Supreme whack job continued ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Some grinding took off the roll bar.

When I bought the Supreme it was advertised as a 15lb anchor. It weighed 18lbs. Now it weighs 15lbs. The roll bar was heavier than I though it would be. As a result the CG is considerably lower. The only way one can make it drag is to stand it up vertical and tip it backwards away from the fluke. Very unlikely for the anchor to end up vertical and as soon as one started to back down it would be on it's side. Should work but then it's anchoring and surprises abound.

I have another modification planned that should take the place of the roll bar and force the anchor to orient itself properly. Very little weight and drag.

I want to try it as seen in the pics before further modification. I don't want to add stuff and then want to come back where I was before. I'm going to use the little cable as seen in the last pic to help w the penetration. If it won't penetrate deeper that the stock anchor w the roll bar then my mod is pointless.

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I was going to revive the thread but there's too much BS on it. Even arguing w Marin. Didn't realize it was that old.

In about a week we'll be going on our first cruise in some time. I plan to use the modified Supreme much of the time especially on questionable bottoms. Want to see if my substitute for the roll bar can provide dependable setting.

I included this old post (second pic (attachment) is best) to show how I've modified the anchor. The most recent mod was grinding (lots of grinding) the leading edge of the shank to a quite sharp knife like shape. The whole philosophy of this anchor mod is to attain a far less draggy substitute for the roll bar and streamline the other parts to permit low drag through the bottom and deeper penetration. But it needs to set dependably. Will report back.

The other anchor (XYZ) has been modified again since it's last been seen so I included two pics (after and before).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Not an anchor one casually throws in the inflatable for kedging.

The roll bar is from end to end and not side to side? How does that help it roll? At all?

what_barnacles said:

The roll bar is from end to end and not side to side? How does that help it roll? At all?

Click to expand...

It will roll when that webbing fills full of weed in a good current and pulls the anchor back out, preventing it from ever resetting.....

Oh Oh, this may put North Korea on the back burner.

Andy G said:

Oh Oh, this may put North Korea on the back burner.

Click to expand...

It may take a video by Steve to avert the conflict....

what_barnacles said:

The roll bar is from end to end and not side to side? How does that help it roll? At all?

Click to expand...

Barnacles,
If the anchor lands inverted the "horn" digs in and levers the back of the fluke up above the seafloor. This being very unstable it flops off on one side and presents an edge of the fluke tip to the bottom like many other modern anchors and "knifes" down into the bottom for a set.

Also re the horn .. notice how it's swept fwd? That's so during reversals the chain, cable or line doesn't catch the horn and jerk the anchor out.

Caught up w Steve on the net and saw he's cut off the slot pice on top. It was my idea also but I thought it was not a good idea to weaken the shank so I declined to do it.

Well now Steve has done it and the shank seems up to the task w his rather violent reversals so I got out the grinder. Took quite a bit of grinding but it's done. Don't know when I'll get a chance to do some sets as I'm recovering from a separated rotator cuff tendon.

Took off the "hogback" righting lattice as I wanted to see if I could set the new version consistently ... or most of the time. The "lattice worked but I want to see how close to perfection I can come concentrating on CG to roll the anchor. It's lower drag than ever so I'm optimistic. Optimism fails in experimental anchoring often so ???

If I fail I have a plan B.

what_barnacles said:

The roll bar is from end to end and not side to side? How does that help it roll? At all?

Click to expand...

barnacles,
It works. Just like the shank on the Manson Boss, Rocna Vulcan and Spade. If the anchor gets fairly vertical the top of the shank pushes the anchor up enough so the fluke tips the anchor over and the it lays on it's side or assumes a position right-side-up.

Anchor Mod Update

Update;
My last mod to my Manson Supreme resulted in what I called the "Hogback Supreme". It set and worked fine on our 7-9 day trip to the South Sound. But it was a slow setter. I reasoned the slightly high CG was responsible and would eventually result in not setting at all. The mod was a bit odd looking and I decided to nix it and try something much different. See the #1 pic of the old Hogback.

My next creation is my new Supreme stinger. Notice I cut off all the metal above the trip slot thereby removing it along w considerable weight .. all of it high. Steve G (Panoope) did the same thing. I thought of it before but thought the shank would be rendered too weak. But Steve's anchor seemed to be plenty strong enough. So I made the cut.
With nothing but a better CG the anchor would probably get upside down at some time. Taking a que from a kayak anchor design and morphing it into something quite different that would keep the anchor right side up, cause far less trouble from drag, and add very very little weight I came up w this stinger concept. Because of the angle of the stinger it should roll the anchor over if upside down. May not work at extremely long scope but I don't favor that anyway. Now the Supreme weighs 12lbs. Originally it weighed 18lbs and no reduction in fluke area has been made.

So now I've got two anchors to test.
Want to drill holes in both but I'm going to put holes in the Supreme only right away. I'm quite sure the Claw will turn out to be a mud scoop and the Supreme does at least a bit of that . So I want to get an idea how much mud the Claw scoops up before I drill any holes in it. Since I don't have a drill press the holes in the Claw will be more challenging. It's thicker. I could be wrong as the Claw is made out of metal probably not as strong as the Manson.

To be continued ...

Eric, I reckon if you keep going the way you're going with that Supreme, you're gonna wind up with an anchor that looks very much like an Ultra anchor. Only not shiny stainless steel.

Ultra Anchors – Ultra Marine Products

Hi Peter,
Interesting. Never thought of that. The Ultra is so expensive I rarely if at all think about it.

It’s a work of art to be sure. I really like the shank. And actually thought of putting a “non-foul chain bar” (their words to be clear) on the Supreme Stinger for a completely different reason. I think the chain/rode will come up and over the upper shank w/o any help. But I like the opening the chain bar provides to pull up the SS over the rail and onto the deck w a boat hook.

As to the business end of the shank I see no reason for those swoopy curves in it’s shape. I suspect the designer is as much an artist as an anchor designer. The Ultra is IMO the most beautiful anchor ever. But for function I think the very straight flukes of the Rocna or Mantus is better engineering .. and performing.
The shank I assume is hollow as is the Spade. Probably the very best possible way to build a shank. The plate metal shanks that we see in the bulk of production anchors is far from ideal. Shanks are high so lightness is golden and for the shank to be knifelike to penertate the seabed sideways is also the very best. A lot to like in the Ultra.

And perhaps that’s a compliment re my SS (Supreme Stinger). If so I’ll take it. I do think it’s an improvement over the Hogback. The stinger itself is not very strong as it’s light tubing. It’s optimized for performance now but would be a tad heavier on a working anchor. Easy to fix if bent or broken though.

Update

Drilled 20 11/64ths inch holes in the fluke of the Supreme Stinger.
11/64ths is almost 3/32nd.
Small holes but this is a 12lb anchor. Drilled plenty of them hoping more smaller holes may do a better job. If the anchor comes up clean they stay small. Plan on a fairly deep countersink on both sides to promote water transfer from under the fluke to between the fluke and the mud. If not they get bigger starting w three near the center of the fluke either side of the shank attachment.
I also plan (later) to put dimples on the upper fluke surface. My idea is to cut the heads off of SS round head screws. Socket heads. Small to help keep the mud moving along. That could prove difficult. Attach w JB Weld most likely.

Excuse my question but is the purpose of the holes?

L

Lou,
Review Steve Goodwin’s post #524 on his thread “Anchor Setting Videos”.
He modified a Manson Supreme (his) that he was frustrated with re it’s performance in it’s modified state. The anchor kept setting and holding perfectly well on the first set. But all (I think) later sets were plagued w poor performance to terrible performance.

Steve remembered how well the Australian anchors worked w slots in the flukes. So he drilled 18 1/2” holes in his Supreme anchor and after that this anchor failed to fail. Time after time it set and held. Eighteen 1/2” holes took the anchor from terrible to spectacular performance.

So that’s the background.
The theory of how it works is my take on it’s (holes/slots) that the backside of the anchor is either water or water and very loose seabed. Some of the water goes up through the holes and loosens the compact seabed on top of the fluke that causes the mud to slide along and not stick to or impact it’s self on the top of the fluke. It appears that w considerable mud stuck to the fluke the anchor becomes inoperable. The pile of mud maintains it’s shape and one may as well be anchoring w a big rock.

That’s the way I think these slots/holes work.
On my modified Claw anchor that I think will have a big problem w mud impaction I’m going to use the anchor w/o the holes first but w the Supreme it’s got a somewhat well deserved reputation as a mud scoop anyway so if the holes save my Supreme also the Anchor Right Australia anchors may become even more popular.
However the holes may have other effects on other aspects of performance as well. Anchor flukes are a bit like wings I suppose and an aircraft wing would not perform well enough w holes in it. Large amounts of lift loss would happen. But it’s unclear whether holding power on an anchor is effected or how much if so.