Propane on a Marine Trader 44

Mkeller · Oct 30, 2017

I need to run a new propane line for my 1979 marine trader 44 with the galley down.

The current set up is a copper line that disappears on the port side of the flybridge into the pilot house exterior wall and re-emerges somewhere in the engine room before going to the galley by way of the forward cabin. There's got to be 40 feet of tubing and about 6-7 connections between the tank and the stove.

The galley and stove are forward of the flybridge below decks leaving no direct route to the stove.

Has anyone with a 44 re-engineered the propane system on their 44 and found a good way to route a new line?

Is there a route through the galley ceiling? and then down behind the refrigerator?

Or do I follow the previous owners suggestion and just bring it down the interior salon wall from the flybridge into the engine compartment and through the cabinets to the stove. The exposed hose would be covered with trim.

I'm going to leave the tank in its current position under the flybridge.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

Mike

alormaria · Oct 30, 2017

I brought new hose down the wall in a corner over the stove and covered it with molding. Now I can inspect it any time I want to.

Mkeller · Nov 5, 2017

That doesn't work for me as my galley is down and forward from the helm making the stove 7-8 feet forward from where the line would drop. My analogous route is a 9-10 foot drop from the flybridge through the salon into the engine room and then 7-8 feet under or through cabinets.

As I think about this I have a 15' borescope that I can place on a wire fish to poke around.

koliver · Nov 5, 2017

I think my C&L 44 has the propane tank in the same position as yours, in the flybridge cupboard, port side. The copper propane line exits that locker in the fwd, port corner of the cupboard and follows the window mullion in the fwd port corner, between the fwd port side window and the port front window, entering the stove location from the side of the counter. How it gets to the stove from the window mullion is a mystery I haven't bothered to solve.
There should be no joins in the copper propane line after it leaves the tanks, until it arrives at the stove. Mine has none that are visible. I am surprised you can see yours in the engine room, and that you can identify connections in the line.

I installed a diesel stove when I bought my boat. I put in a day tank, under the desk-like counter in the saloon, with its line dropping into the ER, then entering the galley under the countertop, running fwd past the sinks, finally arriving at the stove location. All of the line remains invisible, so you can use the same route if your propane line gets to the ER from the FB and your can remain invisible. Installation of the chimney exposed the space between the deck above and the ceiling, about 3" of unoccupied airspace. I suspect the propane line goes fwd through this ceiling before dropping to the stove, though I haven't found that line in my boat. There is nowhere to hide behind the fridge. I have cut through the bulkhead behind my fridge, so I know it is only a 1" marine Plywood bulkhead with no place for a 1/2" copper line to hide. There is lots of room behind the fridge, so you could use that space. You would need to come down the back of the top cupboard, then behind the fridge, then out to the stove, but all of that would be exposed.

Why are you replacing the propane feed line? It is a copper, 1/2" line that is fixed in place, can't vibrate or chafe. If it has connections that you can see you will be abe to see their condition. If it doesn't, as it shouldn't, there should be no source of concern.

Dom61 · Nov 6, 2017

Is it even legal to have it under the flybridge cowl I thought it had to be in a sealed locker with a vent

alormaria · Nov 6, 2017

Mine is in a sealed "Trident" propane locker. I located it in the flybridge because it was easy to continue the existing installation. It could have been mounted anywhere.

You could get a new propane locker and mount it outside on the side deck, foredeck or sunken below the side deck. Once you get a weatherproof free standing locker you can do anything you want.

Rufus · Nov 6, 2017

There are no laws or regulations regarding placement of propane bottles and no laws or regulations that say they must be in a sealed canister or compartment. There are ABYC "standards", which are nothing more than recommendations, particularly in regard to old boats that were built before ABYC existed. The bottle on our boat is under the fly bridge cowl, has a raised dam around the mounting area, and has an overboard drain. AOK with three different surveyors and two insurance companies. Coast Guard has no requirements as there is no documented safety problem with these sorts of installations.

Mkeller · Nov 6, 2017

koliver said:
I think my C&L 44 has the propane tank in the same position as yours, in the flybridge cupboard, port side. The copper propane line exits that locker in the fwd, port corner of the cupboard and follows the window mullion in the fwd port corner, between the fwd port side window and the port front window, entering the stove location from the side of the counter. How it gets to the stove from the window mullion is a mystery I haven't bothered to solve.
There should be no joins in the copper propane line after it leaves the tanks, until it arrives at the stove. Mine has none that are visible. I am surprised you can see yours in the engine room, and that you can identify connections in the line.

I installed a diesel stove when I bought my boat. I put in a day tank, under the desk-like counter in the saloon, with its line dropping into the ER, then entering the galley under the countertop, running fwd past the sinks, finally arriving at the stove location. All of the line remains invisible, so you can use the same route if your propane line gets to the ER from the FB and your can remain invisible. Installation of the chimney exposed the space between the deck above and the ceiling, about 3" of unoccupied airspace. I suspect the propane line goes fwd through this ceiling before dropping to the stove, though I haven't found that line in my boat. There is nowhere to hide behind the fridge. I have cut through the bulkhead behind my fridge, so I know it is only a 1" marine Plywood bulkhead with no place for a 1/2" copper line to hide. There is lots of room behind the fridge, so you could use that space. You would need to come down the back of the top cupboard, then behind the fridge, then out to the stove, but all of that would be exposed.

Why are you replacing the propane feed line? It is a copper, 1/2" line that is fixed in place, can't vibrate or chafe. If it has connections that you can see you will be abe to see their condition. If it doesn't, as it shouldn't, there should be no source of concern.

Previous owner said the line was bad and I’d rather not mess with an old line. He also said the valves on the current stove leaked.

I’m sure the current line snakes down the window but I think mine passes behind the port side window. Not sure wear it comes out. On mine it enters the stove from the front cabin. The section in between remains a mystery. It’s a very cluttered section of the engine room.

I’ve had one private recommendation of just send it down the steering/electrical tube. It however is filled with junk wire that I am slowly sorting out.

I’ve got a borescope I’ll use next time I am on the boat in December. I suspect I can run the line down the minimally used port electrical conduit down the Center windshield and through the galley ceiling and drop it down though the cabinet at the right rear corner of the stove. Would require minimal covering if that’s possible.

Anyone following this, I have no desire to bring this 1979 boat up to current abyc recommendations. I will be eliminating probably 4-6 junctions in the current install by running new hose. I will enclose the propane bottles under the flybridge and vent the enclosure through the underside of the flybridge. That’s about 6 feet from any openings.

The install also includes an alarm with two sniffers. One under the stove and one with the propane tank.

BruceK · Nov 6, 2017

Mkeller said:
Previous owner said the line was bad and I’d rather not mess with an old line. He also said the valves on the current stove leaked. ....The install also includes an alarm with two sniffers. One under the stove and one with the propane tank.

If as I think, the valves on the stove are the burner regulators,you will likely find it worthwhile replacing the stove as the valves will be hard to fix. If you get a stove with flame out/propane off, as I assume most are, the sniffers may be discretionary/desirable rather than absolutely essential.
My boat has a valve in the supply line which is accessible in/near the galley, you might want to incorporate one in your new line.
An LPG/Propane fitter might be able to pressure test your existing line. It might be just the stove valves, could save a heap of work if the lines are really ok.

Propane on a Marine Trader 44

Mkeller

Senior Member

alormaria

Guru

Mkeller

Senior Member

koliver

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Dom61

Senior Member

alormaria

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Rufus

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Mkeller

Senior Member

BruceK

Moderator Emeritus

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