Fog

We are currently in Southport and the fog is thick tonight. If the fog is bad in the morning, how do we know if we should go or stay? I assume even with thick fog, we could see a little and we only cruise at 8 kts.

What do we need to know about cruising in fog?

Dont hit anything.

If you arent good with radar, sit until the fog is thin enough to see 1/4 mile and is forecast only to get better.

No reason to run a risk unless you’re on a schedule. Fog is a good excuse to stay put.

A rule I've long had and not just on this, "If in doubt, don't." When you doubt whether you should go, what typically is happening is that you know deep down you shouldn't, but wish you could and hoping someone will say to go. If you're not comfortable with something, then even if others might do it, you shouldn't. We all have different levels of comfort.

I would not start out in the fog, getting caught out is another situation. We got caught out in fog for about 24 hours coming down the west coast. We were using our radar and really paying attention to it. At times we could not even see the flag on the bow. Fog would come and go in density. It opened up for a moment and there was a whale on the surface directly in front of us. We came really close to hitting it. I had thought that a whale would hear us coming and have been long gone. I use my radar all the times we are underway and work to learn better what the contacts on the display look like in real life in case I ever get fogged in again.

Cruising New England and the Maritimes, you can't really say "don't go in fog" or you never would. We left Halifax last year in almost zero visibility, and that's a busy harbor. We did check in with traffic control and have AIS, so that helped.

We have a routine. When the visibility gets below 1/2 to 1/4 mile or so, we flip on the lights, foghorn and radar, and all eyes are on lookout. Then keep going.

CaptTom said:

Cruising New England and the Maritimes, you can't really say "don't go in fog" or you never would. We left Halifax last year in almost zero visibility, and that's a busy harbor. We did check in with traffic control and have AIS, so that helped.

We have a routine. When the visibility gets below 1/2 to 1/4 mile or so, we flip on the lights, foghorn and radar, and all eyes are on lookout. Then keep going.

Click to expand...

The OP doesn't sound ready to cruise that area. Maybe one day he will feel ready.

Question for the day. Lock on river. Do you expect more fog above the lock or below it or could equally be either way?

Eddie said:

We are currently in Southport and the fog is thick tonight. If the fog is bad in the morning, how do we know if we should go or stay? I assume even with thick fog, we could see a little and we only cruise at 8 kts.

What do we need to know about cruising in fog?

Click to expand...

Wait for the fog to clear. Not sure where you are going next, but you don't want to miss a marker around there. We have seen the Bald Head ferry aground in the Cape Fear.

Thanks everyone. So, what's the definition of lifted? I am sure if we can't see the flag on our bow we are stuck. What about 1/4 mile?

Eddie said:

Thanks everyone. So, what's the definition of lifted? I am sure if we can't see the flag on our bow we are stuck. What about 1/4 mile?

Click to expand...

As others have noted, if you are not good with your radar, it would be best to sit it out. A 1/4 mile vis can turn in to 50 yards vis fairly quickly.

Well if headed south from Southport....a couple hundred yards visibility will keep you in the channel and probably not run into anything till way past Charleston if staying in the ICW. Not much to see beyond a couple hundred feet right, left and in front.

Its about comfort level at this point more so than safety. .....If its going to br stressfull, why push till you feel comfy?

I have been flying or boating in limited vis for about 37 years...and I hate it....but I can do it pretty well. If I dont have to, I generally wont unless it is a super easy run and expexted to lift soon.

We never hesitated to go on our way in very dense fog in otherwise benign weather and sea conditions, on the ICW as well as open ocean and SF Bay, but we had practiced using and understanding the radar very extensively in clear weather. Went slow, sounded the horns appropriately, and in the ICW had Ann on the bow to give us another 20 feet of unrestricted vision. In open ocean, kept on the VHF advising course and position and chatting with other boats regularly. We thought it was fun.

I echo other posts: if you have to ask, you're not ready. This is pleasure boating, no? Why sweat it?

Stay put. It may look good enough to leave the marina, then a mile away the vis can drop to nothing. Then what are you going to do?

If you have a doubt do not go out. We had to wait till 9:00 to leave Beaufort SC today, and then the fog came in heavier. Radar skills were essential. IF you are at Southport MArina, be sure to attend the 6:00 ICW briefing. The ICW took bunch of hits from the hurricanes. Several previously dredged (spring 2017) sections are filled in again. You must have up to date charts. And Garmin charts will not cut it. NOAA and Navionics charts have the new ATON locations. Within an hour or two of leaving Southport you will have to transit Lockwoods Folly and Shallotte Inlet. Both have had big changes this fall. Th MTO list serve has had a long f running series of updates. The SAIL MAgazine Secrets of the ICW Facebook Page has extensive discussions and charts and waypoints where appropriate. Lockwoods, Shallotte ,Browns have been catching a lot of boaters unaware and unprepared. Esther Minim Creek Canal and the stretch past McClellanville have bad spots Isle Of Palms, Dawho, and Ashepoo Coosaw have gotten worse. Be sure to have updated charts. WEare sitting at Isle of hope right now and the fog is rolling in. Looks like Tuesday may be as foggy as Monday was.

Ok, an old fart here. Well, at least an old mariner.

I learned to handle the fog from an even older captain. He taped newspaper over the wheel house windows, stood outside the wheel house and kept me out of trouble while I learned to handle zero visibility. Are you ready to handle zero vis?

Yes, we have better tools than when I was a green kid. But.... do you know the limits of those tools? AIS? Radar? Chart plotter? None of them tell you everything all of the time.

If you don't have to head out in the fog. DON'T! It isn't any fun.

Eddie said:

We are currently in Southport and the fog is thick tonight. If the fog is bad in the morning, how do we know if we should go or stay? I assume even with thick fog, we could see a little and we only cruise at 8 kts.
What do we need to know about cruising in fog?

Click to expand...

NWS has dense fog advisory until 7AM. Coast until 20Mi out. 1/4 mi less visib.
If winds are light and warm moist air continues to move onshore the fog could persist.

Check the Wilmington forecast before moving. It will probably roll back in again late tomorrow afternoon.

Use this as a chance to get a little fog practice. Pick a spot that's a short easy run of 1/2 mile or so. To a fuel dock and back, a lunch spot, whatever. See how it goes. Talk about "what-ifs" beforehand, keep all eyes ( and ears ) on deck, just enough speed to steer, and be willing to turn around if its not what you expected.

If the visibility is less than a mile, I display running lights and make fog signals every couple of minutes when visibility dips below the horn's range (nearly a mile in my case). When not to venture out would depend on the expected boat and water obstacles as well as the terrain and whether visibility was expected to improve or decline. Get used to reading your radar display. If your boat is capable of speed: don't.

Regardless of your comfort level, there will most certainly be someone else out there that is navigating beyond their comfort level who is "sure" they can handle it . . . And that is where the trouble begins, have another cup of coffee, relax, go down below and do some housekeeping in the engine room and wait for the fog to lift.

North Carolina fog on the Pamlico...

BandB said:

A rule I've long had and not just on this, "If in doubt, don't." When you doubt whether you should go, what typically is happening is that you know deep down you shouldn't, but wish you could and hoping someone will say to go. If you're not comfortable with something, then even if others might do it, you shouldn't.

Click to expand...

Nice. It's called trusting your instincts/gut feeling/sixth sense. I've learned that "the little voice inside my head" is always right. 100% of the time. The challenge is in hearing it correctly!

Portage_Bay said:

I learned to handle the fog from an even older captain. He taped newspaper over the wheel house windows, stood outside the wheel house and kept me out of trouble while I learned to handle zero visibility.

Click to expand...

Thanks Portage. One day I will use this to train my daughter.

AIS is not required on pleasure boats, like you and I own. (Yes, I have AIS)
I would recommend if you have AIS, it is turned on so you can tell your insurance company, it was on and working properly.
RADAR is great it is turned on if you understand it and you have adjusted it correctly.
Fog horn and lights, of course.
Gotta remember, things fail at the worse possible time.
Remember to reduce your speed. 1/4 ? How fast are you going? Maybe you should consider a greater distance.
Might want to consider opening up the piot house doors so you can hear better. (not everyone has a fly bridge)
VHF, at least 2, one on 16 and another on a 'known' working channel.
Post your look outs..... one duty, being a look out.
This not the time to be listening to the commercial radio for music or news.

Dont forget, 'tonnage rules.'

Eddie said:

Thanks everyone. So, what's the definition of lifted? I am sure if we can't see the flag on our bow we are stuck. What about 1/4 mile?

Click to expand...

Doesn't speak directly to your original question, nor this one...

But for a learning exercise, turn on your radar while yu're docked in fog and set the distance circle to known objects you can still see in the fog. Then increase the distance setting a bit more, then a bit more after that... to get a feel for how far away things really are, the real visibility distance, etc.

For instance, if known objects are a quarter mile away and you can see them with your Mark II*** eyeballs... you'll be able to see what they look like on the radar display. And you'll see what a quarter mile looks like. Then expand from there...

Now to your original question: hang loose, enjoy another day in Southport.

To the "lifted" question: depends on how well you reckon you can avoid a speeding bozo coming out of the fog and straight at you at X distance. IOW, your comfort range will vary.

FWIW, when we travel in fog or at night, we make it a 2-person watch, and one of us is solely monitoring the radar. Night travel is usually easier, since there's usually a lot that's still actually visible in on way or another.

-Chris

CaptTom said:

...

We have a routine. When the visibility gets below 1/2 to 1/4 mile or so, we flip on the lights, foghorn and radar, and all eyes are on lookout. Then keep going.

Click to expand...

You normally don't cruise with lights or radar?

This is how our delivery trip from Olympia to Seattle started out. Half speed, radar, navionics app (chart plotter), horn, spotter on the bow when it got really low and a more experienced sailor onboard with us.

It was a little nerve racking at first but my IFR flight training kicked in and once we got the hang of it we enjoyed the journey and spotting marks and other boats on radar.

It also made coming out of the fog into a warm sunny day a glorious experience.

I think it's all about comfort level, experience and confidence in your systems and abilities.

Only you can make the go/no-go decision.

I second the training in radar us when things are clear. Block out your view completely but have someone else watching. Practice seeing through radar. Then look and see what you were looking at. The biggest thing is trust. Then regardless of trust, I'm not going to enter a strange inlet and port without vision.

I wonder how an IR camera would do in a fog.
Any hints?

Airstream345 said:

... Half speed, radar, navionics app (chart plotter), horn, spotter on the bow when it got really low and a more experienced sailor onboard with us. ...

Click to expand...

Our horn is too loud for anyone forward of the pilothouse.

I have been looking at the new FLIRs. It hasn't bubbled up to the top of my wish list yet but it will at some point. We do some night running and I think it would be great in fog, but I haven't seen it first hand.

BandB said:

I second the training in radar us when things are clear. ...

Click to expand...

On a clear day I was mystified seeing a radar blip straight ahead but couldn't see any object with the eyeballs. The blip would disappear when approached within 1/8 mile. Eventually realized it was a radar reflector suspended high, presumably for the the benefit of aircraft, for guarding the high-powered electrical lines crossing the strait.