Diesel fuel polishing...

bayview said:

To The OP

I case it was not mentioned the vacuum gauges you want should have a needle that saves the highest reading because you may not be always watching them.

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Yes, that is correct. In my case, I bought one with a plunger that moves into different colored ranges to indicate vacuum. That was a mistake. It works but it's hard to see. My recommendation - don't buy it, buy the gauge that holds the needle at the highest vacuum encountered.

Hm... it seems to me that polishing is more than just filtering.

It also seems to me that filtering the fuel as you run the engine, or even transfer fuel, is much different than having your entire tankful of fuel filtered and polished before you take the boat out again.

I dont think polishing is any more than filtering.

Polishing is a recreational term as far as my marine engineer can relate.

Getting rid of particulates no matter what they are and water is the goal.

Filters do it fine, centrifuges bulk clean better than filters but dont filter finer or get a better percentage of water out...and some tanks just need to be opened and cleaned by hand.

Call it whatever you want, but in the end the desired result is the same and achieved the same, just with different methods...the terminology is hoopla.

I've been using Biobar for many decades and with the common rail Diesels I use a dual Racor that are 2 micron (secondary is also 2 mic). So far, so good.

psneeld said:

I dont think polishing is any more than filtering.

Polishing is a recreational term as far as my marine engineer can relate.

Getting rid of particulates no matter what they are and water is the goal.

Filters do it fine, centrifuges bulk clean better than filters but dont filter finer or get a better percentage of water out...and some tanks just need to be opened and cleaned by hand.

Call it whatever you want, but in the end the desired result is the same and achieved the same, just with different methods...the terminology is hoopla.

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Polishing is not simply a recreational term, nor is it simply a boating term. Systems with centrifuges still use your regular filters in addition. Fuel companies take their portable centrifuges to trucks regularly, and to tanks at various facilities. My marine engineer disagrees with yours. The science of polishing is well defined and the distinctions between polishing and filtering are made in many places by experienced fuel professionals and engineers.

There is also one other goal of polishing in addition to getting rid of larger particulates and of water. It is restoring the fuel to it's proper characteristics and permissible operating ranges. Not something filtering can do.

Empty the fuel tank and clean it.
Then use paraffin to slosh around the bottom of the tank and stir up any gunk with brushes, air hoses etc. Use a wet vacuum to extract everything from the tank. Inspect the tank and if its clean refill. If not repeat the process.
What is important is clean fuel when you refuel.
Raccor system are as others have repeated an over hyped way to part you from your cash.
Learn to change your own filters.
I use a CAT fuel filter/water separator and then the normal spin on fuel filter and have NEVER changed a filter when cruising (including some rough passages).
What is very desirable is a fuel tank sump drain cock, if you draw of a glass of fuel once a month it will drain off any water/sediment.
Keep it Simple.

Further research by my staff and I have been unable to find any decription of "fuel polishing" from the scientific community or petroleum industry.

All the descriptions of polishing seen to come from industries bent on cleaning your fuel or selling you things that claim to make your fuel "better". Yes, there are fuel "polishing systems" in place that handle or store large quantities of fuel to ensure the end user gets clean fuel.

Well, OK, but is there really any change in the fuel that is different than water and contaminent removal?

I cant find anything.

Yes ....the descriptions of polishing all talk about different levels of contaminant removal, but just that, with diffetent types of equipment. Nothing that actually changes the base fuel.....just cleans it.

I would like to see some white paper or research document from someone other than a cleanup or filter or centrifuge or algae x type company that explains how the fuel is "better" than well filtered and water separated diesel.

Fuel filtering , fuel polishing are all requirements from having water in the fuel tank.

A simple sump , well serviced allows just filtering to do the job .

The new electric injection folks might find 3 filters in series to finally get the delivered fuel clean enough

For most mechanical injection a pre filter switchable pair and the on engine is enough.

IF the fuel tank is clean and water free.

A Baja filter will go a long way to stopping/gunk water in the fuel delivery from entering the tank.

But there SO! Slow!!!

psneeld said:

Further research by my staff and I have been unable to find any decription of "fuel polishing" from the scientific community or petroleum industry.

All the descriptions of polishing seen to come from industries bent on cleaning your fuel or selling you things that claim to make your fuel "better". Yes, there are fuel "polishing systems" in place that handle or store large quantities of fuel to ensure the end user gets clean fuel.

Well, OK, but is there really any change in the fuel that is different than water and contaminent removal?

I cant find anything.

Yes ....the descriptions of polishing all talk about different levels of contaminant removal, but just that, with diffetent types of equipment. Nothing that actually changes the base fuel.....just cleans it.

I would like to see some white paper or research document from someone other than a cleanup or filter or centrifuge or algae x type company that explains how the fuel is "better" than well filtered and water separated diesel.

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Finally!

Polishing is a made up term for recreational boating.

Anyone who claims to be professional and speaks of fuel (or oil) cleanliness without using ISO numbers is a charlatan.

It's all about the math and polishing should be calculated on a case by case basis.....

A few years ago I had a customer proudly tell me how he just had his fuel "polished". When I asked him how much it cost he stated "Only $1100.00". "Eleven hundred!!!" I exclaimed; "Well, he had to come here from MA."

I left that conversation shaking my head because his boat had a 32 gallon tank with perhaps 20 gallons in it at most..

A month later his fuel sender failed. I went and replaced it & while there I got a look inside his recently "polished tank". The tank walls were filthy and covered in an asphaltine like black gum.

I grabbed a sample of his current fuel and it was completely cloudy.. $1100.00 in "polishsing" for what? The tank was not actually clean only the 20 gallons of fuel that had been in it were. Course with the tank walls still filthy it was already starting to cloud over. Heck even using a tiny fuel lift pump 20 gallons can be extracted and refilled with fresh fuel in no time at all.

Back to the math for this owner:

#1 Suck out 20 gallons of diesel and burn in owners oil fired boiler. Oil fired boilers are very tolerant of crappy fuel. Labor, about 20 minutes total. Net fuel cost is neutral as the energy is being used to heat owners hot water or home. Worst case you can give it to a shop that heats with a waste oil burner..

#2 Install SeaBuilt clean out port, about $154.00, and manually scrub the tank clean - Labor about 2 hours, if you're slow. Total is now at about $400.00 but you have a clean out port for future use and did not with his $1100.00 fuel polishing.

#3 Refill 20 gallons of diesel - Total about $50.00

Using the above math the customer is out about $400.00 in total but has a sparkling clean tank and brand new fresh fuel plus a clean out port for future use, none of which he got with his $1100.00 fuel polishing bill..

Unless you have massive tanks that require multiple clean out ports and hold lots of fuel I would look for other solutions.. In order to have clean fuel you need a clean tank and this is really only possible by actually physically cleaning it.

This photo was taken after:

"Religious use of Startron"
"Two shock (tank CLEANING) doses of Startron"
"$1100.00 in fuel polishing"

Scott and all

I can attest to how well algae x works. I bought one unit and attached it to my starboard engine fuel line. It clogged with crud and the Racors plugged also, the port engine had the same plugged Racors. So, being a scientist (LOL) I switched the algae x to the port side. If plugged with crud and so did the Racors and surprise, surprise this happened at the same time the starboard Racors plugged.

Conclusion: I wasted money on buying the algae x. This was with my old boat that had water in the fuel coming from some unknown place.

To me polishing is a marketing tool akin to filtering but costs the boater more.

Bigsfish said:

Scott and all

I can attest to how well algae x works. I bought one unit and attached it to my starboard engine fuel line. It clogged with crud and the Racors plugged also, the port engine had the same plugged Racors. So, being a scientist (LOL) I switched the algae x to the port side. If plugged with crud and so did the Racors and surprise, surprise this happened at the same time the starboard Racors plugged.

Conclusion: I wasted money on buying the algae x. This was with my old boat that had water in the fuel coming from some unknown place.

To me polishing is a marketing tool akin to filtering but costs the boater more.

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To me it has become a word game.

If you add oversized filters, a centrifuge, and a coalescing unit and return the fuel to something other than an engine, it appears that is polishing.

Well, heck..... add all that to a boat that can get bad fuel, hold it in huge tanks and keep it there for long periods of time...sure it makes sense.

But for most of us, none of its needed if you manage your fuel load well and dont get a bad load of fuel. At worst, having an oversized 2 micron filter that you recirc as you see fit, should give you the same fuel quality as recently and properly "polished" fuel will.

And especially what CMS pointed out....do the math.

I had all 3 of our tanks cleaned professionally--money well-spent. I plan to filter fuel from our two 350-gallon saddle tanks to the 200+ gallon aft tank each day before leaving the dock. The transfer pump moves fuel quickly and it runs it through a large paper towel roll filter. From there, it goes through the usual Racors.

At the end of a cruise, whatever's in the day tank will be returned to the saddle tanks. My theory is that I'll be running on freshly filtered fuel without much chance of crud--when it eventually returns to the saddle tanks--being stirred up and clogging the Racors. The day tank is pristine and the clean out port is infinitely easier to access and inspect than the saddle tanks. We'll see how all this works in practice.

angus99 said:

I had all 3 of our tanks cleaned professionally--money well-spent. I plan to filter fuel from our two 350-gallon saddle tanks to the 200+ gallon aft tank each day before leaving the dock. The transfer pump moves fuel quickly and it runs it through a large paper towel roll filter. From there, it goes through the usual Racors.

At the end of a cruise, whatever's in the day tank will be returned to the saddle tanks. My theory is that I'll be running on freshly filtered fuel without much chance of crud--when it eventually returns to the saddle tanks--being stirred up and clogging the Racors. The day tank is pristine and the clean out port is infinitely easier to access and inspect than the saddle tanks. We'll see how all this works in practice.

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Howdy Angus,
Are you sure about the capacities of your saddle/aft tanks? I just did an inspection/cleaning of the tanks on my 2005 Defever 44. Afterwards, I measured the new fuel going into the saddle tanks and put calibration marks on the sight glasses. I only put 200gal in each tank, but looking at the sight glasses, I don't think another 150gal would fit in there. I've always been under the assumption that the saddle tanks were ~250gal each, and the aft was ~450gal. Curious if the tank design might have changed since your production year.

I also use my aft tank as a "day tank", but don't intend to transfer fuel out of it to the saddles. I have a circ pump on a timer with a 2mic filter that I run once a week to keep things sweet. I built an additional valve manifold system and ran additional tubing that allows the circ pump to take a suction off of the lowest tap on the aft tank (about 1" lower than the normal fuel supply line tap). This is right at the bottom of the V shaped tank, and is the next best thing to having a trash sump in the tank.

Regarding the ease of removal of the aft tank inspection hatch....I agree (unfortunately) as I had to remove mine twice! Once for the cleaning/inspection, then again the next week when I discovered a dead spot in the fuel gauge sender, and had to replace it. It seems that when our pals in China fabricated the tank flange for the gauge, they used a pipe that was about 3/16" too small for the sender's resistor to pass through. So....off comes the ~40 hatch nuts for the second time so I could install the sender from inside the tank! After this weekend's cruise, I'll use my higher capacity portable filter skid that has a flow meter, to calibrate the new aft tank gauge.....no more guessing how much fuel is in there!

Gotta love working on boats cause that represents most of our time aboard!
Luke

Have used a Gulf Coast F1 filter container with paper towel filters for 15 years. These are built for trucks and are inexpensive. After my use the paper towel filter is dirty and the fluid I drain out contains some water. Not bad for a cheap system. All this system does is take fuel from the bottom of the tank and return it to the top of the tank.

greysailor said:

Howdy Angus,
Are you sure about the capacities of your saddle/aft tanks? I just did an inspection/cleaning of the tanks on my 2005 Defever 44. Afterwards, I measured the new fuel going into the saddle tanks and put calibration marks on the sight glasses. I only put 200gal in each tank, but looking at the sight glasses, I don't think another 150gal would fit in there. I've always been under the assumption that the saddle tanks were ~250gal each, and the aft was ~450gal. Curious if the tank design might have changed since your production year.

I also use my aft tank as a "day tank", but don't intend to transfer fuel out of it to the saddles. I have a circ pump on a timer with a 2mic filter that I run once a week to keep things sweet. I built an additional valve manifold system and ran additional tubing that allows the circ pump to take a suction off of the lowest tap on the aft tank (about 1" lower than the normal fuel supply line tap). This is right at the bottom of the V shaped tank, and is the next best thing to having a trash sump in the tank.

Gotta love working on boats cause that represents most of our time aboard!
Luke

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Hey, Luke. I should have said the capacities were estimates since I haven't filled them yet. I was given those capacities for our boat and have seen some printed references to 375-gal saddle tanks in Defever 44s and 44+5s, but I don't know for sure what's correct. Just spitballing the dimensions of the aft tank, I get 45,000 cubic inches, which is about 195 gallons. I have those lower taps on my tanks as well, but mine look like they've been plugged with fiberglass resin or something similar. I wish I could use them.

"I have those lower taps on my tanks as well, but mine look like they've been plugged with fiberglass resin or something similar. I wish I could use them."

Before you fill the tank sounds like a small drill and proper sized tap might get a low point drain.

Clearing polly or other filler in the fitting is far easier with a tap as most plastic simply crumbles , unlike tapping metal.

FF said:

"I have those lower taps on my tanks as well, but mine look like they've been plugged with fiberglass resin or something similar. I wish I could use them."

Before you fill the tank sounds like a small drill and proper sized tap might get a low point drain.

Clearing polly or other filler in the fitting is far easier with a tap as most plastic simply crumbles , unlike tapping metal.

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Thanks, Fred. I'll give it a closer look.

If you clean the tap , use a fuel rated valve , and plug the valve "just in case" when its not being used as a low point drain.

Northern Spy said:

Finally!

Polishing is a made up term for recreational boating.

Anyone who claims to be professional and speaks of fuel (or oil) cleanliness without using ISO numbers is a charlatan.

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Aha, those who do this stuff for a living and have the qualifications are beginning to chime in. Thanks RB and Spy.

I noticed your name vs your location. The delta is a long ways from Grass Valley. Do you keep your boat in the delta or up the American River? I'm in Redwood City and I love to run up to Sacramento at least once a year.

Thanks,

Dave

Algae-x is a biocide and also has a fuel line product that has a magnet inside. I don't remember the talk, but the magnet does some hocus pocus to the diesel.
As I said before, my boat sat for 6 years with no care. Using Algae-x cleaned whatever was in the tanks built in 1942. I found the magnet catches all the little steel particles coming off the tanks before my filters. Anything else is gravy. 3 main tanks of about 600 gallons each, when finally opened years later were clear of sludge of any kind. And I run 2 micron primaries.

Our boat is in Isleton on 7 mile slough, home is Grass Valley, about an hour and a half commute (depending on traffic). We spend most weekends on the boat though, we plan on living aboard once we fully retire.

Lepke said:

Algae-x is a biocide and also has a fuel line product that has a magnet inside. I don't remember the talk, but the magnet does some hocus pocus to the diesel.
As I said before, my boat sat for 6 years with no care.

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Ours pretty much sat for 10 years with very little use and half full tanks.
We have since put 800 hours on her without a hint of pressure on the gauges.
No biocide, no magnets, no hocus pocus and no crap in the racor 1000's

Every couple of months I drain a couple of lites out of the crap trap/sump below the pickups, let it settle overnight and tip it back in as its always clean.

"Every couple of months I drain a couple of lites out of the crap trap/sump below the pickups, let it settle overnight and tip it back in as its always clean.

No biocide, no magnets, no hocus pocus and no crap in the racor 1000's"

As it should be, your boat was built with a Fuel Tank, instead of a Box for Fuel.