Bring-Home cruise

Driving up to Providence RI tomorrow to deliver our new (to us) 1987 Hershine 37 trawler down to the Chesapeake. It's in OK, but not perfect, shape, so I have a plan A, Plan B and Plan C in place just in case. Assuming everything goes with Plan A, we'll leave Providence the first of the week and head down Long Island Sound, passing through NYC on Thursday or Friday. The big unknown will be the weather for the passage off of NJ so we plan on hanging out in either Kills Harbor or Sandy Hook (depending on wind direction) and hopefully jump down the outside to Atlantic City then Cape May. We'd prefer not to do the NJ ICW, but will if the weather is not compatible with the outside route.

We're new to the East Coast (lots of cruising in the Pacific North Wet) so things are a bit different than we're used to. Luckily, we're not bound by a tight schedule, so we may be reading some good books waiting for the appropriate weather windows.

Any and all advice cheerfully listened to (but no guarantee that it will be complied with).

*

Thanks,

dvd


-- Edited by dvd on Saturday 20th of August 2011 07:16:15 PM

Exciting from both the stand point of the voyge and the new to you boat.* Please keep us up.* Best wishes on your trip and you boat.

There is a Hershine here in Thorne Bay. It's at least a 42 in fair shape w water damage in the cabin. Has twin Volvos. For sale cheap. I know the owner. Anybody interested?

dvd, I would be interested in what things you find WAY different on the right coast. Having never been there everything I think I know about the east is second hand and mostly from easterners. Hope you like the Hershine as well.

The biggest difference I've noticed on the East Coast is the weather -- I haven't learned/experienced the seasonal or even the daily weather patterns enough to know what to expect. After many, many decades on the West Coast predicting the weather was second nature to me and I was rarely surprised. Here, the weather surprises me almost every day. As far as the boating goes, people I've met here don't seem to spend as much time away from the dock, and when they do go somewhere, it's to another dock. Many marinas are more like destination resorts with pools, restaurants, bars, entertainment, etc. If these existed on the West Coast, they weren't the ones I frequented (Roche Harbor excepted). Also, mooring is much more popular than anchoring. Almost every harbor or inlet is covered with mooring balls and some people I have met have owned their boats for 20-30 years and have never used their anchor.

Most people here pull their boats for the winter and shrink-wrap them. Maybe that has caught on recently out west, but I never remember that being done out there. I winterized my boats to protect against freezing, but never pulled them for the winter.

There also seems to be more of the "yachting" (as in paying someone to fix your boat) crowd here and more of the full-time-crew yachts, although S. Cal may compete on that one. I must admit that most of my experience so far has been in New England where I bought the boat. I am looking forward to cruising the Chesapeake, and things may be different there.

For several years I had a Willard 30 in Portland before sailing it up to Puget Sound where I kept it for a few more years. Had a great time cruising the San Juan and Gulf Islands. Hope to have as much fun in the Chesapeake.

dvd

Thanks David,

Just what I wanted to hear......not the facts but the jist of it. Was perfect. Gave me a bit of focus that an easterner could'nt provide. When do we get to see pics of your new boat? So you had a W30. were you on WBO in Yahoo groups? Looks like your'e on the stern of a CHB in your avitar. Keep me posted ......that's all we do here is post. I'll bet you get home sick.

Eric,

No, I was not on the WBO - don't know if it existed back then. I sold the boat around 1998. The boat in my avatar is the Hershine. The hull is somewhat typical for a TT, but there is a pronounced bow flare that reminds more of the Albin 36 (maybe 34?). Although built by Hershine, it was imported by a company back here called Newburyport, so it's also known as a Newburyport 37. I'll attach a couple of the broker's photos.

Should it be necessary, Manasquan inlet is fairly easy to enter and take that stretch of the NJICW down as far as Atlantic City. While it is shallow, it is very well marked and should have at least 5ft in the channels. Did it in 2005, so quite a while ago. Absecon Inlet (Atlantic City) also good to enter. While Barnegat has been improved over the years, can still be a problem entering (located between the above 2). Cape may is 3hrs south of Absecon and also very good inlet to enter. Would not take the ICW south from Atlantic City to Cape May as extremely shallow. Hope this helps.

David,

I like that boat and it's not like the Hershine here at all. Don't like the black canvas though. It has beautiful lines like the 34 CHB that I like so well. Looks much bigger than the 34 CHB though. I see the Albin connection. There are at least 3 totally different Albin boats seemingly made by totally different people and it looks to me like Hershine may have traveled a path like Albin. Your H37 looks VERY roomy. I don't think a highly flared bow is of much value from a design standpoint but most of the time they look really good. I have an 18 ft outboard w a quite pronounced flared bow and don't see any advantage to it but people respond to it very positively.

*

Paul,

Seems to me we talked 2 or 3 years ago perhaps about engines. I like your boat better than mine. It's bigger. They seem very very similar. Is your boat on the Photo Album. Sure would like to see it there.


*

nomadwilly wrote:
I don't think a highly flared bow is of much value from a design standpoint but most of the time they look really good. I have an 18 ft outboard w a quite pronounced flared bow and don't see any advantage to it but people respond to it very positively.

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*Eric, you need to come East to "downeast North Carolina" if not the home of the flared bow, it was prefected there.* The great NC boat builders Buddy Davis, Rose Brothers, Gutherie, Jarret Bay*and many more learned the value of the exaggerated*flared bow for*running NC inlets and fishing in most any weather.* To run out Oregon Inlet in the early morning watching the sun shine through the* crystal water in a graceful arch*thrown aside by the flared bow is a thing of beauty. (How's that for being descriptive, Eric?)* the flared bow is the hallmark of*a Carolina boat.* They don't call it the Carolina flare for nothing!*





As can be see here, these big, powerful Carolina built sports fishermen don't slow down for much.* They will cruise through big, sloppy seas at 30 knots.

-- Edited by Moonstruck on Sunday 21st of August 2011 09:48:38 AM



-- Edited by Moonstruck on Sunday 21st of August 2011 10:08:47 AM



-- Edited by Moonstruck on Sunday 21st of August 2011 10:09:45 AM


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Sunday 21st of August 2011 10:25:40 AM

Well I've strayed again it seems. Should have made it clear I was talking about exaggerated and hollow flared bows sorta like the CHB and Albin 36. And yes .....nearly every boat has flare in it's bow and is there for very good reasons as William Atkin says. Once you get to a certain point though more flare is just embellishment and style. Form dosn't follow function anymore *.....it becomes function *...in the sales department. And yes I'm aware of the highly flared bows coming from your Carolina area. And while running inlets w very steep seas exaggerated flare may be more than embellishment. One dos'nt want to go through such seas and extreme conditions may call for extreme flare. To that end I'd rather see straight flare that spreads the lift over more time and does more to keep the boat up and on top of waves rather than in them like a submarine. Good point Don.

"I don't think a highly flared bow is of much value from a design standpoint but most of the time they look really good. I have an 18 ft outboard w a quite pronounced flared bow and don't see any advantage to it but people respond to it very positively."

My Albin has a very flared bow and that gives it a great advantage from what I have seen. It is very rare that I ever get any spray on the deck, never on the windows when other trawlers w/o a flare are soaked.

*

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The flare may be responsible for your dry ride but most of the hydrodynamics causing the spray could be coming from the shape of the hull nearer the chine and water line than way up at the gunn'l. Another disadvantage I see to extreme flare is the huge deck area at the extreme bow. If the flare is able to keep the green heavy water below the gunn'l so much the better but if the highly flared bow ever gets into a wave there's far less chance it will be able to rise to the occasion and lift the boat up and over the wave. A lot of heavy water on the bow would go along way toward keeping the bow inside the wave and then taking out the front windows of the cabin. A flared bow like your Albin is in excellent taste and looks great but the bow on the magazine cover below is downright ugly * *......and ugly is of course an opinion. Mine in this case.

On the other hand.....* a GB like ours has very little flare at all in the bow and the result on a windy, choppy day is a deck that's running with water (which is actually good for the teak so I don't really* mind it but you don't want to be going out on the foredeck under these conditions).* I think the GB, particularly the later ones with big engines that can be pushed along at 12-16 knots, could have benefited from more flare in the bow.* I think*a boat looks a lot*nicer without much flare but from a practical standpoint I think it can be very helpful in many situations as Don's photo of the sportfisherman going through the wave shows.

While I like the aesthetics of the GB hull's forebody I think Kenneth Smith, who designed the GB hull, could have been a bit less stingy with his flare pencil.

*

Flares and especially exaggerated flares, cost in two ways--Space and reserve bouyancy.* Lower sections of the bow have to be narrower.* That gives up space in forward cabins.* The narrower sections also give up bouyancy by giving up volume.* The big Carolina Sports fishermen with modified V hulls tend to run with bow high and out of the water.* When coming down on a wave, the exaggerated flare has a good deal of dynamic lift from pressure, but not from bouyancy.

There is a happy medium that can be achieved.* Some boats hold down spray with spray rails and reverse chines.* For a displacement hull riding through rather than on the water, a little flare is a good thing.* No question that Grand Banks had the looks.* It was one of the most successful selling designs ever.* The Grand Banks captured the boating publics' imagination and dreams of far off places.* Can't argue with success.* As I say, the market can reward a good design, but it can severely punish a bad one.

Moonstruck wrote:
* When coming down on a wave, the exaggerated flare has a good deal of dynamic lift from pressure, but not from bouyancy.

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* * * * I've been told by a NA in San Diego that boats with excessive flare recover faster when coming off a wave for the above stated reason.

Good points all. I designed and built a boat that had a bow that was a 45 degree V from keel to gunn'l w no chine. In Dixon Entrance once I was running on following seas 12' or so high. Full throttle climbing up the backside, chop the throttle at just the right time to prevent an exaggerated plunge into the next sea and for a period of time I rode on the face of the wave ....this is the interesting part .....the fore deck was flush with the surface of the face of the wave as the water went rushing by. Prop stayed in the water and kept me straight and all went as well as could be expected but I was amazed at the sight of the fore deck flush w the wave face. Since then (70s) I've wondered how other bows would have responded to the same conditions. I think an exaggerated flare typical of the Carolina sport fishermen would have done well in this situation provided there was enough rudder to control the stern.

Marin, * *

The wetness of the GB has always made me wonder what causes it. Plenty of volume fwd, probably enough flare (I see considerable flare in the boat on the right in Marin's pic) but the flare present is further aft than on most trawlers. The helmsman is very far fwd so the spray and/or slop is, shall we say, in his face. That probably adds to the "reputation". But not to be over looked also is the unusually plumb stem. Much of the activity of the interaction w the hull and the water is well fwd compared to most boats so perhaps the flare on the GB is basically too little too late. All these flare producing elements of design together are probably "the cause" whereas any one alone would'nt get the job done. Speaking of the near vertical stem I believe this feature is what made the GB a classic more than any other. And some elements of design we just like a lot whether for better or for worse we just plain like things like flared bows and vertical stems.*

nomadwilly wrote:
The wetness of the GB has always made me wonder what causes it.

Click to expand...

I think it's pretty simple.* With relatively little flare forward, waves, particuarly the closely-spaced, steep-sided wind waves one gets on bodies of water like Bellingham Bay, Rosario Strait, etc. whack into the "slab-sided" hull and instead of climbing the hull and being pushed out as they are with a more flared bow the water climbs pretty much straight up and clears the bulwark at which point the wind blows it all onto the boat.** This is what we see from the helm of our boat when heading into, particularly at an angle, these kinds of waves.* The water shoots straight up alongside the handrails in the bow and most of it gets blown over the bulwarks onto the boat.* If one owns a GB, one becomes extremely grateful for effective windshield wipers

When GB's began getting larger and larger engines in the late 1980s and beyond, the boats could be driven faster and the wet-ride "problem" became signficantly worse.* So they started incorporating a so-called spray-rail into the forward part of the hull to help reduce the water climbing the hull.* Any newer GB with a total horsepower above a certain amount (I can't remember the figure but it's something like 400 hp) will have these spray rails.

As a historical bit of trivia, the two primary US manufacturers of PT boats in WWII were Elco and Higgins.* While both boats were designed to meet the same mission requirement, outside of using the same type and number of engines the two boats were very different in design and configuration.* The Higgins, while considered by many to be more maneuverable, was disliked by crews for having an extremely wet ride, particularly at speed.* By comparison, the Elco was "a Cadillac" and was considered a very dry boat. Here are two similar shots I pulled off the web.* The Higgins is on the left, the Elco on the right.* While it may not be readily apparent in these photos the Higgins had considerably less flare in the bow and, like the GB, threw water much higher at which point the wind and the boat's forward speed put most of the water on deck.





-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 23rd of August 2011 09:38:55 AM

I have no windshield wipers at all on Willy and hardly miss them. I remember some folks in Wash that went to Alaska every year cruising extensively. They had steel boat about 45' and had thick plexiglass or Lexan windows. I asked him how he got along w/o wipers and he said * "don't need'um". Willy has done fine almost all the time w/o wipers and I think it's for two reasons. She has no spray rails and goes very slow. Spray rails make spray. They spit water out at somewhat high velocity like a garden hose. The finer the spray the easier the wind can blow it onto your boat. Coarse broken water in lumps the size of blueberries, cherries or even prunes (sorry guys I haven't had breakfast) will not be blown so readily onto one's boat. If you threw a bucket of water into the wind you'd not get very wet (or not wet at all) but if you adjusted a garden hose for fine spray and directed the spray into the wind you'd get soaked. Marin, perhaps it's the knuckle under your cap rail that turns the water into fine enough spray to let the wind have it's way.

nomadwilly wrote:
Marin, perhaps it's the knuckle under your cap rail that turns the water into fine enough spray to let the wind have it's way.

Click to expand...

I have no doubt that you're right.* The full-length rub rail below the cap rail would indeed break up the water climbing the hull from a wave.* And the spray that comes aboard on a windy day is not so fine.* It's actually pretty heavy.* Also, I've noticed that the basic act of the hull moving through the water as well as the hard impact of waves against the hull break up the water, too.*

In any event, between all these things the GB hull throws a lot of spray into the air when bashing through waves at even 6-8 knots-- particularly when quartering them--- and the wind does a fine job of blowing it all back onto the boat.* Fortunately our wipers work extremely well which is a good thing as it's more common than not to have to run at least the center pantorgraph wiper pretty much the entire way across the bay (five miles) on windy days.


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 23rd of August 2011 10:21:42 AM

Since we're cracking on the Albin and GB, here's another disadvantage to the large Albin flare. It has to be carefully blocked while being lifted to keep the straps parallel so the hull doesn't crush. Kind of a PIA.

Well that Hershine flare has helped keep me dry the last couple of days coming down LI Sound and through the Narrows down to Sandy Hook. 2-4 ft seas with winds up to 35 knts. Going hunting up nearby rivers tomorrow looking for a hurricane hole.

Exciting from both the stand point of the voyge and the new to you boat.* Please keep us up.* Best wishes on your trip and you boat.

What a kick in the a$$...having to run from Irene on 1st trip in new boat.* Good luck & when you curse the rain, know there's someone somewhere that would love to have it.

Beginning to think I bought a trailer boat. Being hauled in the AM for the third time in three months (survey, bottom job, hurricane haul).

My hurricane hole.

Hope your trip was a pleasent one! I am about to embark on the same trip, I just purchased a 37 ft Mainship Motoryacht with twin*454s*in Braintree Mass.*The trip will be in May sometime. I am*trying to make*a decision on Long*Island - outside or inside.

*********Which inlets did you*use because I*do not know the waters*from Cape may Nj and North*but I am very familer with the Delaware*river and the chesapeake bay, north of the Bay Bridge*

**********I see you are in the Philadelphia area, I live in West Norrton area just outside Phila.** We could trade info.******

Going down Long Island Sound will give you much more protected water than a route south of the island and will also give you more options for anchorages. Besides, it's kind of fun going down the East River through NYC -- just time your passage through Hell Gate so you are running with the tide and be prepared for lots of traffic.

After Irene, we anchored in Sandy Hook then did a straight shot to Atlantic City -- about 10-11 hrs. at 7.5 knots. There are other inlets, but they are subject to shoaling and I didn't want to be the first one trying them out after the hurricane. We spent the next night at Cape May, then the next day we went through the Cape May canal, caught a favorable tide up Delaware Bay , went through the Chesapeake-Delaware Canal and anchored in Bohemia River (another long day, but Irene had messed up our schedule).

Congratulations on your new purchase and good luck on your trip south.

dvd