Adventure #1: Getting her home

In the welcome thread, I posted that I'm the proud new owner of a 42' Matthews Cabin Cruiser. She's got a set of questionable twin diesel engines, but the hull looks good, the interior appears solid, and will just need to be touched up, sealed, etc.

I'm going to be cruising this thing from her current location in Bremerton, Washington down to Olympia where she'll end up living. However... questionable engines being what they are, I'm interested in some emergency back-up plans to keep in my back pocket.

I think the worst case scenario is a monstrous tug-boat bill, in which case it might be cheaper to simply purchase a couple of new engines. But let's honestly say that both motors fail on me on this first-of-many trips. Aside from having a friend with a boat pull me (which is a viable option), what are the common steps here?

Surely, somebody here has purchased a questionable boat before.

Did you have full engine surveys? What did they say was questionable?

Sign up for one of the towing services. Boat US or Tow Boat US or whatever (I don't know all the names)

menzies said:

Did you have full engine surveys? What did they say was questionable?

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I didn't get a survey done. I took a gamble on an inexpensive boat. Yes, I'm aware of the inverse relationship between the purchase price of a boat and it's resulting overall cost, but I think the hull itself was worth the price. It's really in decent shape.

Anyhow, the engines run, but one of them appears to have a failing water pump, so I've ordered a new water pump and belt. But the engines started and ran. The "questionable" bit was really about my lack of familiarity with this specific diesel engines, and not really about their performance. They're just a rather unknown variable for me.

Have your anchor ready to deploy, with enough rode for the depth of water that you will encounter. That will buy some time if required.

However, the only thing likely to stop both engines is a fuel issue. So be prepared with spare filters. If possible have the engine's fuel supply coming from two different tanks.

If worried, have your friend with a boat accompany you. If really worried, have a tow line attached from the other boat.

What else? Wear brown corduroy trousers. Some clean underwear, just in case?

How about a weekend run, with say 8 hours of continuous running? That should get you up and personal with the engines, flush out any issues with engines drive train, etc and either green light the delivery trip or tell you what needs doing before the trip.

The trip from Bremerton to Olympia is approx 5 hours at 7 knots. Biggest concern is timing the current at the narrows. Have another boat accompany you, in case you need a tow.

Bill

Have you purchased insurance?

Perhaps, you should reconsider a survey. You will need one to purchase insurance anyway.

What is the condition of the fuel tanks? When was the boat last used? How old is the fuel in the tanks?

Consider trucking the boat home.

There is really no way to sugarcoat this. To take the boat home on its own bottom without a survey or insurance or more knowledge of its mechanical condition is irresponsible.

I would recommend you to get an insurance covering the tow in case you need it. Last year I conveyed my boat for a 1 week cruise and while it was a stressful adventure (but a wonderful one) it was a relief to have a good insurance in case.

L.

Why are the engines questionable?

What makes you think that?


Juat read the last. If water pump a question watch that temp guage. If they start fast when cold Id trust them. Juat wonder about the fuel delivery. I assume twin diesels.

Donsan said:

There is really no way to sugarcoat this. To take the boat home on its own bottom without a survey or insurance or more knowledge of its mechanical condition is irresponsible.

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I appreciate the straight talk. I've been handy with most things I've gotten myself into (fixer-upper motorhomes, fixer-upper houses), but I'm seeing that there are quite a bit more potential issues with a floating mass.

I do know that the boat has been sitting for about 18 months. It just came in from Alaska, and apparently went back and forth from Olympia to Alaska with some frequency. The previous owner got old and sick and couldn't manage it. The guy that bought it from him has had it for a few months, but only bought it because it came with the boathouse, which is what he actually wanted. But he did fire up the engine and it apparently fires right up.

I will need to get a marine survey soon as I do intend to get insurance on it, both for the hull and for liability.

What engines?

jovial_cynic said:

I will need to get a marine survey soon as I do intend to get insurance on it, both for the hull and for liability.

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Wifey B: Don't try till you do that. Then check it out locally first. Then if all is good make the trip.

Definitely a good anchor and it will take you decades to figure out what that is and a towing membership from Boat US which is Vessel Assist in that area.

Many people have an unfailing trust having two engines (not trusting a single engine). If one engine poops out, you still have the second engine to carry on, but you could have a bit of trouble docking with an uncentered single engine.

Apologies for my geographical shortcomings, but can`t you give it a good hard run in protected waters, in company if preferred, to see what happens. I`m no fan of the first trip being a delivery voyage in exposed conditions, thus the "shakedown' suggestion.
My impression is the engines are unknown to you and therefore you lack confidence in them,rather than suspecting some awful fault about to emerge. It will help if you post details of the engine brand/model.
Counsel of perfection says get it surveyed and insured, but I doubt that`s going to happen, at least get tow cover.

Unless I missed it what kind of engines are they? #1 thing you need to do is check all your tru hull fittings. IF you have any open ended fitting buy some pipe caps and cap them off. Check the oil about every 15 minutes while running until you get comfortable. Make sure the temp/oil gauge is functioning. Make sure you have a co2 fire extinguisher incase you have a run away. Bring lots of filters, fuel. Install racors to separate water from fuel. Make sure you anchor works, chain and rope in good shape. Buy a GPS that give you good up to date bottom depths, make damn sure the depth finder works. I could go on if this helps

When I say check oil, check for oil running out of the block. Valve covers/pressure lines/hydralic lines........

Thanks for all the tips, folks. I'm going to get a lot more details about the boat today, to include some closer inspection of the fuel tanks, the engines, the locations of everything, the electrical equipment, etc. I admit, I jumped into this rather blindly, just because my wife and I agreed on the "floor plan" (I don't what they call it in boat terms).

In the meanwhile, for folks who know the puget sound pretty well, there are spots between Bremerton and Olympia that you would recommend for good rates on things like filling up on diesel, getting the boat lifted out of the water for spraying down, painting, inspecting, etc.?

If I understand correctly this is a less than one day trip. You could consider getting a delivery capt. to give you a hand. That could well be worth the the modest cost.

The two most likely thing that could cause one or both of the engines to stop is fuel issues and overheating. If the boat has been setting for a while there is most likely some water in the fuel tank so extra filters are a must even for a short run.

If the engines are easy to start and don't smoke much that indicates they most likely have at least ok compression. My first concern would be to find out if they are running at the correct temperature and not overheating. You don't have to go far at all to find that out. I would assume some water and dirt issues in the fuel and be ready to deal with that.

An engine survey can cost a good bit of money because to do it correctly the injectors need to be removed and the compression on each cylinder checked.
A good diesel mechanic could start the engines and look and listen and give you at least a good idea. That would not cost very much.

I don't want to add to your worries but there are several other things that need to be checked by someone with enough experience to say they are most likely safe. A good delivery Capt can generally do these things. I assume no insurance company would cover the boat without a survey made with the boat hauled out.

If SeaTow is there in your area, get tow insurance with them. 800 4 seatow is a number I think you can call. Does not cost very much and well worth it when needed.

I have bought a couple of boats in the 36 to 42 foot range without a survey but I have a lot of boat building/repair experience. Having said that, it is likely pretty risky. Insurance for me is what I need at the dock for the most part. Can not rent a slip without it in many places now days.

Best of luck,

Billy

I don't recommend that you do what I did. The fact that I don't have deep pockets and the pockets that I do have have holes in them made my choice easy.

The 34' MT was bought at a price lower then the cost of a full survey, I have been around boats most of my life so decided that I would take a chance and
do the survey my self. The boat was a project boat I new that from the start.

The engine and running gear looked and sounded good, no steering from the FB but lower helm worked fine, had spare filters, tow ins. and my tool box.
Had food and water for at least three days.

It took me two days (about 18 hrs. total) to go from Apollo beach (Tampa bay) - Pine Island FL (Fort Myers area) not one problem on that trip. Although the pucker factor was noticeable. The ride down the ICW was for the most part was quite nice. Good luck on whatever decision you make.

Jovial, I don't have any specific recommendations for a yard. However, I would suggest that you find one ASAP. If possible, find one in Olympia close to you. I would also check around to see if there are any marine diesel shops in your area. If not, I would recommend Tacoma Diesel. They do a lot of marine work and have a good reputation. I have found them to be fair to deal with.

You also want to find a boatyard where they are experienced with woodies. Once again, I have no idea. While I just said it would be good to find a yard close to you, I think it would be even more important to find a yard that has the expertise you may need.

I bought an inexpensive boat. We called several surveyors and they all said it wasn't worth paying for one. It was better served using that money to fix the few problems it had. I believe (in my rookie experience) that if you pay more than $50,000 for a boat it should be surveyed. My insurance company did not require one in order to be insured. We took our boat on a lake for the shakedown cruise to see what worked and what didn't. After 9 months of work, we are finally ready to go on our trips

Hylobos marina would be a reasonable place for haulout.
They are in the commencement bay.
If you do not find something closer. Fuel is best at des moines marina.

Ok - I was out at the boat yesterday, and I believe I've identified the engines as a set of Isuzu diesels, model 6BB-1.

My opinion....

You are talking about a days run here, not a trip to Alaska (which I've done twice in brand new to me boats)

Start your engines and make sure there are no issues at the dock. That means no overheating, no major leaks, etc...

Then take the boat out on a hour test run under power. Again check for overheating, leaks, etc...

If that pans out drive the boat home, and start fixing her up.

Have some spare filters onboard. Have some tools in case something needs attention. I would have a buddy onboard so someone can check on things and or deal with issues without leaving the helm.

We bought our boat in Florida and needed to bring it to California where we live. Without a doubt, Towboat US is the cheapest insurance you can buy. We had to use it when we ended up anchored in the St Johns due to algae clogging our filters. After a fuel polish, we were back in business. We had a "stumble" going down the ICU and asked them to "stand by" for us which they did. Turned out to be some water passing through the injector and the boat made it to Miami with no problem. I can't say enough good things about Towboat US!

Isuzu generally makes really good engines. The devil is in how well they are marinized and installed. Looks like some home brew plumbing in view..

Make sure to check gear oil and have spare fuel filters, a bag of tools, a 1gal jug of fuel, a cell phone, a credit card, and a towboat membership.

Second others to take a couple hour shakedown run, even if you do it running in big circles near home dock. At least then the tow home won't take too long.

Edit: Pretty old engines!!

http://www.jsae.or.jp/autotech/data_e/10-5e.html

I did some more research, and I'm learning some things about marine engines that aren't the same as automotive engines. For example, "water pump" means one thing to me, but a marine engine (at least mine) has a "raw water pump." That's the issue with mine.

And I guess the main failure point on a raw water pump is the rubber impeller inside. I'll be starting there...

You should have two water pumps: The circulating pump (front center of engine, circulates antifreeze), and a raw water pump (not in view) that pumps sea water through a coolant heat exchanger and gear cooler. The rw pump will not be Isuzu, but will have been added by whoever adapted the engine to marine use. The pump should have some sort of maker's mark on it (Jabsco, Sherwood, Johnson, Oberdorfer, etc) and parts can be sourced directly from the particular maker or a pump vendor. RW pumps tend to be less reliable as they have to deal with corrosive sea water. We all end up having to service these after some number of years, and many of us carry spares.

Impellers fail, and shaft seals leak water. Those are the two typical failure modes.

After a start, always go look at the tailpipe and make sure water is coming out. That means the pump is pumping.

Post a photo of the RW pump.

Do the sea trial, if that goes off without problem then change oil and filters on the engines and transmissions. Buy a spare impeller for the pump with no problem now, have some fuel filters, antifreeze and oil onboard. Make sure all the navigation lights and vhf radio work and pick a good weather window to head out and go. I will also 2nd the suitable ground tackle in case there's a problem to attend to, I normally do a visual engine room check about once a hour for any type of leak. A new to you boat maybe more often on the maiden voyage.