How have hurricanes and fires impacted your boating

It seems much of life, or at least much of our lives, has recently been centered on hurricanes. Others are dealing with fires. The question for discussion is how has all this impacted your boating. Has it directly impacted it (as a destroyed boat would or plans to go to a marina in PR) or indirectly through taking your attention or even impacted your ability to enjoy it by knowing all those struggling so, impacted you emotionally in that way. Now there are many more people in all parts of the world facing extremely difficult situations but these have impacted the areas many of us cruise and the areas we live so we can cruise.

Just interested in the impact.

Do you think you have become fixated on misery?

Maybe it's time for a vacation/cruise.

Hasn't impacted my boating. Will have some post hurricane repairs to deal with when I get back to Florida. Looks like the house capital improvement budget may need to borrow money from the somewhere, other than the boating budget.

Ted

I lost a nice 40' sailboat in 2008 in Ike. I had secured it well and afterwards it was one of only a few still floating in its slip, but a steel ketch had got loose and banged into it for 12 hours...significant complicated repairs were required. So personally, the impact was that after Ike:
* all the local yards were affected so no place to get repairs
* when the yards re-opened they were most interested in taking on $1 million yachts, so,
* I would have been in a cradle for a year, paying "rent".

My insurance company was more interested in just paying the Agreed Value and moving on. I thought about having a friend buy it back at auction but then I'd still have the same challenges with repairs.

A gentleman in Michigan bought it sight unseen at auction, put it on a low boy and today its in beautiful shape, on Lake Michigan. So in a way there was a positive impact for him.

I was not deterred about boating, but I think there were many for whom a sunk boat ended their boating interest. Or at least closed out that chapter of their lives.

More generally, since Ike was only Cat 1 or 2 , it was all about surge (15-16 feet), so another impact was that many older "fixed pier" marinas went to floating piers, the cost of which gets passed on to consumers. It did improve many facilities. (Although a number of existing floaters went over their columns - that was a mess)

In Houston the impact of Harvey for me was a flooded home (never before in 63 years), a flooded car (one of around 600,000 cars totaled) and probably a 25 year regional plan to address our flood control system. Otherwise this city is going to lose a lot of residents and businesses since 80% didn't have flood insurance (and weren't considered at risk for flooding). I would expect that to be a federally funded project so I guess all of us are impacted.

BandB said:

...or indirectly through taking your attention or even impacted your ability to enjoy it by knowing all those struggling...

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Yikes...where to start and where to stop considering the grand scope of misery endured by Humanity available for your consideration!

Seek The Positive

what_barnacles said:

Do you think you have become fixated on misery?

Maybe it's time for a vacation/cruise.

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That's a tough line to walk. Fortunately, I have a wife who knows me well enough to protect me from myself. We were hit hard because we went to South Texas and then immediately home to the threat of Irma. Then we took the rest of a month to help out in our businesses working as friends helping our CEO and CFO. Who are those mystery friends? We'll never know.

So impact number one on boating was we cut our trip on the Cumberland short. Had others take our boat back from Nashville.

Two, it gave us a month without boating other than taking a center console to and from a car.

We really weren't hit hard by Irma but getting everything back full speed plus some businesses that had been for sale and now the owners weren't going to reopen them so some buying of all things.

Three, we also ended up between South Texas and Florida with three young girls, 17-20 years old, we were helping relocate or recover and get settled. In fact, yesterday was devoted to two of them. So, that took some time from boating.

Now after the month, we got out on the water and then returned to TN and cruised for 10 days. That was my wife protecting me. I would have immediately tried to address Puerto Rico somehow were it not for her. She reminds me constantly that I can't save the world, maybe help one person at a time.

We were out cruising today, just to Miami and back, and we'll have a large group and cruise tomorrow.

We're going to escape again and go to the orphanage in NC and to family in SC, so be gone five days or so. That will cheer us up.

Vegas affected us personally but not boating wise. Our honeymoon was in Luxor so very close to the shooting.

Now, before I do that, I am meeting with some employees and other contacts on a potential Puerto Rico undertaking. In the past I've spent a lot of time there on business, but it's been awhile. We were there boating early this year.

It does impact our boating for November and December, so boating impact #4. Normal would be to Key West, then Naples, Venice, etc. to Clearwater and St. Pete, then who knows. A couple of those stops are problematic. Maybe just shorter trips in FL and the Bahamas or maybe the planned trip with some missing stops. Or maybe by the time we get there marinas will be reopened.

Our New Year plan was to the Caribbean. Don't know if that will happen. I hope by then it's possible to do so even if the normal tourist attractions won't be available.

As to the fires, haven't been impacted much. Have friends traveling down the West Coast and not knowing if they'll be impacted. I do feel for the people there greatly. However, it seems people there will be better equipped to recover than those in Puerto Rico and also nothing really I could do to help those in California.

Fortunately, my boating and travel is with my wife and often with several other giggling girls.

None of this is at all a complaint. I know how lucky we are. Our problems and inconveniences don't matter and if I didn't let it affect me emotionally then I'd not like being that person. My parents never displayed any emotion beyond anger and hate for each other.

There's just been a lot going on and so it's interfered with boating but that is definitely not important. I know many who have lost boats. I've met a very small number of people who lost family.

The recent events just have covered so much territory, I doubt there are many people not impacted. There's good and bad sometimes. Kids seeing it have been scared and those in these places may long be impacted. However, I've seen schools finding a school in a stricken area with their same mascot and kids raising money to send to be used in the schools to help kids. That's very special when kids in Dallas or in NC or in GA establish a thoughtful and meaningful connection with those in other areas.

Last, it's a reminder when we are boating, how blessed and lucky we are. For the moment, it's hard to feel real bad for the person who loses one of two engines and has to replace some hoses but then I recognize that's still stressful. We are definitely not complaining about anything that has impacted us. However, I think most people have been impacted by the events. I also think the next year or two will bring more fear during hurricane season and probably some overreaction and panic. That's just natural. Might for those who weren't hit badly bring some false sense of security too.

It's hard for me to believe it's only been 8 weeks as Harvey hit South Texas on August 25. Sure been a h... of a eight week period.

Now back to the crazy people grilling chicken and wanting to go swimming after dinner. No skinny dipping as we have a 3 year old present.

CDreamer said:

In Houston the impact of Harvey for me was a flooded home (never before in 63 years), a flooded car (one of around 600,000 cars totaled) and probably a 25 year regional plan to address our flood control system. Otherwise this city is going to lose a lot of residents and businesses since 80% didn't have flood insurance (and weren't considered at risk for flooding). I would expect that to be a federally funded project so I guess all of us are impacted.

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Have you been boating since?

MurrayM said:

Yikes...where to start and where to stop considering the grand scope of misery endured by Humanity available for your consideration!

Seek The Positive

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We've definitely witnessed so much positive first hand.

We got off light this year. Wasted two days and fuel moving the boat to and from the hurricane hole for Hurricane Nate, but no damage.

I don’t live in a hurricane area. Likely I will get nailed by an earthquake in my lifetime, but I am safe from hurricane and flood. Fires affected our boating in 2 ways this year.

The BC fires and some unusual weather caused a week or so of horrible air quality in western Washington as the smoke was blown South from BC. This was miserable but... it seemed to scare away a lot of WA boaters from heading North to BC this last summer. We went, and found far fewer US boats than we saw last year. This made everything less crowded and was really nice.

We also have had some really bad fires in Western WA and in Oregon along the Columbia river. We had a number of days of significant ash fall. This meant for me that I spent a full weekend trying to clean the ash stains out of my gelcoat. On a Saturday it was my 40’ sailboat which I haven’t sold yet, and then Sunday it was my NP43. Every horizontal surface had freckles from the ash stains.

BandB said:

Have you been boating since?

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All the time - have been through many storms and never considered stopping. I stayed with sailing after Ike but moved to a more race-capable Sabre. Then moved to power with a big Stamas. Now in the market for an eventual live-aboard / Loop boat a la an earlier model Selene - or would absolutely consider an Alaskan in wood. (Yes, even with the risks associated with wood). That would probably require a long delivery from the PNW...which I can do but need to retire first.
The storm threat doesn't bother me - I also have two other smaller boats and I crew all the time.

CDreamer said:

All the time - have been through many storms and never considered stopping. I stayed with sailing after Ike but moved to a more race-capable Sabre. Then moved to power with a big Stamas. Now in the market for an eventual live-aboard / Loop boat a la an earlier model Selene - or would absolutely consider an Alaskan in wood. (Yes, even with the risks associated with wood). That would probably require a long delivery from the PNW...which I can do but need to retire first.
The storm threat doesn't bother me - I also have two other smaller boats and I crew all the time.

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Meant since Harvey. Just didn't know if you'd had time.

The storms and fires and other disasters have made me consider a lot of things. My boat was not damaged. The house in Marathon survived with only minor damage. The farm took a pretty big hit. My house here in Homestead was not damaged.

These are all problems of prosperity. I feel for the people who have suffered and done what I can to help.

None of this changes much for me. I only use my boat to fish. September and October are not months I fish much so I did not miss much boating as a result of the storm. I would normally go to Key West in November and get a slip in the marina. I have not yet called to see if that is possible this year. There is less money to spend on the boat this year due to the cost to repair the farm. I had just finished putting the boat in first class condition so I don't expect to need to spend much to begin with.

There has been some emotional toll. That has been because of what others have gone through. You kinda see the best and the worst in people in a disaster. I have not felt much like going to Marathon due to all the destruction.

The storm did provide me with a reason to consider what is really important. I had to chuckle at some of the loud complaining about the lack of air conditioning when the power was out. I guess experiences in my childhood prepared me well for no AC...lol I lived in a house ten miles off a paved road with no running water, no electricity, no indoor bathroom, and no refrigeration. Water came from a spring about a quarter mile down the hill and I made a zillion trips with a bucket the two years I lived there to get the water. I guess one could say we were very poor. I never thought so, or really it never even crossed my mind. We never suffered for anything and every now and then I found a way to make a nickle so I could walk the ten miles to the paved road and buy a cold drink....WOW what a privilege to be able to buy a soda !!

So, yes, one way or another I will get back to using the boat as soon as the cooler weather gets here in a few weeks. Unfortunately I will not be in a position to feel so wonderful about getting to drink a soda...lol

Thanks for sharing, Planobilly. I knew your farm was your biggest damage. Also recall you offering here to help someone having issues, although he turned you down.

BandB said:

Thanks for sharing, Planobilly. I knew your farm was your biggest damage. Also recall you offering here to help someone having issues, although he turned you down.

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We should get together sometime. I think we may have a lot of things in common. I assume we are not very far apart a lot of the time.

I see it turned into a poll ! My view is that life is what you make of it. Sure there are issues from time to time, but whingeing has never fixed any of them for me. Ok, I've been lucky and not suffered from hurricane/cyclone damage, or wildfires. But I was raised to think about the situations you put yourself in. So I avoid flood-prone or 'nestled-in-the-woods' real estate. But I still feel sorry for those caught out. As noted on other threads, they are often exposed to risk because houses in risk areas are cheaper to buy or rent.

But the one post above that struck me was dhays, post#10. Yes, you are very likely to get nailed, and big time. Its a matter of when - maybe not in your lifetime, and hopefully after better prep has been made. This great article by Kathryn Schulz in the New Yorker a couple of years ago should be mandatory reading for your legislators and other public officials. If B & B really does have a fixation on misery (not likely) then this article will make his day.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one

Irma: location: Waterways Marina Aventura, FL., dirty side of the storm. Situation: new dock lines, concrete docks. I had pre-stretched the lines with the engine, at the dock but, not the same as a steady blow.
Preparations: I dock with the pointy end in first because I have a tender on the davits. I moved the RIB forward under the starboard bow, added about 4 inches of water for weight. W/O the RIB in the Davits, I crossed the stern lines, moved the boat back in the slip, doubled up all lines, pulled in the water hoses, took 2 deck chairs to the store room, checked the bilge pumps, checked the bilges - dry and dusty, put out all the fenders on the port side between the boat and the evil concrete dock. Loosened the port lines, tightened the starboard lines to move it away from the dock.
Ran the generator for an hour under full load, made a pot of coffee.
People asked where I would spend the time, I said on the boat. I did have 3 offers to wait out the storm in their condos. I told them, "If I die, I die. I am old, I have lived a long, happy and exciting life. If the boat sinks, I will be pissed."
First night, pretty good blow and rain. I tightened he aft starboard dock line a couple of times.... Went to bed. Next day, heavy rain, even higher winds. Everyone around me, condos, and the marina lost power about noon. Me? Watching TV, drinking coffee, eating well. No canvas lost, yet. I have a pretty good 12 vt/inverters set up so I was fine. I could have started the generator for A/C and the stove but, I did not want to seem too comfortable to those in condos. SMIRK Check the RIB, still fine. Checked the bilges, still dry and dusty. Tightened the aft starboard line again. Still no power. All fine. Watched TV, drank hot coffee, ate some left overs, heated in the microwave.... mmmm, good inverter.
Watched a 80ft+ft boat, pull its pilings and end up against the concrete wall with rocks. Folks gotta learn, don't tie high on the pilings.... The broker sent a crew out, moved the boat from the wall to another slip. I suspect the boat suffered damage to at least one prop and perhaps a shaft. When the tried to back into a slip, there was a lot of grunting and groaning and smoke. They gave up and put it in bow first, crew went home. Another boat, about 30ft, in danger of sinking due to rubbing up against a concrete dock, later sunk. Still no canvas lost on my boat. Storm surge came in on a falling tide, during the day, but still about a foot plus. Lapping over the top of the concrete wall. Still no power, checked the line and the RIB, watched TV, ate unhealthy, drank hot coffee. Went to bed. I have one 120vt light onboard. about 3am I was awakened by the light in the salon. Got up, turned on the A/Cs and went back to bed. Next morning things started to quiet down.... We are on the same electrical feed as the hospital at the end of the block. No canvas lost.... As a result of the storm, I do have an interesting beneficial curve to the aft support of the canvas.... Now the water drains off. LOL
Additional damage to boats and marina..... another 80ft+ boat moved forward in its slip resulting in rubbing its bow against the evil concrete wall. He slapped some of that "as seen on TV" water proof tape for the trip to the yard. Couple other boats had minor fiberglass damage, evil concrete docks. Wooden fender boards on the concrete dock broken. One sailboat's boats sails destroyed..... the absent owner did not have someone go and put away his sails. Couple days later, sunk boat sent divers to patch up the hull of the sunk boat, put a couple of sizable gasoline pump near the boat and made short work of pumping it dry enough to tow it to the yard.
Now came the "restore to normal" routine. Uncrossed the stern lines, bailed out the RIB, moved it back to its davits, put the water hoses back out, sat down, drank hot coffee and watched TV.
Would I do it again? Well, I did question my sanity twice, for about a second each time, but it was too windy to safely leave the boat. I guess I would do it again or maybe not.
I did protect the boat from the evil concrete dock. The pilings.... I had the lines about half way down on the pilings... less flexing. Cleats held, lines held, no damage. The bilges are still dry and dusty too. Slept well each night during the storm. That is pretty much how I spent the storm.

Conclusion: You protect and maintain your boat, your boat will protect you.

Insequent said:

I see it turned into a poll !

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So do I, although I had nothing to do with it.

Insequent said:

...But the one post above that struck me was dhays, post#10. Yes, you are very likely to get nailed, and big time. Its a matter of when - maybe not in your lifetime, and hopefully after better prep has been made. This great article by Kathryn Schulz in the New Yorker a couple of years ago should be mandatory reading for your legislators and other public officials. If B & B really does have a fixation on misery (not likely) then this article will make his day.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one

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It is only been 5 years since it was discovered that there is also potential for megathrust earthquakes where I live on BC's north coast.

The indicators are there, however, for those who care to look for them.

We live in the Kitsumkalum-Kitimat Trough, a wide valley system including Douglas Channel which cuts through the Coast Mountains. There is no other geological feature like it on the coast of BC. There are 5 hot springs found only on its eastern margin and at its northern end is Canada's youngest volcano, the Tseax Volcano.

A few years ago I was at a ceremony where the Haisla (the local indigenous First Nations people) were given back a piece of land where Kitimat's old hospital once stood. The Haisla name for the site translates into something like "Where wood for masks is found."

Apparently, when the Haisla arrived in this area there was only scrub brush between where the old hospital stood and the ocean so this was where they found trees big enough to make masks, and it's 5km away from salt water, over flat ground...

Some First Nations peoples origin stories in the area recount glaciers covering the land, but the Haisla's story is different. They were being persecuted and on the run from inland and further south down the coast. This area was uninhabited, which is weird, because historically the Kitimat River had massive runs of salmon and a fish called oolochans. Oolichans can be rendered down to oolichan grease (a fish oil) and is one of the most important trade commodities between First Nations to this day.

Another story tells of how one day soon after arriving they noticed strips of cedar bark floating down the river. This told them there were other people upstream, but also indicates that the valley floor had been free of glaciers for a long time. Why then was such a rich place uninhabited, and why was there only scrub brush several kilometres inland from the ocean?

While doing research for geological hazards to a proposed diluted bitumen pipeline and supertanker port for Kitimat (which failed...yay!!!!) I found a study which put the eruption of the Tseax volcano very near the 1700 quake spoken of in the article quoted above. I also found sediment data from the bottom of Lakelse Lake which had a massive spike in plant material at around the same time...a possible indicator of large scale landslides.

I asked that there be a paleoseismological study done of the Kitimat River estuary, but it fell on deaf ears.

Large scale natural disasters are infrequent, but inevitable. Megathrust earthquakes are significant local events, but then there are greater forces playing out beneath our feet...Yellowstone or Italy's super volcanoes will be game changers;

Yellowstone Supervolcano May Rumble to Life Faster Than Thought

TOHO! (Today Only Happens Once.) Live it up...enjoy...learn...hug those you love...enjoy the day because you just never know...

The elephant in the room asks why have a recreational non mandatory boat in hurricane country that is facing so much annual assured risk? There are options such as a trailer boat, move the boat, boat elsewhere or have no boat. Retirees have options and choices.

Not to mention that the western Canada forest fires (like hurricanes, a regular happening) caused several of us to wash our vessels a few extra times this summer. But and a very big but, many poor souls in interior BC communities like Williams Lake (I used to live there) lost everything, not much different than the hurricane homes and businesses.

IMHO, to dwell on our lost toys when so many have lost everything is a very big oxymoron. Kinda like Hollywood's Hurricane Harvey getting more press and surprised gasps than the real thing.

We know our boat insurance will increase due to hurricanes and the company's losses.
We also know house insurance will increase for the very same reasons.
I wonder of the two, house and boat, insurance increases by a greater percentage.

OldDan1943 said:

We know our boat insurance will increase due to hurricanes and the company's losses.
We also know house insurance will increase for the very same reasons.
I wonder of the two, house and boat, insurance increases by a greater percentage.

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Insurance is going to increase throughout the country, even in areas unaffected. In most states the insurance commission controls homeowner's rates and can limit the amount of the increases. Same with auto which with hundreds of thousands of lost cars will be hit. However, marine insurance isn't controlled and regulated in the same way. Therefore, I expect it to be hit hard. I think many people will have to switch insurers to keep reasonable prices.

There are some real oddities about what has happened. California has had thousands of homes destroyed completely by wildfires.

Texas is odd in that windstorm is separate from homeowners. Windstorm will definitely increase but the real damage in the state wasn't wind. It was flood. The biggest change will be everyone recognizing the need for flood insurance whether you're officially in a flood area or not. Moody's estimates $150 to $200 billion total cost of the two hurricanes. However, so much was infrastructure, loss of business, loss of tax revenue, and flood. Houston faces huge financial challenges as a city.

In Florida, you have huge home damage in the keys, but as a percentage of homes in the state and the dollar amount of homes it's not as big as it seems. It's very destructive but to a small area. Other parts of the state have their share of damage too but much is flood so not going to impact homeowners. Obviously this will challenge the entire flood insurance program. Unfortunately, many in Florida weren't covered either.

It will be interesting to see the total insurance claims and by type of insurance. I think insurance will cover a very small percentage of the total damage.

I'd project increases on homes and windstorm and flood overall of 20% or so. I'd project some boat insurers refusing to renew, some increasing 100% and then ultimately the ability to reinsure for about 20% more.

Then there are those who don't have insurance, thinking they are saving money.

OldDan1943 said:

Then there are those who don't have insurance, thinking they are saving money.

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Well, I did notice a distinct difference in the level of preparations by those without insurance and those with it, during preparations for Hurricane Nate. An informal survey in my area revealed that every single boat lost was insured. I guess people with no insurance have a lot more incentive to prepare better. Many with insurance, didn't even bother to move them out of the marina here.

I hope to never be w/o insurance.

Group9 said:

Well, I did notice a distinct difference in the level of preparations by those without insurance and those with it, during preparations for Hurricane Nate. An informal survey in my area revealed that every single boat lost was insured. I guess people with no insurance have a lot more incentive to prepare better. Many with insurance, didn't even bother to move them out of the marina here.

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Did not notice such here. People with insurance did all the right things. Tied up well. Those at good marinas made it through with no issues for the most part. However, there were some here and there in the canals that tore pilings they were tied to out and then ended up with cosmetic damage due to floating into a dock. It's my believe that those who did that had tornado action whether the updrift from the hurricane or actually mini-tornadoes. They were in areas that had quite a few. In these same areas you'd see every house fine on a block except one hit hard.

People here don't move out of the marina if the marina is well prepared, concrete, floating, tall pilings. Now we're protected by barrier islands and don't have the extreme tides or surge.

We always tie our boats in hurricane mode so all we really did was double and triple check.

Bay Pelican was safe from both Irma and Marie, being 200 miles south of St. Martin. Our emotions however suffered with our friends whose boats were totaled and reached great heights celebrating with those friends whose boats escaped serious damage. In some cases it was the luck of the draw. A boat that was in St. Lucia (safe area) was moved to St. Martin for four months storage was miraculously safe, having been stored next to the wall of a building, while two other boats meters away in St. Martin were destroyed. We know all three owners.

We are thankful that among our fiends, acquaintances, no lives were lost.

We boat in the SF Bay and Delta. This weekend we were in the Delta where smoke from the wine country fires brought very unhealty air. Lots of people complaining but only a few wearing masks. I'll take fire in the area any time to earthquakes as it relates to the Delta. The levees are not engineered structures, just piles of dirt, subsiding. A major earthquake on the Hayward Fault is expected to cause certain levees to fail. If one fails and lots of water moves quickly, others could fail--which could be catastrophic through out the CA Delta, an otherwise water wonderland.

Good question.


My answer may sound glib, or non empathy. Do not mean it that way. But the number one thing that has impacted our boating is the fact we sold our boat a year ago and don't currently have a boat.


That is changing. Under contract, survey's this week, if everything goes well will close the following week.


That said - starting to plan our initial cruises.


Good friend of ours is headed to Galleon in Key West next week. His thought, the Key's are tourism driven - that it helps to get traffic back.


If closing works, we will be in the Key's over the holidays time period. We love Marathon, Burdines is open, the west basin at Faro has power - we will be there.


We also love the Napa region. Have looked at the photos, it looks like the surface of the moon - or a foreign planet. So sad for the people in the north bay region. As much as we love the area, that really does not impact our boating.


Key's, the coastal regions of FL. That is boating impact.


Talking with a friend of mine tonight who lives in Miami. He drove down to MM 20 this past weekend. Said it was a different place. For so many miles where in the past you did not see water, now you do. He grew up spending time there, his comment was he was in tears as he made the drive.


But the other comment he made was about talking to the people he knew there. The attitude was positive. It was, we will overcome this. Say's something about the resiliency of the people in the Key's.


For us, let us get this boat bought - and we are contributing tourism dollars to the Keys.