Tipping etiquette...

Just wondering. I don't want to be that guy that doesn't tip when I should be.

Docking at marina, someone comes out to help with the lines. Is be expecting a tip? How much? Pump outs? Fuel?

Thanks guys
Steve

FWIW, we use some zen to decide when to tip.... or not...

When the dockmaster comes out to help tie up, no tip. When a "lesser" member of dock staff comes to help (often young kids), we tip. Usually influenced by quality of help (did you do as we asked? or not?), whether electric and water hook-up is offered, whether marina directions or ice runs are offered, etc.

Given a particularly difficult docking situation (wind, tide, current, whatever) and multiple dock hands helping, they each might get a tip. Or if it's only one dock hand and we didn't break anything, he/she might get a larger than usual tip.

Fueling and pump-outs at the dock are similar; depends on who's there to assist.

But we always tip the pump-out boat operator, when we do it that way.

Ommmmmmmmmm......

-Chris

Usually $5 per person. Occasionally more.

Where we are about 100 miles in every direction almost all the young dockmasters rely on tips for the season. They always get something and they get more if they are very helpful. At the few more expensive stops an extra tip can often garner you a better slip and help when its time to leave.
Long Island sound NY

ranger42c said:

FWIW, we use some zen to decide when to tip.... or not...

When the dockmaster comes out to help tie up, no tip. When a "lesser" member of dock staff comes to help (often young kids), we tip. Usually influenced by quality of help (did you do as we asked? or not?), whether electric and water hook-up is offered, whether marina directions or ice runs are offered, etc.

Given a particularly difficult docking situation (wind, tide, current, whatever) and multiple dock hands helping, they each might get a tip. Or if it's only one dock hand and we didn't break anything, he/she might get a larger than usual tip.

Fueling and pump-outs at the dock are similar; depends on who's there to assist.

But we always tip the pump-out boat operator, when we do it that way.

Ommmmmmmmmm......

-Chris

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This seems to be the norm.

$5-6 for fuel dock, similar for docking help and pump out. Keep plenty of singles on you, we have a draw for tip money, nothing worse then getting a lot of help and all you have is large bills.

I follow a really simple rule of thumb for tipping. If someone's job is to assist me, or serve me, then they get tipped. Generally if you have to bring something to me, take it away, carry anything, help me, or bring me somewhere.....you get tipped.

Wait Staff
Bar Tenders
Housekeeping
Line handlers/Dock Hands
Pump Out boat
Ice [$1 per bag] If you have to fetch and carry ice for me, you get tipped
Valet (this is ridiculously rare, but it happens)
Baggage Handlers
Cab Drivers (Extra if you help with bags)
Full Service fuel (land and water)
Launch operator
Mates on commercial vessel (fishing, harbor tour, etc.)
Tour host

Note: Management does not get tipped IMHO (e.g. commercial captain, Dockmaster, etc)

I don't care if its unnecessary. I'm not loosing sleep over $5-$10. Whomever is doing this for me made my life easier when my life is already much easier than theirs to begin with.

It almost ALWAYS comes back around. Tip a bartender well, and see what happens when the bar is busy. Become a regular and continue tipping well and see what happens. I can't tell you how many times bartenders seem to 'forget' to add the last round or two to the bill. How many times a random appetizer 'shows up'. (We didn't order this......"I know", don't worry about it). The old "OOPs, I made too much frozen daiquiri, here take the rest". "Happy hour is closed, but I think i can slide one more round in".

Tip line handlers (edit: tip them well) and watch them come running down the dock when you pull in the next time. Tip the pumpout boat well and watch him wave off 3 other boats to pump you out first. I can't tell the number of times I've heard "I'm almost full and won't be back for 1-2 hours, so I wanted to make sure I got you before I left".

Best tip I ever got, working the Washington Waterfront, was from Peter Johnstone (Bob Johnstone's son of J Boat and MJM fame). Classy guy, Classy boat (MJM 50Z). I don't expect tips as we are the PR people for Washington NC and it's just part of the job....

He put the boat in "hover" mode (3 pod drives)while he got lines and fenders ready and needed little help as he joysticked it into the T dock!

Leaving the next day:

Marlinmike said:

$5-6 for fuel dock, similar for docking help and pump out. Keep plenty of singles on you, we have a draw for tip money, nothing worse then getting a lot of help and all you have is large bills.

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We start each trip with a drawer of $5 bills. If it gets low, we replenish it.

WesK said:

We start each trip with a drawer of $5 bills. If it gets low, we replenish it.

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We do the same. Start each vacation with an envelope with around $100 - $200 in 5's. When we empty our pockets at the end of the day, we put any $1's and $5's back into the envelope. Nothing worse than reaching into your pocket as your thanking someone and pulling out 2 damp, wrinkled $1's.

Shrew said:

I don't care if its unnecessary. I'm not loosing sleep over $5-$10. Whomever is doing this for me made my life easier when my life is already much easier than theirs to begin with.

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I like your attitude.

I have relatively little experience with tipping. Growing up, other than the rare meal out, my family was never in situations where were served by others. No hotels, no cabs, no fancy marinas or yacht clubs with fresh faced kids running around waiting to help.

As an adult, my experience was pretty much the same. It wasn't until I started to travel a lot for my professional organizations where I was in situations where I would tip hotel staff, cab drivers, etc... Even so, I still carry my own bags, will take a train and walk instead of taking a cab and the like. I blame my family heritage of frugal farmer and ranchers. I also am uncomfortable at being served by others. I'm much more comfortable holding a door for a doorman than having that doorman hold a door for me. In the back of my mind, I have this emotional reaction that my tipping someone else for them doing their job is somehow a bit condescending. I know this isn't true, but....

I had a dock worker once pump out my holding tank at the only marina that I know of that has that capability at each slip. They don't charge for this service. I was terribly uncomfortable. I would have been much happier if they had simply pointed me to the pump and let me do it myself. It makes no sense because if I did I would be depriving that guy of part of his job.

This is why I am impressed by Shrew's attitude. He knows that by allowing those who job it is to serve his needs he is providing employment and then can reward good service through an appropriate tip.

In an ideal world people would be paid what their services are worth and there would be no tipping.


Sadly, I don't see this happening anytime soon.

And just what is everyone's worth?

Greetings,
Mr. ps. "All animals are created equal but some are more equal than others"
George Orwell 1945.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. ps. "All animals are created equal but some are more equal than others"
George Orwell 1945.

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Cant say I remember that one but I guess I stole the concept when a girlfriend once asked me why some guys were pigs.....I responded that all guys are pigs, just some more pig-like than others.....

OK wifeyB...have at it....

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. ps. "All animals are created equal but some are more equal than others"
George Orwell 1945.

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Animal Farm. Orwell's anti-communism allegory.

psneeld said:

And just what is everyone's worth?

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A doctor is worth more than a waiter, especially if you are sick.

In a capitalist country, the market sorts itself out pretty well. If you are hiring electricians and get no qualified applicants, you are not offering enough. If every Tom, Dick and Harry shows up, you are offering more than you need to.

Once the government or unions move in and start telling employers how much they must pay people, this pretty much goes out the window (and jobs move to other countries).

I actually served on a committee studying pay rates for my employer many years ago.

Worth (skills, not worth as a human being) are relative. A doctor is worth X% more than a waiter.

Yes, but there's some risk in the idea of relative worth.

Partly situational:
When I need a doctor, he's worth more than a dock hand. But when I need a dock hand, I need dock hand skills, not doctor skills. Although maybe folks like Dave can do both

Partly cultural biases:
Garbage collectors don't get much respect. But I wouldn't want to do that job; in fact, couldn't do the same kind of heavy lifting our guys do. The risk is that folks might begin to think just because garbage collectors don't get paid as much as (______), they don't have the same intellectual value (?) as other people who earn more.

Some of the smartest guys I've met... sometimes bordering on brilliance... had little formal education... didn't make boatloads of money... didn't invent stuff, or buy and sell companies...

Back to the topic of tipping: I'm practicing trickle down. Starting with meager stockpiles of cash, but there are folks who have meager-er (?) and who work hard to help us through life.

Shrews right: tip well at the local bars/restaurants, service next time -- and subsequent times -- gets better and better. And I think our restaurant people around here get paid something like $2.30/hour, so tips are critical for some.

-Chris

WesK said:

In an ideal world people would be paid what their services are worth and there would be no tipping.

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In AUSTRALIA people are paid what their services are worth and there is no tipping

As some have posted here, opinions on TF are worthless based on that anyone with a keyboard can post and claim to be anything.

Pretty much is true in life, but those limited individuals have not caught on to their own concept.

You can go to a doctors office and see diplomas from Harvard.....are they real? Journalism has shown us that some diplomas are fake....go figure.....

Worth is relative and always will be....unless you live in a totalitarian society that has a manual, capatilism pays what the market will tolerate.

When your toilet overfliws and you cant fix it...guess what.

When the bad guys are at the front door or the border, the cop and the soldier are worth their weight in gold.

No one can possibly assign a person's worth in society unless they are king/queen and have absolute and final say.

Even suggesting so is beyond me....

I get it, dhays. Must be our agrarian backgrounds. But, yeah, I do tip. Nothing like waiting tables for a living for a while to make one an aggressive ("overgenerous", my bride says) tipper.

psneeld said:

When the bad guys are at the front door or the border, the cop and the soldier are worth their weight in gold.

No one can possibly assign a person's worth in society unless they are king/queen and have absolute and final say.

Even suggesting so is beyond me....

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No one has to assign compensation value to persons or positions, because a capitalistic economy does it for you. Cops and soldiers are tremendously valuable, but offer soldier or cop jobs at $100K salary per year and you will have more qualified candidates than you can handle. Advertise job openings for a neurosurgeon paying the same $100K and will have a tougher time filling the position. That's why the cop makes less and the surgeon makes more.

I can't repipe my own house, but I'm not paying someone $450/hr to do it when I can get many good plumbers for a fraction of that amount. When my business needs legal advice or services, I've paid that $450/hr found it to be very cost-effective. That doesn't mean the lawyer is a better person than the plumber, it just means he completed the education and experience that qualifies him to do that specific work more effectively than others.

Back to the tipping question, life would be simpler if people were paid a fair wage and tipping wasn't necessary. I would rather you tell me my hotel room costs $200 per night and let me pay it, rather than say its $160/night plus I have to give cash to every hotel worker I encounter, for a total of $195.

Tipping can show appreciation, but it also becomes a form of bribery for special treatment. Pay extra and you are treated well, pay the listed price or fee and you are treated less well because someone else tipped more.

I tip because society expects it in the country where I live. That doesn't make it logical or even correct.

Anyone who thinks tipping can be included in a fair wage doesnt get it in mt opinion.

And believe me, I have heard and understand all the arguments.

psneeld said:

Anyone who thinks tipping can be included in a fair wage doesnt get it in mt opinion.

And believe me, I have heard and understand all the arguments.

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I can appreciate that you have your opinion and respect that. I am curious, though: why can the "tipping" jobs not be paid fairly when other service positions can be? We all encounter service providers every day that aren't in "tippable" jobs yet do fabulous work. If they don't do a good job, business goes elsewhere. If their employer can't get an effective employee for a low wage, he/she must increase the pay until competent employees are attracted. Why do you feel this system doesn't also apply to jobs which are tipped in the US?

Please understand I am not trying to change your mind or argue the point. I just want to better understand your position.

sbu22 said:

I get it, dhays. Must be our agrarian backgrounds. But, yeah, I do tip. Nothing like waiting tables for a living for a while to make one an aggressive ("overgenerous", my bride says) tipper.

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I became a bigger tipper as I watched my kids work at a local golf course in the customer service area. They worked hard for tips.

I tip the housekeeping staff in hotels. However, I feel awkward just leaving money. I almost always write a personal note thanking them and fold a tip in that. At times I will also fold the bills into seasonally appropriate shapes, such as Christmas trees for example. I try to make the transaction something more than a middle-aged, middle-income white guy tossing money at some faceless minority woman.

Wifey B: We tip. When in doubt we tip. When in doubt about how much, we tip more. Those at marinas help to make our trips even more pleasurable and we're living a life they only dream of, yet they work harder than we do. I get very offended by seeing a $20 million yacht at a marina and no tipping of the dock hands. Tipping is a means of personally rewarding those providing services to you. Tipping brings me great pleasure. I appreciate those who make my life better even if in relatively small ways. We also do not care what any other person thinks about our tipping. It's our money and we can do with it as we want.

When I was young, I was on the other side and I was very appreciative, but also very dependent on tips. The generosity of others is what made it possible for me to pay rent, to buy food, to survive. Do I wish the jobs themselves paid more? Definitely. Still when you're providing a personal service it's nice to see the one you provided it to did appreciate it.

When I'm at a marina, I can't fix the disparity in pay, I can't repair the inequities of society, I can't raise minimum wage, I can't make employers treat the employees better. I can give a little money to those working hard to make my life better and I can show my appreciation through my words, my demeanor, and through actions by my tipping. I tip when I know I'll be returning and I tip the same to those I know I'll never see again. You never know just what it might mean to that person.

When I get to your country where tipping isn't customary, I'll still tip and the employee can accept it or say no. I'm not tipping because I have to. I'm tipping because I want to and I can. There's no law against giving others money to my knowledge. You don't like it, tough. I'm not trying to start a revolution or even trend, I'm just giving a small present in appreciation of service.

Tips originated as a way to reward prompt and good service. You did your task well and quickly and you were rewarded. Nowadays (at least in America) tips are expected part of the employees compensation. Wait staff expect to get 15-20% just for doing what they are hired to do, not for extra service. And if you don't tip the expected amount, you may be followed out of the restaurant by a server demanding payment of the "proper" amount. This is not what tipping is supposed to be about.

On the other hand, business owners can be happy for tipping because it shifts a lot of the employee wage responsibility off of them and on to the customer. In some establishments, the owner may even keep some or all of the tips (this is why you should pay tips in cash even if you pay the bill with a CC).

In a lot of other countries, there is either a service charge included in the bill, or the prices are set to allow the business to pay the staff a decent wage.

There are some restaurants in the US that are experimenting with a no tip model by raising the prices to cover the wages of the staff.

There are also inconsistencies in the model. For instance, at some casual restaurants I am not expected to tip the staff if they bring my food to the table (usually after ordering at a counter). However, if I go to a "sit down" restaurant, I am expected to tip. Guess who's getting minimum wage and who's making 6 figures.

West coast US you got to be careful about tipping marina help, many marinas are Port Districts and the employees are city and county government employees. Ethics law prohibit them from accepting tips. I seldom find an occasion to tip anybody where we boat anyway. They don't usually have people helping you dock at most of our marinas and our fuel dock is run by the Port District.

I travel in Europe a lot. Over the years it has gone from mostly no tipping, to some tipping there now. In Spain, where I spend most my time, the custom has been to round up your bill to the nearest Euro. Just very small amounts. Sometimes we experience more and larger tipping in tourist areas and resorts. At my favorite small bars and restaurants I usually slip the waiters a few Euros on the table. I know they don't make much. My Spanish friends give me the "Evil Eye" for doing it.

BandB said:

Wifey B: We tip. When in doubt we tip. When in doubt about how much, we tip more. Those at marinas help to make our trips even more pleasurable and we're living a life they only dream of, yet they work harder than we do. I get very offended by seeing a $20 million yacht at a marina and no tipping of the dock hands. Tipping is a means of personally rewarding those providing services to you. Tipping brings me great pleasure. I appreciate those who make my life better even if in relatively small ways. We also do not care what any other person thinks about our tipping. It's our money and we can do with it as we want.

When I was young, I was on the other side and I was very appreciative, but also very dependent on tips. The generosity of others is what made it possible for me to pay rent, to buy food, to survive. Do I wish the jobs themselves paid more? Definitely. Still when you're providing a personal service it's nice to see the one you provided it to did appreciate it.

When I'm at a marina, I can't fix the disparity in pay, I can't repair the inequities of society, I can't raise minimum wage, I can't make employers treat the employees better. I can give a little money to those working hard to make my life better and I can show my appreciation through my words, my demeanor, and through actions by my tipping. I tip when I know I'll be returning and I tip the same to those I know I'll never see again. You never know just what it might mean to that person.

When I get to your country where tipping isn't customary, I'll still tip and the employee can accept it or say no. I'm not tipping because I have to. I'm tipping because I want to and I can. There's no law against giving others money to my knowledge. You don't like it, tough. I'm not trying to start a revolution or even trend, I'm just giving a small present in appreciation of service.

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Don't come here and start a revolution were doing ok without you

dhays said:

I became a bigger tipper as I watched my kids work at a local golf course in the customer service area. They worked hard for tips.

I tip the housekeeping staff in hotels. However, I feel awkward just leaving money. I almost always write a personal note thanking them and fold a tip in that. At times I will also fold the bills into seasonally appropriate shapes, such as Christmas trees for example. I try to make the transaction something more than a middle-aged, middle-income white guy tossing money at some faceless minority woman.

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Wifey B: We had an A/C go out not long ago at home. That only happens at night and on weekends. Well, the owner of the HVAC company came and repaired it, replaced a compressor which he had to run and pick up somewhere. I tipped him. He tried to say no. I said, "It's not for you, it's for your wife and kids who wish you were home with them. Take them out to dinner."

I prefer in person too if possible. I'm sure your Christmas trees are treasured and they show it's more than just money, it's your appreciation. It's got to be tough sometimes to work cleaning rooms, often dealing with filth left behind by wealthy travelers or business persons, for minimum wage, knowing they paid more for the suite than you make in a month. I know when they get a kind word or note and a token of appreciation it makes the job a little more palatable.

I'm sure when your kids worked at the golf course they also dealt with a good many jerks, who perhaps tipped or perhaps not, but treated them and everyone else rudely and disrespectfully. That kind of behavior impacts young people. Thank goodness they were also exposed to those who were polite and decent and showed their appreciation through tips. In those situations we don't realize sometimes that we're shaping the mindsets of others, their perception of the world.

I'm sure your acts of kindness with your notes or origami from bills helps to make the days of some just a little better. What better can we do in life than that? No, money isn't the only way to do that, but sometimes it's the way that shows our sincerity. I remember my first job ever in a small cafe. One regular customer would tip just a few cents. He was so sweet. He had no money, just a little bit from social security. Sometimes other customers would buy him breakfast but he still tipped. He used a walker and it took him five minutes to get from the door to the table. His wife had died not long before I first met him. He was the kindest, sweetest man and he made even the worst morning better. He might sit two hours eating and sipping coffee. I so loved that old man. The last time I saw him was a visit to his hospital room where I took a joke book and read him jokes (including a couple of dirty ones) and laughed with a dying man between his doses of morphine. He died a few hours later. The cafe felt so empty without him each morning. I would have starved on his tips but he fed my soul and heart.

I get your line about "middle-aged, middle-income white guy tossing money at some faceless minority woman." The key word is "respect" and you show it in your appreciation. You show it's worth a couple of minutes of your time. I'm sure they talk to their co-workers about it too and share the notes and art work. They get disrespected plenty and it's nice for them to know that's not how one person feels toward them.