 ratings , from 24/7 to 1 min to get up on the plane.

Usually if the engine is required to produce less than the tough 24/7 rating , the engine will be fine , no matter how silly the peak max pleasure boat rating is.

The problem is things like turboes cost bucks and may force the bottom RPM to be above trawler crawler requirements.

An engine peak rated at 400hp , but usually rated 225hp in cruiser trim , and required to produce 60hp at 1200 -1500 will not break anything.

How it will wear out is a different question , but even 2/3 life loss is still far beyond what most pleasure boaters will ever require.

"What me worry " is a good concept for a trawler crawler or Looper.

From what I understand, the engine was selected by the manufacturer and is not a retro fit. Presently has 1100 hours on the Hobbs meter. My concerne is the large power and having to run at less than optimum RPM. So I'm looking for somebody that has some experience with a 36ft boat in the 26000lb displacement powered by that big an engine and how the long gevity for that type engine is.

I have had diesel engines in my cars for the past 30+ years and never had any real problems. I don't want to start my power boating life with any engine problems that are avoidable.

From the little research I just did, the 325 hp version is not aftercooled. If that is the case, you won't hurt the enigne by loafing it.

The raw water after cooled engines are the ones that can have issues if you don't load them up because the incomming air charge is so cold leading to incomplete combustion, cold coolant temps, etc.

I repowered my old Mainship 34 with a 270 hp enigne (Cummins 6BTA) that was jacket water aftercooled (antifreeze cooled) *and it ran fine, always stayed at temp (coolant and EGT) even when loafing at 1400 rpm (displacement mode). The extra power was a great asset, esp when trying to make Block I on a friday evening before the sun set.

PLUS economy was far superior to the original oem 160 hp engine.

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Going to have a real long look at the engines serial number and get all the info on that I can get. I have a hard time believing the 36ft boat would be a load on the 325hp engine. But I'll find all that out on Saturday. Were would I find the engine serial # anyhow. I'm getting a bit old to crawling around a bilge looking for stuff.
Peter

I used to deliver a 46' Whiticar Sportfish from FL to VA each spring and back in the fall. It had the 3208TA/375 hp I never had a problem with the engines. On the last run before the owner re-powered with John Deere's the engines had a little over 10,000 hrs. At cruise speed around 2300 RPM's they burned around 28 gals an hour combined.
On my owned boat 43' Pearson. I bought it with 340 Chrysler's (gas). They were rated at 240 hp. When I re-powered I put Volvo TAMD41's in rated at 200 hp. I find that I cruise around most of the time at 1800 - 2000 RPM's and that gets me 8.5 to 9.5 kts depending on tide, wind etc. The turbos don't really spool up until 2500 or so. I can get a 15 kt cruise if I push them up to 3500 they are rated for 3800.
I hind sight I wish I had put in the lower rated natural engines and turned them a little more.
With the current set up when we cruise around at displacement speeds for a couple of days I will usually bump her up on plane for 30 minutes to an hour coming home. It will smoke for a few minutes as I power up.
As has been said here already, with the couple of hundred hours a year I get to put on my boat it probably won't hurt a thing as long as I own the boat. But I feel like I over powered and would have been more efficient with smaller engines.

Of course I have a friend that's a Volvo dealer and I got a deal on the engines.

i have those 3208 on my boat, as many have informed that model comes in a variety of configurations.
mine are 260hp turbo. i find them very reliable.. and by no means overpowered.
a friend has the 325 hp in the same boat as mine (38 ft californian), and his boat really gets up and goes.
sure it burns fuel, but it all depends how much throttle you apply.

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btw, boatdiesel website is a great resource for research etc.


-- Edited by Per on Friday 30th of September 2011 11:09:28 AM

Cat's drink fuel. When I worked for Cat, that was the biggest complaint. However, they are pretty stout and with proper maintenence they should last to your expectations. That means running the head, changing the oil and all the other Cat recommended schedule items at the proper intervals. They are high maintenance in my experience, but if cared for they will perform and last a long time.

That maintenance as specified by Cat could be a bit tricky. As far as I know there are no manuals for the engine on the boat. What do you mean when you say, "That means running the head,". Not familiar with that term.

Manuals should be available from Cat even if they are missing from the boat should you pursue that boat.

*Just have the model number and year and they should be able to match you up.