Help with boat choice!

We are a retired couple looking to cruise the PNW. We currently own two (sub 30') boats and have been boating fresh water river/lakes for over 40 years. We would love to start cruising for a week or more at a time and eventually graduate to inside passage to Alaska. As previously stated, we have been researching for months, attended one boat show and had one sea trial on a 42' flybridge that exceeded 25 knots. We plan on spending a week in Seattle for 2018 boat show. Although I am very comfortable and confident on a boat, I also would like to acquire some more training or experience.
I think we have settled on the trawler design and would very much like to purchase our second boat first (something I read here and appreciated). So, I have some questions;

What size should we start with?
(the 42'er was way too small)

Displacement? or semi?
(we would love the GPH at 8-9 knots, but will we get used to going slow for extended periods)

Anything else I need to absolutely consider?

I have been reading this site every night for months, you people are amazing. I look forward to getting educated!

Michael

Five George said:

We are a retired couple looking to cruise the PNW. We currently own two (sub 30') boats and have been boating fresh water river/lakes for over 40 years. We would love to start cruising for a week or more at a time and eventually graduate to inside passage to Alaska. As previously stated, we have been researching for months, attended one boat show and had one sea trial on a 42' flybridge that exceeded 25 knots. We plan on spending a week in Seattle for 2018 boat show. Although I am very comfortable and confident on a boat, I also would like to acquire some more training or experience.
I think we have settled on the trawler design and would very much like to purchase our second boat first (something I read here and appreciated). So, I have some questions;

What size should we start with?
(the 42'er was way too small)

Displacement? or semi?
(we would love the GPH at 8-9 knots, but will we get used to going slow for extended periods)

Anything else I need to absolutely consider?

I have been reading this site every night for months, you people are amazing. I look forward to getting educated!

Michael

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Hi Michael - Welcome to Pleasure Boat World!

You say: "42'er was way too small" I suggest first determining what size boat you seek. That pretty much needs to be your own researched choice.

Looking forward to your added posts.

There's a huge charter fleet near Seattle, start there. Go get your butt on boats, a lot of them. If the fuel bill for a 42' sport fish at 25 knots didn't adversely affect the credit limit on your Chevron card I'd say look at some 55-65' sport fish rigs, tons of room and no reading tide charts.

Welcome to the party.

Welcome aboard, Michael.

The first big boat is always a tough decision. More info is needed for anyone to help much.

Five George said:

What size should we start with?
(the 42'er was way too small)

Displacement? or semi?
(we would love the GPH at 8-9 knots, but will we get used to going slow for extended periods)

Michael

Click to expand...

As far as size goes -
You have to consider how many people you'll have on board. Will it be sleeping for two, dinner for four, entertaining for six....? If the 42 is way to small, was it
sleeping accommodation, entertainment area, storage, engine room space or cockpit size that you want more of?

All boats are slow. Planes are fast. You'll soon realise that the speed isn't all that important, unless you often want to go a specific distance in a certain time. If you will be venturing out in open water, the ride may be more important than the maximum speed.

Perhaps charter a couple more different types of boats to get a feel for different hull shapes and layouts. Perhaps a full displacement boat and a Nordic or American Tug. They will both be completely different from the 42 foot flybridge you tried out.

The shopping adventure can be a lot of fun. Enjoy it!

You need to decide how much fuel you want to use - miles per gallon. Most people doing the NW passage are 12 knots and below. In my boat at 10 kts I burn 8.5 gallons an hour. At 25 knots with different engines it could be 50 gallons an hour.

What is your $ purchase budget?
What is your $ annual budget?
Looking new or used?

Five George said:

...

What size should we start with?
(the 42'er was way too small
..

Michael

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Sorry, you're well beyond my league. ... Wanting a fast boat over 40-foot LOA? ... Seems sensible that the larger the boat, the less one would want to exceed a knot or two below hull speed unless one is willing to spend hundreds of dollars for fuel every hour underway. ... Meanwhile, we're boating under two gallons per hour.

What is your total wealth ? photos of your house and cars I can then pick you a boat matched to you life style .

You asked a huge question that only you can answer and that was will you get use to going slow. Only you can figure that out. I'd suggest some chartering of other boats, different styles and likely slower. We chartered one slow boat and figured out very quickly we could not get use to slow and we were coming from a background similar to yours of faster, under 30' boats.

You're going to find the majority here are going to warn you about fuel costs, a legitimate warning, but also tell you how wonderful slow is. That may be true for them, but doesn't mean it will be for you. You'll have to answer that question. You are also the only one who can determine if fuel cost will be a deterrent to boat use.

Now, all 42's are not created equal. I don't know what brand you had for the sea trial. However, sometimes the faster boats have less usable space. Doesn't have to be that way, but it's a common design characteristic. Regardless, you'll have to go by your own feelings. If you try a 45' trawler type boat and it's too small and too slow for you, then don't argue with your feelings. Move up in size and speed.

You indicate the following three things. 1-42' flybridge too small. 2-question getting use to 8-9 knots. 3-have settled on trawler design. Well, news flash, those three don't go together. You have to decide which are the important items. We would be in the great minority here to feel as you do on 1 and 2. That's why we don't have a trawler design. Instead we have what might have the space and sea worthiness needed but in a larger and faster boat. As others have pointed out though, it all comes with a price. And it's not just a purchase price, it's an ongoing operational cost.

That's where you must temper your desires with realism and with your own budget. Just don't underestimate the annual operating costs. Don't get a boat that makes you worry about costs or even use it less because of the expense of usage.

So, look realistically at your desires and back up a bit to list all those things important to you in a boat. List those that are absolute necessities vs those that are desired but you could live without. Don't start with size as a requirement. Start with what you need a boat to do for you. Then you'll determine what styles and sizes fit your requirements. How many does it need to accommodate comfortably and for how long at a time, how large must the stateroom, galley, salon be, must it have a flybridge, where do you like the galley, how long at a time should you be able to enjoy being out on it, how long must it carry food and other provisions for.

The more boats you can get on, the more you'll figure it out. You may do it more at first, not through what you like so much as through what you don't like. So far, you've been on one 42' boat that you wouldn't be happy with because....because of what really, though? You said too small. That means nothing that helps you. In what way was it too small? What would it not do that you required? Not enough storage? Salon too small to be comfortable? Galley too small for your cooking desires? Bed in stateroom too small? Or did it just feel claustrophobic to you?

Good luck in your search. Remember one thing very important though. Only you can ultimately figure it out. Do not let others dissuade you from your own preferences. Find the perfect boat for yourselves, not for anyone else. We did the loop in a boat I don't know of anyone else ever choosing to do the loop in and can't imagine they would, but it was perfect for us. However, we're also the only ones I know who did the loop and never had fewer than 6 people aboard, and as many as 8.

There's no such thing as the perfect boat. Not perfect for everyone. Find the boat that comes nearest for you. You and no one else. You'll be able to do it.

Five George said:

(we would love the GPH at 8-9 knots, but will we get used to going slow for extended periods)

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For me, this is the most critical question. You have to decide if you love the journey. We spend hours at displacement speeds (8-9 knots) and love every minute of it. That’s because we love being on a boat. For us, we enjoy getting there as much as being there. But, that’s us. For some, getting there is just a necessity to be able to be there. You have to figure out what’s important for you. That decision will drive most of the others.

Paul

Wifey B: There's a recurring theme that those who like to go fast don't love being on a boat as much as you slow pokes. Well, I spend more time on a boat, on the water than most here and love it. I just don't love going slow. It's that simple. So, I might be moving on a boat for 8 hours in a day and cover 200 nm and you cover 60, doesn't mean I didn't love being on the water. I saw more water than you did. Maybe my eyes work faster. :lol:

There is no correlation between speed and love of the water.

Some truly love going slow. Others love slow because it's less expensive. Doesn't matter why, just don't think it puts you alone in the group that loves the water. Would you say those out on the lake water skiing don't love the water? The bass fishermen don't love it? What about offshore sport fishermen, do they not love it? Guess those racing sailboats don't either? We can all love the water at different speeds.

I love the journey, just like going further faster. I love the hours, even love the long two and three day crossings, love it all. I just don't love slow.

Slow, fast....personal choices.


After 2 previous Planning boats we are switching to a SD hull. It took me awhile to get to this mindset, and getting older has helped. I found the last few years I was running the P hull boat at D speeds anyway, and just enjoying the view and less worry than doing 22 knots in general in regards to other boats, obstacles in the water, etc.


Environmentally, (I realize being a boat owner and using that word can come off as disingenuous), but I do appreciate the fact we are burning much less fuel.

The reason there are so many different boats out there is because there are so many different people with different life styles. All we can do is give you the reasons why we did what we did and why we like it, then you decide. For us, coming from a sailing background to a trawler was easy. 8 knots on a 30 ft mono hull sailboat is really, really fast and feels like it, so going 9 knts on our trawler seems really fast. We looked at boats that could go faster, but looking at our retirement budget, we realized that burning 8 or more gallons per hr would mean sitting at the dock a lot rather than out cruising. Our 4.3 gal per hr @ 9knts works very well for us. In the end, get what YOU want, not what others want for you. You will be much happier that way.

Five George said:

As previously stated, we have been researching for months, attended one boat show and had one sea trial on a 42' flybridge that exceeded 25 knots.

What size should we start with?
(the 42'er was way too small)

Click to expand...

Can't speak to many of your questions, since much depends on many of the specific features you might need/want. For example: Crew size? Visitors never, sometimes, often, always? Speaks to staterooms and heads... And so forth. Another example: Single- or short-handed sometimes? Speaks to boat configuration (how accessible is the bow and side decks, etc.). A third: If you want a flybridge, can you negotiate ladders, or do you need stairs?

But FWIW, there are 42' boats, and then there are 42' boats. A 42' center console doesn't have much interior space. Our flybridge sportfish has decent interior space (including the enclosed bridge). A sport bridge/sedan bridge might have more interior space. And aft-cabin motor yacht will have much more interior space. And some multi-level trawlers, even slightly more.

IOW, length isn't the whole magilla; other factoids sometimes count more.

Perhaps hum a few more (several) bars about what features you might need/want. Might give folks a way to choose what dart board to aim at...

-Chris

A different take on fast versus slow:

Boating (being on a boat) isn't fun. If it was, nobody would ever leave the dock. It's what you do when you boat that makes it enjoyable. For some, being on the boat at the dock is enjoyable. For the bass fishermen, going fast isn't the purpose, it's getting to where the fish might be. It's rare to see people use a bass boat if the intent isn't for fishing. Same is true for a purpose built racing sailboat. They're totally lacking on creature comforts. Now as to trawlers and such. Simply traveling in the shortest navigable distance from one dock to the next as fast as you can isn't the same as maybe following the coastline and wandering into bays and rivers to see what you might see.

The point I'm trying to make is that the slower crowd often sees more between the path they take and the time they have to focus on the things they see. The fast boat certainly gives you the option to do both, although the urge to get there usually takes over. The slow boat focuses you to enjoy the slow lane, path less traveled. You will also find the slow lane crowd tend to anchor out overnight more and the fast lane crowd need the dock connections. Not a hard and fast rule, but very few go fast boats overnight in the anchorages. Figure out why you want to boat and pick the boat that best suits your purpose.

Ted

Welcome to the forum Michael. I am not sure I can add any value to what has already been said by others. It must be your decision. I to was a go fast boater with an offshore powerboat and loved it as did my kids, but now they are grown up and gone. Being that we are now retired we don't have to be anywhere at any specific time and don't like challenging the waters "because it's the weekend", but would rather layover a day or two if necessary to avoid bad weather. The admiral more than I would rather go a little faster at times but in general we are quite content with 7 knots, and the under 2 gal per hour fuel burn is much easier on our retirement budget. Good luck in whatever you decide. BTW 42 ft to me is huge unless you plan to live aboard.

The dickey boats LRC58 is an interesting concept you may like to look at -www.dickeyboats.com It is maintenance free on the outside and custom built to a high standard inside. Very economical and ocean crossing capable

I appreciate all the the comments and good information, including Gaston from Australia. I will send you picks of my shack another time.

But I think I may need to clarify a few things. I originally said that the 42'er was too small. I believe it may have been just this 42' boat. It had essentially no storage and a very small galley area. In my humble (and novice) opinion, very difficult to spend a week or two on. I have seen several others (a few in person) but most on internet searches that I believe could work nicely. I thinking that 85% of the time it will be just the two of us. But would obviously like the opportunity to host one of our daughters and family for a few days or so.
I also originally mentioned the speed of the boat. I'm not necessarily saying that we need to go fast. We would also like to limit our GPH and increase our range as much as the next retired couple. But based on my limited research, I was just concerned about some current conditions or approaching storms. I would assume that proper preparation and planning would dictate departure times or departure days. But I don't know! I have read a few things and can certainly make educated guesses. But I was really hoping for experienced and educated facts. Once we have spent some time on PNW waters, take a few classes and talk to experienced people...will we be ok in a 8-12 knot displacement boat?

Michael

(As a few others have said) One word: CHARTER.

It's one thing to spend 30 minutes at a boat show or on someone's boat. Quite another to live aboard for a week. We chartered two boats we thought could be "the one" only to find out that emphatically they were not.

Between Anacortes and Bellingham operations (not to mention up in BC too) you can charter just about anything you'd like. $4-6k-ish to find out what you don't like is a fantastic investment.

Also, if you zero in on a particular boat builder, generally the current owners are all fans. It's not that hard to make contact and they are usually willing to have a meeting on the boat, tell you what they like, don't like, etc. That's why it's such a great community.

Best of luck!

JustBob said:

(As a few others have said) One word: CHARTER.

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Can you really charter every type of boat there? Really?

I know there is no way in the world I could have found a boat like ours available for charter for any length of time over here.

Five George said:

But I think I may need to clarify a few things. I originally said that the 42'er was too small. I believe it may have been just this 42' boat. It had essentially no storage and a very small galley area. In my humble (and novice) opinion, very difficult to spend a week or two on. I have seen several others (a few in person) but most on internet searches that I believe could work nicely. I thinking that 85% of the time it will be just the two of us. But would obviously like the opportunity to host one of our daughters and family for a few days or so.
I also originally mentioned the speed of the boat. I'm not necessarily saying that we need to go fast. We would also like to limit our GPH and increase our range as much as the next retired couple. But based on my limited research, I was just concerned about some current conditions or approaching storms. I would assume that proper preparation and planning would dictate departure times or departure days. But I don't know! I have read a few things and can certainly make educated guesses. But I was really hoping for experienced and educated facts. Once we have spent some time on PNW waters, take a few classes and talk to experienced people...will we be ok in a 8-12 knot displacement boat?

Michael

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The answer is yes! That is:

1.As long as you have spent enough time on PNW waters,

2. Taken good classes, and;

3. Talked to [associated with] ample number of "well" experienced people.

Amount of time/effort on any the three needs is directly associated with your learning level for each one. You'll experience a pretty steep curve on a learning graph in the beginning. After a while your learning line will start to settle down into a more horizontal path.

I recommend for you to read all you can on the net and purchase some really good marine books that cover many areas of boating.

Happy Boat-Learning Daze! - Art

Five George said:

I also originally mentioned the speed of the boat. I'm not necessarily saying that we need to go fast. We would also like to limit our GPH and increase our range as much as the next retired couple. But based on my limited research, I was just concerned about some current conditions or approaching storms. I would assume that proper preparation and planning would dictate departure times or departure days. But I don't know! ...will we be ok in a 8-12 knot displacement boat?

Click to expand...

If it helps to know... we can cruise at up to about 22-23 kts (~30 GPH). We usually cruise at about 8 kts (~4.5 GPH). IOW, you can go slow in a faster boat.

But even at faster speeds, fuel consumption still wouldn't be our largest expense, partly because we're usually doing short hops anyway.

Weather preps are great, and work fine... until they don't. (Kinda like an anchor.) But yes, for the most part, prior forecasting and planning can get you through a major percentage of your boating. But even if you get caught in rough weather in a slow boat... the boat will often handle more than the crew might be comfortable with.

I don't know that I'd buy a faster boat for "just in case" weather. Doesn't hurt, but I probably couldn't see that as a major driver. Might buy a faster boat because I liked it for other reasons.

-Chris

ranger42c said:

If it helps to know... we can cruise at up to about 22-23 kts (~30 GPH). We usually cruise at about 8 kts (~4.5 GPH). IOW, you can go slow in a faster boat.

But even at faster speeds, fuel consumption still wouldn't be our largest expense, partly because we're usually doing short hops anyway.

Weather preps are great, and work fine... until they don't. (Kinda like an anchor.) But yes, for the most part, prior forecasting and planning can get you through a major percentage of your boating. But even if you get caught in rough weather in a slow boat... the boat will often handle more than the crew might be comfortable with.

I don't know that I'd buy a faster boat for "just in case" weather. Doesn't hurt, but I probably couldn't see that as a major driver. Might buy a faster boat because I liked it for other reasons.

-Chris

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Good input Chris. I especially like your reference to... " Weather preps are great, and work fine... until they don't. (Kinda like an anchor.)"

Id like to add my two cents.

1. In general, for inshore or close coastal cruising I like hard chine, wide beam, planing hulls. Why you may ask? Well... a. They don't roll as much in seas or while anchored. b. They usually have less draft. c. There is more easily usable room [i.e. fairly flat space] in bilge for items of all sorts. And, d. with correct power they can move out handsomely; when, if needed and/or whenever simply desired.

2. I like well powered twin screws on hard chine, wide beam planing hulls. Why you may ask? Well... that is how you get the boat to move out handsomely; when needed or desired. Additionally, [similar to as Chris mentions] the fast boat does not have to go fast. As matter of fact with correct transmission [e.g. BW Velvet Drive - or prop lock if needed] you do not even need to have both engines running at very slow speeds [like 5 to 6 knots]. In that case, at that speed your boat is sipping fuel - very economical.

So... there are boats that have a full displacement round chine hull which will not go over hull speed. Their fuel usage is usually the most affordable at just below hull speed. Regarding all boat hull designs they usually are the most fuel efficient - in their limited speed range. [good for long, at sea passages with steading sale or other stabilizing apparatus] There are semi displacement [some call this semi planning] soft chine hulls that are in a category of their own with each having its own design peculiarities [I've nothing against them though, kinda like em]. And there are hard chine planning hulls - my favorite for many reasons in regard to type boating we do.

There are all kinds of articles on the net regarding boat hull designs and what they offer.

Happy reading!

Five George said:

Once we have spent some time on PNW waters, take a few classes and talk to experienced people...will we be ok in a 8-12 knot displacement boat?

Michael

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No way anyone here can answer that for you. Some here are, some here are not. Only you can know and the only way to figure it out is by boating at those speeds, which requires either chartering or boating with others or gambling. As I'm not a gambler, I'd do whatever necessary to resolve that issue.

80% on this site are happy going those speeds or slower. 95% of sailboaters are happy those speeds and slower. 90% of all boaters are not happy at those speeds. 90% of owners of boats 100'+ are happy at those speeds.

So, very mixed bag, but don't allow yourself to be influenced by others in that thought.

Five George

We were all in your shoes at one time, and as you can tell we are all from different parts of the world, so our take on boats is based on our location and experience.

Since you are looking at the PACNW as your cruising grounds I would start with a trip to that area to look at boats, as the PACNW is as you know a bit different than other areas, and like all areas our boats are somewhat specialized.

There is a boats afloat show in January in conjunction with the Seattle Boat Show. That is a good, no pressure start.

Another good low pressure place to browse boats is a place called Bannana belt Boats in Anacortes. They have tons of boats on display that you can walk through, without having to hire a broker to look at.

I would start with those things. They will tell you what types of boats you like, and give you a sense of budget you will need to support your cruising ambitions.