Travel though NY help

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PMF1984

Guru
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
637
Location
United States
Vessel Name
Wanderer
Vessel Make
Pilgrim 40
After many self induced delays Wanderer is off to Jacksonville from Buzzards Bay. After a really pitchy, rolling and yawing trip to Long Island Sound we are spending a few days in Mystic to wait out a storm.

Looking ahead to traveling though NY City, I think there are too many variables for a first timer without some hints.

So some information about my parameters:

Wanderer is a Pilgrim 40, not really an open water boat.

Has a displacement hull, so top speed is 7.5 knots.

I have a favorble tide coming out of the Mystic River going down the eastern end of Long Island Sound

Have to do the Race during daylight hours, and need to make the trip to Manasquan Inlet in fair weather.

The hint I have so far is to follow a tug through Hells Gate as it bumps the refrigerators out of the way and smooths the sea a little

John
 
At 7+ knots you will have no problem.
Just look at the time 1 hour BEFORE the current changes at Ambrose Light, then backup the time to determine what time you MUST leave from Throg's Neck Bridge.

I did the calculations for a friend a few weeks ago. You should have an hour or even two to play with once you are in the Upper Bay. Even leaving an hour after the current has turned (You your favor).

Richard on Dauntless
 
From Mystic going down L I sound you do NOT pass thru "the race" if you are talking the area between Fisher's Island and Long Island.
I think you should plan on stopping in Manhassett Bay for the night before going thru NYC. (I know I cannot make it thru NYC in a day, especially this time of year) They have several free town moorings (I think there are 12).
 
Having done this a few times ourselves, I will say the above are two very good pieces of advice. Manhasset is a good stop, and the moorings there are cheap or free depending (call the harbor master, it is getting late in the season).

I'd also suggest stopping in Great Kills, Staten Island or Atlantic Highlands if you have to wait for weather to Manasquan, or regardless, the extra time to go up the Hudson a bit, at least see the west side of Manhattan if nothing else (and there is no other experience like it).
 
PMF1984 said:
Sorry about. The reference to the Race, I meant Hells Gate
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Ok that makes more sense. I have never purposely timed going thru Hell Gate.
Sometimes it's 2 knots of headway, but I'd rather move than sit and wait for the current.

Have a nice trip.
 
Manhassett would be a good stop and you should be able to make Manasquan the next day. I did Manhassett to Barnegat easily in one day, but in summer daylight. You should be able to easily make Manasquan even now.

If the tides don't work favorably, you can just go anytime. 7 kts will make it through Hells Gate just fine. I did it against full flood in a 6.5 kt boat. You may only do 4 kts net down the East River, but it beats just waiting IMO.

David
 
Manhassett would be a good stop and you should be able to make Manasquan the next day. I did Manhassett to Barnegat easily in one day, but in summer daylight. You should be able to easily make Manasquan even now.
Yeah, but why miss some incredible cruising and sight seeing?
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Leave Atlantic High Lands at first light you should be able to make Atlantic City before dark.
 
So thanks all for the advice. I look to start off the hells gate trip from manhassett, I have to hit the throngs narrows bridge at 9:15 so that gives me an opportunity for a late start to make it by then
 
I've been through Hell Gate at maximum flow in a 32 foot sailboat. Forget about it. If it had a different name, you never would have heard of it. OTOH, make sure you have a fair current or it will be a slow and expensive run down the river.

Don't plan on taking a Pilgrim 40 into Manasquan or anywhere before Atlantic City with what sounds like your level of experience, please. Wait at Atlantic Highlands or a great little spot just behind the western end of Coney Island for a westerly wind and run right through to Atlantic City just off the dotted line indicating fish trap areas (about three miles out).
 
Having made this trip many times with two weeks ago being the most recent I can give you a good rule of thumb.
1. Enter at Throgs Neck at time of "Slack Water-Ebb Begins" at Hell Gate for a fair current all the way down the East River.

2. Entering at Throgs Neck at 1 hour and 45 minutes after high water at the Battery will give you the same result.

When I did this trip in a 36' boat I had no problem entering Manasquan Inlet. My current boat cruises at 10 - 11 kts and so I run straight to Atlantic City. You might find that run a bit long for you with daylight being short now.
 
caltexflanc said:
Typical for this time of year, conditions look spotty along the Jersey coast.

https://www.wunderground.com/MAR/AN/450.html
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Looking like Wednesday before I can get out of mystic. When I get to Sandy Hook time and sea conditions will determine if I press on to Manasquan.

( Right now in a stinky blow tied up just north of RR bridge in Mystic. Very well protected - no sea at all - but every time a train comes by it is unnerving as the first sound is the same as an oncoming bust from hell)

John
 
Don't plan on taking a Pilgrim 40 into Manasquan or anywhere before Atlantic City with what sounds like your level of experience said:
Well I've been reading that the NJ ICW section is very shallow, I draw just under 4 feet, so I was thinking picking either a day of mid-tide or higher, or outside friendly weather whatever came first.

As for the Manasquan inlet entrance I would think its not friendly if the tide is going out and the wind is southeast.

I seem to remember some issue though ( this year?) about shoaling and the ACOE handed it over to the locals.

And just to let you know, I do have in front of me a "Cruise Guide no. 3, New York Harbor to Cape Henry, VA." It was published by Phillips Petroleum in 1971. It's very handy, as it tells me where the Phillips 66 stations are (well to be truthful - were).

I keep this as a reminder of the first shipwreck I witnessed when I was 20 years old. An Egg Harbor went up on Sow and Pigs reef off of Cuttyhunk Island. The reef was not on his map - an Esso version of my Phillips map. (I think I have his water tank in my garage somewhere.)

So I try to over prepare a little and get too much information, and sometimes it does become TMI. So it's best to quash my male qualities sometimes and ask for directions.

John
Click to expand...
 
The NJ intracoastal is shallow but certainly an option for under 4 foot draft boats.

Travel on anything but the last 2 of a falling and first 2 of a rising tide. Go slow in areas where you are not sure where shallows are lurking.

I have never seen "fish traps" along the Jersey coast, other than a few pot buoys, but not even close to the density found elsewhere. Just look for lines of them and run parallel to most.

So even if there is a stiff Westerly or Northwesterly wind, you can hug the coast just offshore the shoal areas and be fine. Even when the forecast is calling for 5 footers, the waves within a couple miles of the beach are 2 or less and smaller if closer. Those are wind waves, if swell is forecast, different but not necessarily a show stopper. The swell can make inlets dangerous if big enough and an outgoing tide.
 
Last edited:
psneeld said:
The NJ intracoastal is shallow but certainly an option for under 4 foot draft boats.

Travel on anything but the last 2 of a falling and first 2 of a rising tide. Go slow in areas where you are not sure where shallows are lurking.

I have never seen "fish traps" along the Jersey coast, other than a few pot buoys, but not even close to the density found elsewhere. Just look for lines of them and run parallel to most.

So even if there is a stiff Westerly or Northwesterly wind, you can hug the coast just offshore the shoal areas and be fine. Even when the forecast is calling for 5 footers, the waves within a couple miles of the beach are 2 or less and smaller if closer. Those are wind waves, if swell is forecast, different but not necessarily a show stopper. The swell can make inlets dangerous if big enough and an outgoing tide.
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Thanks for the input. (Last night was one of those nights where the cost of an overpriced marina is worth every cent. If one is concerned about the wind increase, change in direction, you simply step on the dock- and add another line. Easy peasy.

John
 
PMF1984 said:
( Right now in a stinky blow tied up just north of RR bridge in Mystic. Very well protected - no sea at all - but every time a train comes by it is unnerving as the first sound is the same as an oncoming bust from hell)

John
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LOL Yes that is very close to the tracks.
My summer slip just on the opposite side of the tracks at Gwenmor. I barely hear the train any more after 25 years.
Good luck on your trip.
 
jleonard said:
LOL Yes that is very close to the tracks.

My summer slip just on the opposite side of the tracks at Gwenmor. I barely hear the train any more after 25 years.

Good luck on your trip.
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No trains now as the New Haven/Boston line has been closed due to storm damage

Good day to walk around town
 
PMF1984,
I just want to jump in here and say Howdy to a fellow Pilgrim 40 owner.
I purchased hull #13 last November (I bought a Pilgrim on Thanksgiving!).
Ex THIN BLUE LINE, now MERIDIAN^2 (squared).
Hopefully will get to meeet you in the near future. We plan on starting the Great Loop next April.

Fred and Becky:flowers:
 
PMF1984 said:
As for the Manasquan inlet entrance I would think its not friendly if the tide is going out and the wind is southeast.re a little and get too much information, and sometimes it does become TMI. So it's best to quash my male qualities sometimes and ask for directions.
Click to expand...

The issue with places like Manasquan (and it is one of the more dangerous) is that you an arrive to find that a large, long, high energy swell totally unrelated to anything you'll learn from a weather report has come on from a disturbance far out at sea. It is impossible to judge the state of the seas over the bar from the outside. You arrive tired and anxious to get off the water and out of the motion and your judgement may not be all it should be. You go for it and find yourself in breaking seas.

Some boats are better than others handling these kind of conditions. As a naval architect, I can think of few I would less want to take in through a breaking inlet than a Pilgrim.

I've done the inside NJ route northbound (going out of a place like Manasquan is a completely different proposition. You are fresh, you have more choice, and you can see what is happening before you get into it. A boat will also punch into a breaking sea with less risk than running before it). The inside NJ can be done with 4 foot draft but I was glad I had a lot of experience with the skinny water of the ICW before I did it. It is a great and interesting trip, especially right through the back neighborhoods of Atlantic City.
 
Roger,

To me you are describing the same conditions as Canapitsit Channel in the ELizabeth Island chain along the south side of Buzzards Bay. It can be pretty hairy in a strong SW breeze.

All things being equal, the forecast for wind direction and sea swell look pretty good tomorrow afternoon.

I won't have a better idea of my schedule until I'm through NY tomorrow.

(Got laid up in Mystic for 3 extra nights which also killed me on a favorable tide through LI sound)

Right now I'm at World's Fair Marina listening to the jets fly overhead looking forward to a favorable tide through NY at 6:42 am.

So if I think it's to "swelly" I have to hold in place and wait at Atlantic highlands (?)

And how does entrance at Barnagat Bay compare to Manasquan?

John
 
Actually Barnaget Bay entrance is not workable unless I grow wings and fly through N Y at 10 kts.
 
Too swelly off of Sandy Hook, off to Atlantic Highlands for a few days.
 
As I am stuck for a few days we decided to poke around and found a great place to tie up on the Navesink River, Fair Haven Yacht Works. This place is in primo condition.
 
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