Cruising wo a windlass
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HopCar
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I've never used one but I was on a friends boat in a fishing tournament, moving quickly between spots. He never brought the anchor aboard. When he wanted to move, he'd just drag the anchor to the surface with the ball and keep going. Anchor and ball would just follow in the wake. He must have had it rigged so the anchor wouldn't hang in the ring because as soon as he stopped the boat, the anchor would slide out of the ring and head for the bottom.
caltexflanc
Guru
The ball technique is great but I've only seen it used on smaller boats with smallish anchors (including grapnel types) fishing in really deep water with very short lengths of chain and a lot of rope rode. Not sure how it would work on larger heavier ground tackle. You still have to pull the rode in manually.
psneeld
Guru
The offshore big sportfish guys use them but again with ligjt ground tackle.
I would use it on a medium sized fortress with a few feet of chain...not sure if my boat is fast enough to make it work...
I would use it on a medium sized fortress with a few feet of chain...not sure if my boat is fast enough to make it work...
caltexflanc
Guru
That's another factor, but I've seen it work "OK" at fairly slow speed.
AKDoug
Guru
It's pretty much the standard up here for charter boats, but again they are "fast". I assumed that my 7 knot trawler wouldn't do it, but have never tried. That was the only method I used with my last boat, never even considered a windlass.
I see boats with heavily damaged anchors from having been "ripped out of the bottom" because the anchor ball was too small to give enough lift to get the anchor moving "up" instead of just tearing it out. It takes a big enough buoy and anchoring at short scope to make it work, the heavy currents from our tides make the speed of the pull an advantage over a windlass.
I see boats with heavily damaged anchors from having been "ripped out of the bottom" because the anchor ball was too small to give enough lift to get the anchor moving "up" instead of just tearing it out. It takes a big enough buoy and anchoring at short scope to make it work, the heavy currents from our tides make the speed of the pull an advantage over a windlass.
AKDoug
Guru
AKDoug,
That’s what Chapman’s said.
Now I only have 4’ of chain but it’s 5/8” chain as heavy as 15’ of 1/4” chain. About that it’s a small compromise. Consider this a correction to the above response to Bruce. I use the much heavier chain to be able to raise the anchor almost to the surface of the water with the capstan so it’s very easy to pull. You guys are right I could “mend my ways” by having 15’ of chain but that would weigh the same as the short heavy chain. But to “mend my ways” I’d need 50’ of 1/4” chain but then I’ need to pull 50’ of rode.
So to some small degree I am compromising my rode. But I do use an anchor proven by myself in 50+ knot gales (XYZ) when there is serious wind in the marine forecast. Otherwise I usually use one of my experimental anchors. A new one is coming up soon.[/QUOTE]
So the latest issue of PassageMaker is out, and Calder says a chain should "ideally" be the length of the boat. That the additional weight of the chain will help the anchor shank to drop so it sets better, and that the chain will provide better protection against abrasion from the bottom.
I always love to read something that verifies my experience and opinion from a reputable source...
That’s what Chapman’s said.
Now I only have 4’ of chain but it’s 5/8” chain as heavy as 15’ of 1/4” chain. About that it’s a small compromise. Consider this a correction to the above response to Bruce. I use the much heavier chain to be able to raise the anchor almost to the surface of the water with the capstan so it’s very easy to pull. You guys are right I could “mend my ways” by having 15’ of chain but that would weigh the same as the short heavy chain. But to “mend my ways” I’d need 50’ of 1/4” chain but then I’ need to pull 50’ of rode.
So to some small degree I am compromising my rode. But I do use an anchor proven by myself in 50+ knot gales (XYZ) when there is serious wind in the marine forecast. Otherwise I usually use one of my experimental anchors. A new one is coming up soon.[/QUOTE]
So the latest issue of PassageMaker is out, and Calder says a chain should "ideally" be the length of the boat. That the additional weight of the chain will help the anchor shank to drop so it sets better, and that the chain will provide better protection against abrasion from the bottom.
I always love to read something that verifies my experience and opinion from a reputable source...
Al
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Now this is an interesting statement and one never though of!! As my windless is of the model that has no provision for chain, the operator has to grasp and heave the chain over the roller. Having a short 4 foot 5/8 section achieving the same effect as the 20' 1/4" is one that I am going to address immeditely this winter season. Thanks AK
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Al-Ketchikan
Nomad Willy
Guru
AKDoug wrote;
“So the latest issue of PassageMaker is out, and Calder says a chain should "ideally" be the length of the boat. That the additional weight of the chain will help the anchor shank to drop so it sets better”
That’s always been my opnion that the chain’s biggest benefit is helping the anchor set. And anchors vary in their need for chain to that end.
Edit;
Al I’ve been using 4’ of 3/8 chain. When my shoulder heals better I’ll consider 5/8. If you think about it please weigh it. I may have 1/2 on there now .. not sure.
“So the latest issue of PassageMaker is out, and Calder says a chain should "ideally" be the length of the boat. That the additional weight of the chain will help the anchor shank to drop so it sets better”
That’s always been my opnion that the chain’s biggest benefit is helping the anchor set. And anchors vary in their need for chain to that end.
Edit;
Al I’ve been using 4’ of 3/8 chain. When my shoulder heals better I’ll consider 5/8. If you think about it please weigh it. I may have 1/2 on there now .. not sure.
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AKDoug
Guru
Not intending to jerk your chain or anything, but I would choose a longer smaller diameter chain over a short heavy one to achieve the weight I was looking for (all other considerations being the same).
Practical Sailor (yeah, I know) had a double set of articles on setting anchors by backing on them (jerking them into the bottom) and on short scope anchoring. With a depth to rode ratio of 3:1 with a longer chain the effective scope was 10:1, of course the conditions under which the anchor is set in would have everything to do with how well it held.
They measured scope at the point where the rode entered the seabed, not the depth to length (of line put in the water). I anchor short scope a lot due to depth and limited anchorage size, so it was a reassuring way to see scope measured. I am usually anchored to sleep, and under calm conditions with light current.
Practical Sailor (yeah, I know) had a double set of articles on setting anchors by backing on them (jerking them into the bottom) and on short scope anchoring. With a depth to rode ratio of 3:1 with a longer chain the effective scope was 10:1, of course the conditions under which the anchor is set in would have everything to do with how well it held.
They measured scope at the point where the rode entered the seabed, not the depth to length (of line put in the water). I anchor short scope a lot due to depth and limited anchorage size, so it was a reassuring way to see scope measured. I am usually anchored to sleep, and under calm conditions with light current.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Doug,
I use the extra heavy chain so I can pull the anchor up to the waters surface w the line on the capstan drum. Can’t use chain there. If I used what is usually used for my boat it would be 1/4” HT. The difference in pulling the longer smaller chain rode is probably just about the same as the short and heavy. Just more pulling w my arms. But is it?
My first pull w the long light chain will require the same tension as the short heavy chain. But the pulls thereafter it should decrease till when the anchor is at the waters surface it will be easy. Perhaps I should try it.
Also as per a discussion years ago the best place for anchor weight in an anchor rode is not at the end of the rode at the anchor like just about everybody would assume. I did. But it’s about 15-20% of the way up the rode. So the longer chain in my case would be better .. catenary wise. If you had all chain most of the rode would not benefit catenary. But many disagree w that.
I use the extra heavy chain so I can pull the anchor up to the waters surface w the line on the capstan drum. Can’t use chain there. If I used what is usually used for my boat it would be 1/4” HT. The difference in pulling the longer smaller chain rode is probably just about the same as the short and heavy. Just more pulling w my arms. But is it?
My first pull w the long light chain will require the same tension as the short heavy chain. But the pulls thereafter it should decrease till when the anchor is at the waters surface it will be easy. Perhaps I should try it.
Also as per a discussion years ago the best place for anchor weight in an anchor rode is not at the end of the rode at the anchor like just about everybody would assume. I did. But it’s about 15-20% of the way up the rode. So the longer chain in my case would be better .. catenary wise. If you had all chain most of the rode would not benefit catenary. But many disagree w that.
AKDoug
Guru
Indeed the middle of the rode would have the greatest impact on scope, but it would be really awkward to handle chain in the middle of a mixed rode... And you still need abrasion resistance where the rode enters the sea bed.
I think I will stick to 1 1/2 boat lengths of 3/8" at the anchor, and be happy to have a windlass to do my heavy lifting. And extra happy to have a LoFrans that accommodates chain and nylon. It has a capstan on top, but I have never used it. I got it as a consideration for kedging if the need ever came up, and is the reason I have a vertical windlass instead of a horizontal one.
I think I will stick to 1 1/2 boat lengths of 3/8" at the anchor, and be happy to have a windlass to do my heavy lifting. And extra happy to have a LoFrans that accommodates chain and nylon. It has a capstan on top, but I have never used it. I got it as a consideration for kedging if the need ever came up, and is the reason I have a vertical windlass instead of a horizontal one.
Al
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So, all said and done, the convesation seems to lean to the status quo as it pertains to my chain of 25-30 feet 3/8" (I thought it 1/4 but in retrospect, it is 3/8). (Note to Eric, I put three turns on the capstan head, which I believe is the same as your, and pulled the chain holding a bit more tension while allowing the chain to follow. Not a good practice, just was curious to view the result. Back to hand hauling.
Al
Al
Nomad Willy
Guru
Al you pulled chain w the capstan head??
AKDoug
Guru
One further note on how much chain, as I am digging through my masses of paperwork associated with all the crap I have for my boat and trying to thin it down. The Rocna anchor guide recommends at least the length of your vessel in anchor chain.
It makes me wonder how many other anchor manufacturers have a stated preference as to chain length, that we never bother to read when we buy a new anchor since we assume we already know what we're doing? I never saw that guide before and I have had the anchor for 5 seasons...
It makes me wonder how many other anchor manufacturers have a stated preference as to chain length, that we never bother to read when we buy a new anchor since we assume we already know what we're doing? I never saw that guide before and I have had the anchor for 5 seasons...
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Going back to my sailing days, it was just quoted like an golden rule that with mixed rode, one had a length of chain at least as long as the boat. I would still favour that over a shorter length of heavy chain, because if you have to manhandle the last chain part, lighter and smaller links are easier, but also for the added protection against bottom chafe.
