Would you run aground on purpose

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skipperdude

skipperdude

Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
3,146
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Apache II
Vessel Make
1974 Donald Jones
I plan on grounding the boat this weekend I need to check out the keel. I hit a dead head or something last weekend*and I'm to cheap to hire a boat lift for this.

I know a sandy beach where the water go's out 6 or 8 ft. A friend of mine anchored his 36 ft sailboat there and wound up on the hard accidentally.

Shouldn't be a problem if I can just get her to lay on the side I want her to. I plan on using a kedge anchor off to port and ease her over on that side.

I have a couple of large bouy's. The plan is to use my hydraulic davit to snug them under the side to keep her from going all the way over on her side

Then Just hang out and wait for the tide to come back in.

Do you think I'm nuts?

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 10:13:00 AM
 
Be careful. Some boats will lie over on their chine just fine when the water goes out but when it comes back in there won't be enough water to begin to right the boat before it comes over the low gunwale and floods the boat. I know of a GB42 that was lost this way when it went aground on the mud coming out of the Swinomish Channel near La Conner. in Washington state. No damage done when the boat heeled over but it required a water depth to begin to float it that was higher than the low side of the deck. The boat flooded and stayed on the bottom and a salvage outfit on Whidbey Island ended up with the boat. I would be very leery of trying this unless I knew beforehand that the kind of boat I had would begin to right itself before the water level came over the low side.
 
No problem there.

The deck is totally water tight with scuppers to make the deck self bailing.

SD
 
The problem is not the deck, it's water running into vents, under cabin doors, around windows and hatches, etc. It's kind of a death-spiral situation. As water comes in it adds weight which in turn means more water is needed under the boat to float it. But the higher the water gets, the more will come in and the boat gets even heavier.

You say you plan on putting a couple of buoys under the low side of the boat.* Do you mean air-filled?* Are you sure they will support the weight of the boat without rupturing?* Are you sure they won't "squirt out" from under the side as the boat goes over?

Personally I would never do this with my boat. The risks are too high. What if as the tide goes out the hull settles on a small rock or piece of debris? You'll need to secure everything in and on the boat to keep it from falling off, out, or over. I don't like the idea of potentially jamming a through hull down into the mud. If I didn't want to pay the price of a proper haulout (and given the overall cost of boating a quick haulout is a drop in the bucket) I'd put the boat on a tidal grid if there is one in the area. That way the boat stays upright, the keel is supported properly, and the risk of flooding is non-existent.

Careening a boat (the correct term for what you're proposing) has been a tried and true method of working on a boat's bottom for centuries.* With the right boat and the right conditions it can work very well.* But it does carry an element of risk.* And since once your boat falls all the way over or the hull is damaged on something or it floods through a vent or some other opening you never thought it would flood through you can't undo that by going back in time, it's better, in my opinion, to elminate the risk altogether.

Unless, as I say, you know for certain that your boat can be successfully careened because other people have done it successfully with the same type of boat under the same conditions.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 10:37:19 AM
 
I appreciate you concern but I know the beach and as all my through *hulls are on the starboard side save one.**Now that you mention it*I will plug. It is the one for the bilge pump*in the engine room. My boat has 4 watertight compartments. The fish hold the fuel lazarette the engine room and the fo'c'sle.* she has a hard chine at the turn of the bilge and with the bouy's on that side I don't think she will go all the way over.

SD
 
GBs have a hard chine, too, and that is what the boat sits on (along with the keel) when the water goes out from under it. And with a GB twin, the props, shafts, struts, and rudders are so close inboard that they do not contact the bottom when the boat is careened like this. However the angle and weight of a careened GB is such that there is a risk of flooding before enough water is under the hull to begin to pick it up.

But if you're confident your idea will work then give it a shot. If it does work with no problems then you'll know and other people with similar boats will know, too. If it doesn't work, you can take comfort in the fact that anything can be fixed if you throw enough money at it :)
 
So let us know how this works out for you?


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 10:54:02 AM
 
Could you get some jack stands to support the boat upright? If the ground is solid enough that could help keep it up.
 
I would not ground if there where alternatives or*if it was*NOT*an*emergency.

Hire a diver. Use a grid.***

So how are you going to check the keel it is in/on the ground?*
 
Woodsong wrote:
Could you get some jack stands to support the boat upright? If the ground is solid enough that could help keep it up.
Click to expand...
*Water's to cold and I don't own a dry suit. That is why the bouy's

SD

*
 
Phil Fill wrote:
***So how are you going to check the keel it is in/on the ground?*
Click to expand...
*What ever I hit wasn't in shallow water. I'm sure it didn't strike the keel.

It was amidships on the starboard side.

Why pay for something when it isn't necessary.

Like Marin said if it works it works with nothing out of pocket.

I'm sure it will be fine. I have talked to commercial fishermen in the Sound. Lot of the have done this. Just the first time for me.

SD*
 
On the subject of deliberate groundings, people in Europe tend to be more clever than people in the US if for no other reason than they've been at it longer. With massive tides in the UK combined with beaches, bays, and harbors with very shallow slopes, it's not uncommon in some places like Morecambe Bay that when the tide is out the water is miles from the shoreline, literally out of sight over the horizon. So they long ago figured out how to deal with their boats going aground at their moorings every day and the designs of their boats reflect this requirement. Note the sailboat solution.

First shot is a typical small boat harbor in the UK, second shot is on Morecambe Bay, third shot is the town of Mousehole in Cornwall.* Mousehole is pronounced "mowzull" and the name has nothing to do with mice.
 

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In theory it looks possible. In practice it might end up costing a LOT more than a haul out or a diver...
 
Would you run aground on purpose?

I sure would, but not for the purpose you're considering.* Running her up on the beach is one of my emergency plans.* The Chesapeake is so shallow I figure I can beach her, or get close enough so that after the hull settles into the mud I'll still be fat, dumb and happy, and dry, up on the fly-bridge.* If the FL120 keeps turning long enough to get me there.

I'm not worried about the boat, just getting the crew & passengers to safety.
 
Willy wrote:
*
Click to expand...
*Hip waders, they come in handy for such things.

*

*Yep. Got chest waders. I'll be using them
 
As a kid, once in Useless Bay, Whidbey Island, we awoke on our 31' Trojan only to find us high and dry on the sand at low tide. Tide came back in, floated and no problem. Dad did a better job of looking at the tide chart after that.
 
skipperdude wrote:
I plan on grounding the boat this weekend I need to check out the keel. I hit a dead head or something last weekend*and I'm to cheap to hire a boat lift for this.

.................................

Do you think I'm nuts?

Yes, I think you are nuts.* How much is your boat worth vs. the cost of a haulout or a diver?

Would I ground my boat on purpose?* Yes, but only if it was sinking.
Click to expand...
*
 
rwidman wrote:*

Would I ground my boat on purpose?* Yes, but only if it was sinking.
Click to expand...
*

You left out, if it was on fire? *I would want to beach it so I could:

1. Get off

2. Enjoy the fire

3. *Make sure it burned to the keel (Wouldn't want the insurance company to raise it and give it back to me **
no.gif


*

Larry B
 
One other reason to question the careening of a modern fiberglass (or I suppose even steel or aluminum) boat, and that is that unless the hull is supported perfectly evenly the chances are good it will "wrack" a little bit as the weight settles onto the uneven bottom. Even a bottom that looks flat to your eye may not support the hull properly. And this wracking or twisting, however slight, could cause problems ranging from changing the engine-shaft alignment to cracking bulkheads or overstressing their attach points to cracking window glass to shifting fuel or water tanks in their mounts.

It will be interesting to hear how your boat fares in this experiment. I hope it does fine and you experience no problems. But I'm very glad it's your boat that's the guinea pig here and not mine :)
 
A man has got to know his limitations and the limitations of his equipment.

I live in an area with few services and those that are available are questionable at best.

Right now the travel lift is broken down again and the only trailer capable of hauling my boat is also on the mend as a friend had his boat holed trying to use said trailer.

with the re-vamp of the harbor going on the tide grid is unavailable.

As I am not a diver. I don't want to take someones elses discription of the hull of my boat. I want to see for myself.*

I am really not concerned about this at all.

It's an adventure and I am kind of looking forward to this.* There will be three other boats along for the fun.

Sort of "Hold My beer and watch this".

SD

*

*
 
Going back to your original post, you say you hit something but I gather you have so far not experienced any problem as a result? No leaks, cracks, vibration, funny noises, etc? If that is the case why not simply wait until the Travelift, tidal grid, or trailer are repaired and haul the boat with no risk. Or, as others have suggested, hire a competent diver and see what he finds. We have a diver dive on our boat twice a year and he gives very complete and clear descriptions of what he sees.

To quote one of RickB's comments from another discussion, careening your boat seems like it might be a solution that's in search of a problem :)
 
Several issues. One is time. Winter is coming on fast in my area. I have about 4 weeks before the winter storms start. There is no water coming in but there has to be a significant scar on the hull judging by the sound it made when I struck what ever it was. If I don't do something soon I will be stuck in the water till spring.

I am not really concerned about this venture. If I have to haul her I will stay on the hard for the winter. I'm not ready for that yet. If I had another way out of the water I would take advantage of it.

The beach I am going to use is softer than sand it is comprised of glacial silt and volcanic ash. I have seen other commercial fishing*boats in the same place.

The last reason is my pockets are not deep enough to pay for something I can do myself.

Thanks for your concern. I am certain everything will be fine. If the weather holds I will take some pics of the endeavor.

SD

Marin By the way thanks for the word* careening. I like it.


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 03:29:25 PM
 
*I* wouldn't do it! No way.
 
skipperdude, do you need some help. I would love to help watch and have a few beers my self. My boat has two keels. We don't get more than 2 or 3 foot of tidal difference but we have shallow everything around here. I don't see any problem that you would have but I would just to be on the safe side rent a trash pump. 2" gasoline powered pump, incase you have a problem you could pump it out as the tide rises. Good luck, I would also get some new zinks and some hammers to bang out any dents in the wheel.
 
One thing I would add is to be careful about head and galley thru hulls. If you have an outboard sink in the galley, for instance, water can back up through the thru hull and the sink since it will be lower than the rail of the hull. So the sink can sink the boat!
 
Your not in Thorne Bay are you? There's another thread you might be interested in.
 
skipperdude wrote:
I plan on grounding the boat this weekend I need to check out the keel. I hit a dead head or something last weekend*and I'm to cheap to hire a boat lift for this.

I know a sandy beach where the water go's out 6 or 8 ft. A friend of mine anchored his 36 ft sailboat there and wound up on the hard accidentally.

Shouldn't be a problem if I can just get her to lay on the side I want her to. I plan on using a kedge anchor off to port and ease her over on that side.

I have a couple of large bouy's. The plan is to use my hydraulic davit to snug them under the side to keep her from going all the way over on her side

Then Just hang out and wait for the tide to come back in.

Do you think I'm nuts?

SD

Skipperdude

Youre not nuts... just adventurous!* Early 70s while living in Maine on Penobscot Bay Id help beach older single screw, keel/skeg wooden Lobster Boats for full-on hull cleaning.* A tide for one side and next tide for other side plenty beer in between. *All ya gotta do is have the boat tied off into position (3 light*anchors pre set at short scope work well) and boat weighted correctly as keel rests on bottom (thats where the beer came in as we sat on opposing gunnel) **Used the same spot over and again...*we always knew what to expect for bottom conditions.* Thing I see with your soon to occur adventure is that we did it to full bottom clean.* For only a quick check on running gear,*keel, or hull wed simply jump in the water with mask on and flashlight to see what the F was up!* Know you said you dont dive... but you must have a boaten friend that does!* Them oblong things*DO come down out of mouth after getting used to the water temp for a couple minutes.* Then if damage looks too severe head her to a haul out!!* Also, Lobster Boats are low profile with real light (next to no) super structure height, therefore easy to float before rising water came over the low gunnel.* Yours??? I cant see by pict on forum too well... but looks to me that its a bit top heavy, as compared to the old LBs I helped do.* As Marin and others mentioned you dont want that baby to start taking on water before she pops up and starts to right herself.* IF that even begins to occur, you might be in trouble.* Youll need a six pack or more of friends hanging their arses way over the other side gunnel!* Just in case... be sure your ins will cover if S hits the fan!* Best luck!* If you do it I look forward to the picts you mentioned.

Cheers!*Art*
Click to expand...
*
 
I never want to let the boat's bottom touch anything, but if my hull was holed, a thru-hull let go, or similar... hell yea I would ground her on purpose, to keep her from sinking. That's a decision you need to make ahead of time, so that you don't waste precious time trying to decide if it happens to you.
 
If I was where you are, had the boat you had, and had to consider the other conditions you mentioned (including the softness of the beach selected), yeah, I would do it just the way you describe.
 
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