Question about LOA, slip-size and dinghy's.

Hey Everyone,

I am currently on a wait list for a 46' slip at Shilshole Marina in Seattle. As my wife and I are going through the process of finding our "perfect boat", one thing that keeps bothering me is making sure that the boat we choose will fit in the slip we get.

My question is really mostly about boats with cockpit davits and dinghy's that hang over the stern. For example, I'm seeing some boats listed as 44' LOA with a dinghy out back. I'm guessing that would likely push it up into the 46' - 48' range depending on if the dinghy is horizontal or vertical? Not quite sure how much length they typically add to the LOA.

From what I understand, this particular marina (Shilshole) comes out and measures the entire length of the boat to make sure it is in compliance.

Does anyone have experience, suggestions or best practices when it comes to this?

Thanks in advance!!

PNW Jeff said:

Hey Everyone,

I am currently on a wait list for a 46' slip at Shilshole Marina in Seattle. As my wife and I are going through the process of finding our "perfect boat", one thing that keeps bothering me is making sure that the boat we choose will fit in the slip we get.

My question is really mostly about boats with cockpit davits and dinghy's that hang over the stern. For example, I'm seeing some boats listed as 44' LOA with a dinghy out back. I'm guessing that would likely push it up into the 46' - 48' range depending on if the dinghy is horizontal or vertical? Not quite sure how much length they typically add to the LOA.

From what I understand, this particular marina (Shilshole) comes out and measures the entire length of the boat to make sure it is in compliance.

Does anyone have experience, suggestions or best practices when it comes to this?

Thanks in advance!!

Click to expand...

The majority of marinas measure the entire length of a boat including bow pulpit, swim platform, dinghy hanging over, anything else. Then they bill by the greater of boat length or slip length. Now, some have allowances for boats to extend beyond the length of the slip and others do not.

I'm sure there are other size slips available in Seattle. Just seems a bit backward to tie one's hands to a slip size, unless there's no other choice.

BandB said:

The majority of marinas measure the entire length of a boat including bow pulpit, swim platform, dinghy hanging over, anything else. Then they bill by the greater of boat length or slip length. Now, some have allowances for boats to extend beyond the length of the slip and others do not.

I'm sure there are other size slips available in Seattle. Just seems a bit backward to tie one's hands to a slip size, unless there's no other choice.

Click to expand...

That's kind of what I was thinking. The reason for the slip size is that it's a 2 year wait for a 46' slip. However, they say I can go up to a 50' slip, which is only a 1 year wait and keep my place in line.

It's starting to look more and more like I'll have to suck it up and go with a 50' slip. I was just hoping to save the $100 / month extra it'll cost to go up in size.

Jeff, here's a thought--put your name on the 50' slip wait list. Then, if you find your perfect boat will fit into a smaller slip, get the boat. It's usually easier to find someone who is willing to swap with you if you have a bigger slip. More guys get two-footitis than ever go down in size.


Just curious--is this your first boat? A boat the size range you're looking at is a pretty big step for a first boat. I'm not saying it can't be managed but the learning curve for a boat that size is steeper than one that's in the 35'-40' size range.


But then, I'm the one who always says "Buy your second boat first". By that I mean, don't start out with a 'learner' boat then upsize in a year or two because that gets expensive.

PNW Jeff said:

That's kind of what I was thinking. The reason for the slip size is that it's a 2 year wait for a 46' slip. However, they say I can go up to a 50' slip, which is only a 1 year wait and keep my place in line.

It's starting to look more and more like I'll have to suck it up and go with a 50' slip. I was just hoping to save the $100 / month extra it'll cost to go up in size.

Click to expand...

Just don't let the tail wag the dog.

When I bought my boat it was at Edmonds Marina, not that far north of Seattle. The slip was grandfathered to the boat for me, but there were not many of those situations still left. I could keep the slip for as long as I wanted but could not pass it on if I sold the boat. You might get lucky and find a similar situation. At the time the wait list for slips of that length was 10 years. The longer the slip, the fewer there are in the PNW and the longer you will need to wait.

I was on the waiting list at Shilshole and they were very flexible with allowing me to move slip lengths if I needed and keep my place in line.

I ended up keeping my boat at Elliott Bay Marina for now but am still on the list in case I want to move it next summer.

My Nordic Tug 32 measures out at 38' 4" from anchor to dingy. Shilshole is very strict with length so I would require a 40' there. EBM is less picky. They give you 1' of wiggle room. So I'm currently paying for a 38' there.

I guess what I learned is the only way to know how long a boat truly is is to measure it.

PNW Jeff said:

My question is really mostly about boats with cockpit davits and dinghy's that hang over the stern. For example, I'm seeing some boats listed as 44' LOA with a dinghy out back. I'm guessing that would likely push it up into the 46' - 48' range depending on if the dinghy is horizontal or vertical? Not quite sure how much length they typically add to the LOA.

From what I understand, this particular marina (Shilshole) comes out and measures the entire length of the boat to make sure it is in compliance.

Does anyone have experience, suggestions or best practices when it comes to this?

Click to expand...

BandB said:

The majority of marinas measure the entire length of a boat including bow pulpit, swim platform, dinghy hanging over, anything else. Then they bill by the greater of boat length or slip length. Now, some have allowances for boats to extend beyond the length of the slip and others do not.

Click to expand...

PNW Jeff said:

That's kind of what I was thinking. The reason for the slip size is that it's a 2 year wait for a 46' slip. However, they say I can go up to a 50' slip, which is only a 1 year wait and keep my place in line.

It's starting to look more and more like I'll have to suck it up and go with a 50' slip. I was just hoping to save the $100 / month extra it'll cost to go up in size.

Click to expand...

What B said.

And yes, it depends on the place. We are nominally 42, actually 44 counting the pulpit, even more actually 46+ counting the swim platform we added... and really, no kidding closer to 48+ with the dinghy cantilever-mounted
off the aft end.

Without regard to nominal lengths, it becomes important sometimes to give real LOA especially when arranging transient slips -- so the dockmaster assigns a slip that will really work. We were assigned a 50' space on the museum face dock once, and I really did end up with only about 1' to spare at each end, after we shoehorned ourselves into the slot (lots of spring line work). Inches mattered during that maneuver, and our pulpit was often hanging over the cockpit of the boat just ahead of us. Sometimes "tight" is all the dockmaster has to offer....

Get in line for the 50' slip. You can probably more easily trade downward should that become necessary.

But if you get a smaller boat, you'll also likely get two-foot-itis soon enough, and then you'll have to work a bit to get a 50' slip if that happens.

-Chris

LouisG said:

............ the only way to know how long a boat truly is is to measure it.

Click to expand...

This is correct. And the fact that a boat has "32" or "39" in its model number has little to do with the actual length of the boat. My boat was a "28" when it was built and that's what is listed on the documentation. Later, they changed the model to "31" but it was the same boat.

Each marina will have its own policies on boat length, slip length, etc. And in some cases, negotiation is possible.

WesK said:

This is correct. And the fact that a boat has "32" or "39" in its model number has little to do with the actual length of the boat. My boat was a "28" when it was built and that's what is listed on the documentation. Later, they changed the model to "31" but it was the same boat.

Each marina will have its own policies on boat length, slip length, etc. And in some cases, negotiation is possible.

Click to expand...

Most new boats do publish an LOA including pulpit and platform. They may also publish a deck length. The published LOA has always been accurate in our cases except a RIB that is slightly wider than the swim platform so we add that distance of 4".

Yep, seems every marina has its own policy or habits. Ours allows your boat to extend 10% beyond the slip length, total. Our slip is 42. Nominal boat length 37, with swim step and bow pulpit we're right at 41, so we can stick out about 4 more feet - just enough to moor the dingy to the swim step.

Funny story, years ago I was tied up at the Bimini Big Game club. I registered as a 34 which was listed on my legal paperwork. Walking fiend the dock the dock master called me over and asked me took at the Bertram ties next to me as asked me which war larger. Certainly my boat was slightly longer perhaps by a foot or so. Dock master informed me the Bertram registered as a 38 foot boat. I told him that owner got screwed by the manufacturer. End of story.

Yup. I own a North Pacific 43. The LOA is 44'6".
Most of the time I just call it a 43' boat. However, when inquiring about transient moorage, I tell them my LOA is 45' total.

Mine is 31' long when I'm bragging, 28' long when I'm paying for dockage.


I pay for 30' at my home marina. Regardless of the boat's length, all the slips are the same length. One guy may be paying for a 35' boat, the guy in the next slip may be paying for a 25' boat.

More great feedback here, thanks everyone!

It's a bit frustrating, because I'm coming to learn that there is really no way to tell what the actual LOA of a boat is going to be without physically measuring it. The marina we are planning on calling 'home' has a reputation for being sticklers for going with the full LOA including anchor, swim platform and dinghy.

The boats we are looking at mostly seem to be in the 44-46' range, so although I put my name on a list for a 46' slip, I don't see any way that a boat that is listed with an LOA of even 44' will fit in a slip of that size once you figure in a dinghy on the back.

PNW Jeff said:

More great feedback here, thanks everyone!

It's a bit frustrating, because I'm coming to learn that there is really no way to tell what the actual LOA of a boat is going to be without physically measuring it. The marina we are planning on calling 'home' has a reputation for being sticklers for going with the full LOA including anchor, swim platform and dinghy.

The boats we are looking at mostly seem to be in the 44-46' range, so although I put my name on a list for a 46' slip, I don't see any way that a boat that is listed with an LOA of even 44' will fit in a slip of that size once you figure in a dinghy on the back.

Click to expand...

The LOA should be information that is pretty easy to find in a boat listing or other reference.

PNW Jeff said:

More great feedback here, thanks everyone!

It's a bit frustrating, because I'm coming to learn that there is really no way to tell what the actual LOA of a boat is going to be without physically measuring it. The marina we are planning on calling 'home' has a reputation for being sticklers for going with the full LOA including anchor, swim platform and dinghy.

The boats we are looking at mostly seem to be in the 44-46' range, so although I put my name on a list for a 46' slip, I don't see any way that a boat that is listed with an LOA of even 44' will fit in a slip of that size once you figure in a dinghy on the back.

Click to expand...

It all depends on the boat and if it's a boat built by a builder still in business it's fairly simple to get measurements. They can at minimum give you the deck length and you just add the pulpit and platform if they weren't factory installed. The main thing in buying is to ignore nomenclatures and look at true LOA's and deck lengths.

dhays said:

The LOA should be information that is pretty easy to find in a boat listing or other reference.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm over-complicating this? I see LOA listed on almost every listing, however I've been questioning whether it would take into account swim platform, dinghy davits + dinghy (assuming the dinghy is located on davits off the stern).

If most of these listed LOA lengths actually INCLUDE everything that particular boat has on it, things would be a lot simpler. Would you expect that to be the case?

PNW Jeff said:

Maybe I'm over-complicating this? I see LOA listed on almost every listing, however I've been questioning whether it would take into account swim platform, dinghy davits + dinghy (assuming the dinghy is located on davits off the stern).

If most of these listed LOA lengths actually INCLUDE everything that particular boat has on it, things would be a lot simpler. Would you expect that to be the case?

Click to expand...

The LOA in general will include the hull, swim platform, and bow pulpit. I wouldn't expect it to include a dinghy on davits. Easy to just add an arbitrary 2-3' to account for that depending on the type of davit arrangement.

dhays said:

The LOA in general will include the hull, swim platform, and bow pulpit. I wouldn't expect it to include a dinghy on davits. Easy to just add an arbitrary 2-3' to account for that depending on the type of davit arrangement.

Click to expand...

Now, LOA on listings can be wrong. Be suspicious when it's a rounded number. However, the builder has accurate numbers available and most of the LOA's shown in listings are correct. To those facing size restrictions or wanting to be sure, then you'll have to confirm and verify.

"LOA" is "length overall". That's from the very front to the very back. It includes the anchor pulpit and it includes the swim platform.


If you have a dinghy that sticks out behind the boat, that's not part of the LOA because it's not part of the boat and won't always be there but most marinas would like to charge you for the extra length anyway.

There is such a wealth of knowledge on this forum....that if you're looking at a particular boat....there is probably someone here who owns one and can tell you what you need to know.

Does the marina have a dinghy dock ? Perhaps you could leave your dink there and not have to hang it off your stern while you are in the marina. Then just mount it up when you're going cruising.....or get a crane and store it on the foredeck....but the larger slip is probably cheaper than a crane installation.

Jeff:

I have a 44. I have measured and that is an accurate length overall, without the sprit or swimgrid.
My slip is a couple of feet over my total length, including a Caribe 12' RIB on davits at the stern and a bowsprit and anchor, with a pulpit over, at the bow. My slip is 55'.

When I got my slip after waiting about 5 yrs, I was asked to try it out first, as there are issues with length, width, height and depth in our marina.

PNW Jeff said:

It's a bit frustrating, because I'm coming to learn that there is really no way to tell what the actual LOA of a boat is going to be without physically measuring it.

Click to expand...

dhays said:

The LOA should be information that is pretty easy to find in a boat listing or other reference.

Click to expand...

BandB said:

It all depends on the boat and if it's a boat built by a builder still in business it's fairly simple to get measurements. They can at minimum give you the deck length and you just add the pulpit and platform if they weren't factory installed. The main thing in buying is to ignore nomenclatures and look at true LOA's and deck lengths.

Click to expand...

PNW Jeff said:

Maybe I'm over-complicating this? I see LOA listed on almost every listing, however I've been questioning whether it would take into account swim platform, dinghy davits + dinghy (assuming the dinghy is located on davits off the stern).

If most of these listed LOA lengths actually INCLUDE everything that particular boat has on it, things would be a lot simpler. Would you expect that to be the case?

Click to expand...

Shouldn't be all that difficult to find the builder's LOA spec. Just ignore the model name (28, 31, 42, whatever) and look for LOA in listings (compare to model name to confirm that LOA is -- usually -- larger).

You can also look at USCG documentation (for sister-ships documented here in the US) for specs. That should get you numbers for everything the boat builder could control.

(Happens our document shows builder's reported length including pulpit and swim platform... even though our boat was originally delivered without swim platform.)

But transom-mounted dinghies are usually an aftermarket bolt-on system, and you might have to do some additional work to figure that out. Some dinghies/mounts may add nothing to LOA, Some may add only a foot or so (Weaver?, SeaWise?), but some may add most of the beam of the dinghy, depending.

And/or the boat may have been fitted with an aftermarket swim platform (TnT, for example) that extends the actual length beyond original builder's LOA.

I would not expect LOA in broker listings to include that info, but brokers and sellers ought to be able to answer questions about "how much did that add..?" if necessary.

PNW Jeff said:

The boats we are looking at mostly seem to be in the 44-46' range, so although I put my name on a list for a 46' slip, I don't see any way that a boat that is listed with an LOA of even 44' will fit in a slip of that size once you figure in a dinghy on the back.

Click to expand...

Probably, but also depends on if you're looking at boats with a model name like 44 or 46... or whether you mean boats with reported LOAs of 44 or 46. A boat with model name 44 or 46 will almost certainly not fit in a 46' slip (without overhang) even without a dinghy mounted aft; let's say 98% probability (a number I just made up). A boat with reported LOA of 44, with a dinghy mounted upright on a Weaver or SeaWise system -- or even some other nifty mounting system that adds little overhang -- might (MIGHT) barely fit into a 46' slip, but I doubt it. A boat with reported LOA of 46 and a dinghy mounted aft will almost certainly need a 50' slip in the area you've mentioned.

-Chris

koliver said:

I have a 44. I have measured and that is an accurate length overall, without the sprit or swimgrid.

Click to expand...

I've seen that measurement called length on deck (LOD).

-Chris

ranger42c said:

I've seen that measurement called length on deck (LOD).

-Chris

Click to expand...

If you measure "on deck" you don't get the flare of the bulwarks or the width of the cap rail, so add at least a foot for total "boat only" length.

koliver said:

If you measure "on deck" you don't get the flare of the bulwarks or the width of the cap rail, so add at least a foot for total "boat only" length.

Click to expand...

Yep, good point.

Although in this context, I think "on deck" was meant to to signify the length of the upper half of the boat that's attached the hull. In our case, that'd include transom coamings, etc...

But not the pulpit and not the swim platform...

Although the pulpit part is a bit squirrelly since ours is an integral part of the deck mold.

But then that also maybe speaks to why our builder specified an "official" (?) length overall (LOA) that includes both pulpit and swim platform...

-Chris

This is all really helpful!

So, from what I'm gathering is that the LOA measurement should typically include the swim platform? I ask because when we were at Trawlerfest in Bremerton a few months ago, one gentlemen we spoke with (who seemed really knowledgeable), mentioned that we should be aware that swim platforms, unless they are a part of the hull, would likely not be calculated into the mfr's LOA.

I don't know if I'm relaying "part of the hull" accurately, but I know that on some boats the swim platform seems to be molded in. In that case, it would surely be calculated into the LOA. However, on the majority of boats that we've seen, the swim platform appears to be something that is "bolted on" to the boat and thus is not part of the hull.

Would you expect the second type to still be calculated into LOA?

Ultimately, when it comes time to get out, look at boats, perhaps the best thing to do is just bring a long tape measure and take a measurement from the dock (though it wouldn't be entirely accurate)

Yep, all depends on the boat and the marina and the purpose of the measurement. I don't think you really can identify any standard or usual practices. (Our swim step and bow pulpit is part of the hull mold too, but then the bow pulpit rail tilts forward...)