Where to start?

My wife and I have decided to get a family trawler for cruising the northwest and beyond

*We have no clue where to start and no idea what we need.... But we have started A wish/want list... We were hoping some of you could steer us..

*

Us Early 40s, not retiring anytime soon Twins about turn two

She : schoolteacher (summers off)

Must haves: separate stateroom for mom/dad, don't need walk around berth Real shower/head No projects/repairs immediately needed Convertible sleeping are for kids Enclosed helm, no canvas "pilot house" Safety is paramount. Reliability is paramount 500nm range, weeks worth of freezer/fridge space Under 40 feet

*

Nice to have Laundry facilities Simple to maintain No flybridge No exterior woodwork Turn key (no upgrades needed) Located in pacific northwest Under 38 feet Less than 3-4gph at 6-8 knots Not a lot of interior wood Space to fit a kids friend or two High railings etc. Where should we start looking?


-- Edited by Badger on Monday 15th of August 2011 08:11:18 AM

iPad is not letting me edit properly...

While the shape and interior volume seem to be worked out , the question of how the boat will be operated , marina to marina, or anchored out will be the key.

There are loads of dock queens that can stagger from marina to marina , where power and water are ready to operate your freezer and laundromat .

It would be quite rare to find a true cruising boat with the ability to not need a marina ('cept for fuel) so turnkey may be a dream.

You have a goof idea of the interior you need , its time to bone up on Your method of cruising.

A dock queen with noisemaker at least 8 hours a day would work, if that fits your desirements.

Certainly not a dock queen.* Sure we would llike to use the boat as entertainment space and we do intend on mooring it at a dock less than 15 minutes from the house, but*cruising the Puget Sound and inside passage up to Alaska in complete safety are our main goals.* Make smart decisions based on the weather, but being able to handle a misjudgement or getting caught off guard.

*

We don't have any ocean going cruising planned, other than someday I would like to cruise south in retirment and not come back....

Sounds like you are describing a Nordic Tug 37.

There is a Seattle boat Afloat Show*on Lake Union mid September which would be a good start to compare boats as to layout, size, creature comforts.**
*
Our boat the*Eagle is a dock queen as she does not leave the dock much but is well maintained*and capable.* *

Planned on the boat show...

*

Most of the Nordic's we have seen have exterior wood.* I seem to think that some of the newer ones do not...* When was that transition made?

I think we might head up to Anacortes to visit with the Nordic broker up there...

What's the budget?

1$ to $350,000

*

*

Badger,

"Most of the Nordic's we have seen have exterior wood."

Really! I consider Nordic Tugs to be about as void of teak as any trawler. They did have teak doors on earlier models but compare them to other boats. A door is a lot easier to deal w than cap rails. I did a lot of shopping on-line this last winter and concluded the 32 NT was about the best trawler available. Excellent Cummins engines, three cabin raised pilot house configuration that I think is unbeatable, trouble free aluminum fuel tank, fuel tank in lazarette (accessibility), highly supportive owners, made in USA (builder near you) and it's a good looking boat except the fwd cabin shape and funnel. THere's even a dealer in Juneau. I was very keen to buy the turquoise one on yachtworld for $99K (I think it's still there). Had to pass on the Yanmar engine as the parts and service availability are bad. Would need to get it at a price that would allow for most of the cost of a repower. I say most as the opportunity to be able to select a smaller engine I'd consider a plus. The only iffy thing about the NT 32 that I can think of is the bulsa cored deck and cabin structure. The 37 may be just as good a boat but I know nothing about them. Tooo big for me.......and too expensive. Good hunting.

If 8 hours or so of noisemaker a day is OK , sounds like an easy task to find a boat.

Many noisemakers are quiet , and would cost far less than getting/creating a good boon docker.

But then again I have to ask why a "trawler" not a motor yacht or an old fish killer.

You will have a far better chance of finding a real GRP boat , no buried plywood ,no teak, that is far less hassle to maintain over the years.

Would like to have the availibility of a generator, but not neccessary. Laundry, I am assuming would be the biggest need. We can always do that off of shore power and a stop along the way...

I have never been on a Nordic tug. Just seen a few at the docks. Three staterooms would be ideal with the kids (boy girl twins)... The 26's we have seen have had exterior wood.

Trawler... fuel efficiency and it is more about the journey than getting there. Trawlers tend to be built heavy. Do not want I/O drives. Do not want huge twin engines to maintain/fuel. Don't want to run a fast boat slow.

If it takes us 3-4days to get somewhere, ok. If it takes a week and we have it to take off the better.

That's a very impressive budget. Assuming you're not looking to spend it all, and you're looking for value AND separate spaces under 40, I'd be tempted to look at an Endeavour 36 powercat. Three separate, permanent staterooms (yes, three), big galley, huge head, great salon, protected helm (although you may want to use stratoglass ILO canvas on rear, very wide side decks, huge expansive bow area (great for kids). It's a boat with good sized separate spaces that the adults can divide themselves from when the kids have to run. You can hide out in either stern cabin (one in each hull) or in the athwart-ships bow cabin with your own TV, comfort and door. Twin Yanmar 125's push it easily to the mid teens, and has trawler style fuel consumption below 10 knots. A stable platform for family cruising, and surfaces are low maintenance. Easy to handle and dock, low profile for low windage. Bridge deck does sneeze in higher head seas, and one must get used to a much more snappy motion instead of the roll of a mono-hull. Yes, it has an engine in each hull, but there's at least two that I know of that run regularly on one engine, trading hours off and on while cruising. Looking for three staterooms in an under 40 mono-hull may be a challenge unless you are willing to convert the dinette all the time. *Look for numbers to be below 150K or so.


-- Edited by healhustler on Monday 15th of August 2011 05:06:32 PM

Badger wrote:
My wife and I have decided to get a family trawler for cruising the northwest and beyond

*We have no clue where to start and no idea what we need.... But we have started A wish/want list... We were hoping some of you could steer us..

*Us Early 40s, not retiring anytime soon Twins about turn two

She : schoolteacher (summers off)

Must haves: separate stateroom for mom/dad, don't need walk around berth Real shower/head No projects/repairs immediately needed Convertible sleeping are for kids Enclosed helm, no canvas "pilot house" Safety is paramount. Reliability is paramount 500nm range, weeks worth of freezer/fridge space Under 40 feet

*Nice to have Laundry facilities Simple to maintain No flybridge No exterior woodwork Turn key (no upgrades needed) Located in pacific northwest Under 38 feet Less than 3-4gph at 6-8 knots Not a lot of interior wood Space to fit a kids friend or two High railings etc. Where should we start looking?



-- Edited by Badger on Monday 15th of August 2011 08:11:18 AM

Click to expand...

*Badger, the link below on yachtworld.com focuses on trawlers in Washington below $350,000, and as you can see, there are lots of choices.* You might peruse this to get an idea of what the options are.* With young twins, you are looking at quite a few years of summer cruising before they would rather poke themselves in the eye with a clam knife than spend time with the fam on a boat, so it would be good to get something of good quality, and handsome enough that you can be proud of it for a few years.* The only caution is that family cruising requires that the admiral really want to do it.* Most young women seem to want to, but certainly not all, so.....

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?toPrice=350000&searchtype=advancedsearch&type=(Power) Trawler&Ntk=boatsEN&hmid=0&sm=3&enid=0&luom=126&currencyid=100&cit=true&boatsAddedSelected=-1&fromPrice=150000&ftid=0&spid=146&slim=quick&No=0

Been looking there a lot, especially at this http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...nits=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=74772&url=

We did have our eyes on the Nordic tugs as well... I haven't seen an American tug in our price range yet.

I asked an open ended question as we are really open to ideas. I like the idea of a smaller 30ish foot boat, but I don't think we will be comfortable as the kids grow. We don't know anyone with a boat larger than 25 feet and that trailers.

We both took a power squadron course this summer and plan on bare chartering a few times before we decide if it is right for us.

My wife and I are more about function than form... Though a tug style is what we have both gravitated towards.

Badger wrote:

My wife and I are more about function than form... Though a tug style is what we have both gravitated towards.

Click to expand...

*Badger: *I probably should have added in recommending the Endeavour, that it is definitely a function over form device, and for the most part, I find Cats ugly, but functional. *Tugs, on the other hand, have great character, and if you can afford function with character, I highly recommend it.

Badger wrote:
Been looking there a lot, especially at this http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...nits=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=74772&url=

We did have our eyes on the Nordic tugs as well... I haven't seen an American tug in our price range yet.

I asked an open ended question as we are really open to ideas. I like the idea of a smaller 30ish foot boat, but I don't think we will be comfortable as the kids grow. We don't know anyone with a boat larger than 25 feet and that trailers.

We both took a power squadron course this summer and plan on bare chartering a few times before we decide if it is right for us.

My wife and I are more about function than form... Though a tug style is what we have both gravitated towards.

Click to expand...

*Boy, there is a lot to like about that boat.* And if you are attracted to this particular boat, then you have an idea in your head about what is shippy and what is not.* I agree with your assessment, and that means you probably won't be happy with a McBoat.

Although the Seahorse Marine Coot's basic list price recently increased by 25%, one could be acquired and imported/shipped to the West Coast for well under $350,000.* If your heart is set on a washer/dryer, I'm sure one could be easily installed in the saloon in lieu of the desk.* All the wood is inside the boat.* Sail rig is optional.* The PNW would be a perfect setting for the craft.



*



*

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 15th of August 2011 11:05:05 PM

Badger wrote:
Been looking there a lot, especially at this http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...nits=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=74772&url=

We did have our eyes on the Nordic tugs as well... I haven't seen an American tug in our price range yet.

I asked an open ended question as we are really open to ideas. I like the idea of a smaller 30ish foot boat, but I don't think we will be comfortable as the kids grow. We don't know anyone with a boat larger than 25 feet and that trailers.

We both took a power squadron course this summer and plan on bare chartering a few times before we decide if it is right for us.

My wife and I are more about function than form... Though a tug style is what we have both gravitated towards.

Click to expand...

Badger

On Yachtworld*and in CL ads of both*Seattle and Portland*I recommend you look closely at Tollycraft 34 and 40 foot "Tri Cabin" and/or "Sun Deck Cruiser" (model name changed and some*superstructure/interior design*changes around 1986).* Probably some Tolly*are for sale near to you, for family to board and review.* Built in Washington to the absolute highest construction standards and designed for North Pacific waters.* Both sizes have many features you seek, some you dont but will probably appreciate, and a few you may not desire.* Choosing the correct used craft is always a group of compromises backed up by security that you and yours will be happy, comfortable and most importantly always safe aboard... under all conditions.* Wife and I often utilize our 1977 34 Tolly Tri Cabin.* At times with two or three guests aboard for days cruising and/or on the hook.* Great boat, in my opinion.* Oh yes, at just below hull speed (6.7 knts) she gets 2 + nmpg using both engines.* By using just one engine at a time it goes a little slower, but gets even better nmpg.* Also, if weather suddenly looks bleak, or for any other need-be you may suddenly encounter, shell easily steady cruise at 16 + knts, 1 nmpg.* If real quick movement is required shell jump out at 21 + knts.* I never push her engines*that hard except for brief drive train tests; or twice it was needed under extreme conditions for short bursts.* Happy shopping and eventually happy boating!**

Please remember: If, upon careful review, the boat does not feel correct for you and yours then simply*move on... a craft will suddenly show up as long as you keep pressure*on your search.* You and family NEED a boat that makes you all as pleased or even more so*in future years of ownership - as it does during the first month!* For RE the magic words are Location, Location, and Location!* For marine craft it is*Selection, Selection, and Selection!* Be sure to have a good surveyor and marine mechanic closely review the boat*before you plunk down the cash $$$...$$$!*

Cheers, Art


-- Edited by Art on Monday 15th of August 2011 10:47:10 PM

*

"Trawler... fuel efficiency and it is more about the journey than getting there."

You may have bought into a myth,

If you are serious about great fuel efficiency you are ONLY looking for a full displacement hull.

Sometimes under a trawler.

Any boat with enough engine and the proper shape to go over hull speed will cost at displacement speeds.

The cost might be minor , say +15% for a faster shaped hull, and another 15-40% for operating an oversized engine .

So a 40 ft boat that could run 2 -3 Gph would only cost 3-6 gph , not that much difference and much easier to locate.




-- Edited by FF on Tuesday 16th of August 2011 03:40:12 AM

One other comment... One of my big concerns if we were to buy a dual screw motor yacht or large diesel single is the ongoing costs of engine repair/maintainence. Rebuilding to big diesels is not something that we want to do. Sure any engine can need costly repairs earlier than it should. I am hoping that they are easier to stomach on small 4cyl

Badger wrote:
One other comment... One of my big concerns if we were to buy a dual screw motor yacht or large diesel single is the ongoing costs of engine repair/maintainence. Rebuilding to big diesels is not something that we want to do. Sure any engine can need costly repairs earlier than it should. I am hoping that they are easier to stomach on small 4cyl

Click to expand...

*Maintenace costs on a low hour diesel are low, repair costs non-existent.* Most decent engines will outlast their owners, unless ignored.* A low end trawler diesel might go 5,000 hours - at 250 hours per year typical, that is 20 years.* A good diesel will last 20,000 to as much as 50,000 hours without major work.* That's a long time for most cruisers.* Others may have different opinions, but in 35 years of cruising, my repair bill on diesel engines is so low as to be equivalent to zero.

Delfin wrote:Most decent engines will outlast their owners, unless ignored.* A low end trawler diesel might go 5,000 hours - at 250 hours per year typical, that is 20 years.* A good diesel will last 20,000 to as much as 50,000 hours without major work.* That's a long time for most cruisers.

Click to expand...

*Good news.* Removal of the Coot's engine would require making a large hole in the hull or removal of the pilothouse*roof.




-- Edited by markpierce on Tuesday 16th of August 2011 07:44:52 PM

As a matter of interest what is the white perforated engine room lining material you have in that very neat engine room of Coot's?* The original perforated tiles used in Gemma's Er are falling to bits and I am trying to work out what to replace them with.

Cheers

Janis Kinne

"Gemma"

42 Tradewinds* Taiwanese Trawler

Gemma wrote:
As a matter of interest what is the white perforated engine room lining material you have in that very neat engine room of Coot's?* The original perforated tiles used in Gemma's Er are falling to bits and I am trying to work out what to replace them with.

Click to expand...

*I'm completely ignorant.* Please query Seahorse Marine and share with us.*

http://www.seahorseyachts.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=682952&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=seahorsemarine&&ywo=seahorsemarine&

Badger,
except for the pilot house (there is a lower station) the 390 or 400 Mainship might fit your bill. Two staterooms, no exterior wood, protected sidedecks for the kids, molded in steps to the flybridge rather than a ladder. The 390 was made from 97 till 2004, the 400 replaced the 390 and started in 2003 until the present. They're pretty good boats, American made and mass produced so there's economy of scale. Mainship is made by Luhrs. They also make Silverton motoryachts and Hunter sailboats so items like hatches, microwaves, refigeraters, hardware, seating, bedding, etc are all bought in bulk keeping the price down. There's plenty of them to look at on Yachtworld.

John
Dreamers Holiday
390 Mainship

FF wrote:




*

"Trawler... fuel efficiency and it is more about the journey than getting there."

You may have bought into a myth,

If you are serious about great fuel efficiency you are ONLY looking for a full displacement hull.

Sometimes under a trawler.

Any boat with enough engine and the proper shape to go over hull speed will cost at displacement speeds.

The cost might be minor , say +15% for a faster shaped hull, and another 15-40% for operating an oversized engine .

So a 40 ft boat that could run 2 -3 Gph would only cost 3-6 gph , not that much difference and much easier to locate.





-- Edited by FF on Tuesday 16th of August 2011 03:40:12 AM

Click to expand...

*True that!* We can run 6-7 knots on around 5gph and we are 43'.


-- Edited by Avista on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 08:00:48 PM

Regarding the washer/dryer...think twice. We have one (Splendied 6000) and are removing it because it takes up way too much space and frankly does not wash and dry more than a couple sets of child's clothes or one beach towel. Your much better off buying tokens or using quarters at the marina for you laundry.

We have 2yo and 10 yo boys and thought how cool it would be to do laundry and not have to bring their entire closest with us. Sounds good in theory but not in execution. Simply not worth the space in IMHO.

Our technique is huge laundry bags and a folding cart to carry them.

Many marinas do have a laundry , but seldom a good one.

The local laundromat will have Wascomats or similar large commercial washers that will eat 3 loads at a time..

Usually a bunch of dryers so the TIME spent is only one load of wash and dry time, rather than all day doing 6 loads in series.

Delfin wrote:Badger wrote:
One other comment... One of my big concerns if we were to buy a dual screw motor yacht or large diesel single is the ongoing costs of engine repair/maintainence. Rebuilding to big diesels is not something that we want to do. Sure any engine can need costly repairs earlier than it should. I am hoping that they are easier to stomach on small 4cyl

Click to expand...

*Maintenace costs on a low hour diesel are low, repair costs non-existent.* Most decent engines will outlast their owners, unless ignored.* A low end trawler diesel might go 5,000 hours - at 250 hours per year typical, that is 20 years.* A good diesel will last 20,000 to as much as 50,000 hours without major work.* That's a long time for most cruisers.* Others may have different opinions, but in 35 years of cruising, my repair bill on diesel engines is so low as to be equivalent to zero.

I agree with Delfin.* We have 7248 hours on our single FL SP135.* We have not had to do any repairs.* We are big on*routine/preventive maintenance.* The way the engine is running now, if we keep the boat that long, we should*easily get 15-20,000 hours out of her.

We have a Splendide WD2100XC.* Lena loves the washer.* We estimate it uses about 12 gallons for the cycles we use.* The dryer is 110 volt.* It's like trying to make toast running a 220 VAC toaster*on 110 volts.* It is good though to dry damp towels.* Right now we are in the rainy season and after a shower we throw the towels in the dryer*for 20 minutes and they're*dry.*