New toilet

I have a 1979 30' Californian with the hand pump toilet. Is it difficult to switch to an automatic flushing toilet?

The plumbing shouldn't need much change. You'll have to run wires and install switches.

You don't say which toilet you currently have but you can probably reuse your existing bowl and save a few bucks if you buy a Raritan Sea Era conversion kit.

The Sea Era is an excellent toilet. Raritan Sea Era Conversion Kit - 16LI012

Do you have Peggie Hall's book? Now is the time to read it.
https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Boat-Odors/dp/1892399784

Thank you, I inhereted the boat so I am trying to figure it out. I am ordering the book as a good start. I am assuming that the water supply that is in place now would be sufficient and that the holding tanks just need to be pumped out periodically? The wifey said the existing setup definently needs upgraded as well as other items. (Sink, counters, upholstery, curtains, carpet, stove) good lord, what have I got myself into? Lol

My advice to you is, with a "new to you" boat and especially if you are an inexperienced boater, you should not make any significant changes until you've had and used the boat for a while.


Personally, my wife and I aren't too proud to pump a toilet to empty it and just converting it to electric doesn't make it any better, it just adds possible complications.


That said, if you have the room and $900 lying around unused, a Raritan Elegance head would be a nice and practical upgrade.


Some toilets use sea water to flush and some use potable (fresh) water to flush. They are not interchangeable.


My point is, you have a lot to learn about boating and your boat so don't do anything until you understand what you are doing and why.

After a few years of boat system maintenance and repair, including the toilets, I agree with the other posts - simpler the better. Now I have to go down to the boat and install a new shower sump box screen to protect the electric pump from shower "material" and clean out the goo.

Thanks, I fully agree. I think i have done more reading in the last few months than I had in the last 10 years! I fully understand that with this larger boat come many more skill levels than what I am used to with my 21' ski boat and that I have much to learn!, from restoring the teak rails and trim, to the upgrades I mentioned earlier. I am definently looking forward to this journey!

WesK mentioned the Raritan Elegance toilet. They do cost more but they have a reputation for reliability and they can be had for a lot less than the $900 Wes mentioned. (Yes you can spend $900 on one depending on options) There are a lot of options with the Elegance and the installation will be more complicated but the looks and ease of using it will make your wife a lot happier.

I agree that simpler is almost always better.

Our current boat has a Jabsco electric head. It is noisy, wakes me up at night when my wife flushes it and the motor failed recently which cost almost as much as a new manual flush toilet to replace.

And when the electric head fails it fails. Manual flush toilets rarely fail to the point where they can't be used for a few days until you can fix them.

If you do install an electric toilet, you will need at least a 20A circuit with at least 12 gauge wire, maybe 10 ga if it is a long run from the breaker. My toilet motor pulls 10A and the wiring run is about 10' each way so I need 12 ga to limit voltage drop. But follow the manufacturer's instructions in any case.

David

I have both a manual pump toilet, (just replaced) and an electric. Can't say I like one better than the other. No matter which is used, they both get the job done. If it is clean and in working order move on to more pressing projects like engine maintenance. Everything in due time. It's a boat, you're never done! LOL!

My boat came to me with one manual head, one electric head. Due to the noise and high failure rate of the electric head, we now enjoy two manual heads.
I expect the electric head technology has advanced somewhat since 1994, but as with most systems, if it isn't broken, no fix is required, so we are staying with the manual heads for a while longer.

WesK said:

My advice to you is, with a "new to you" boat and especially if you are an inexperienced boater, you should not make any significant changes until you've had and used the boat for a while.


Personally, my wife and I aren't too proud to pump a toilet to empty it and just converting it to electric doesn't make it any better, it just adds possible complications.

Click to expand...

Great advice!

One other point... before you drop a lot of time and money into the boat to bring it up to your wive's standards, you may want to use the boat to see if boating is even something that you WANT to do. Just because you inherited a boat, doesn't mean you have to be a a boater. Even if you want to be a boater, that boat may not be the type you want to use. You could make all those upgrades and still find that you or your wife don't enjoy using it.

kthoennes said:

After a few years of boat system maintenance and repair, including the toilets, I agree with the other posts - simpler the better. Now I have to go down to the boat and install a new shower sump box screen to protect the electric pump from shower "material" and clean out the goo.

Click to expand...

You wouldn't need the screen if you kept the sump clean, which may be the only maintenance job on a boat that doesn't require any manual labor.

Raritan only markets their "C.P. Cleans Potties" as a toilet bowl cleaner, but it also happens to be the best sump and drain cleaner on the planet. C.P is a bio-enzymatic cleaner that not only destroys odor on contact, but the enzymes in it "eat" hair, soap scum galley grease and all that goes into the sumps and drains. A couple of ounces down the shower drain once a week when it can stand at least overnight, or last thing before leaving the boat 'cuz the enzymes need time to "eat" the stuff. It won't harm anything, so it can remain in sumps or drains indefinitely, it just stops working after 24 hours.

Beers30 said:

I inhereted the boat so I am trying to figure it out. I am ordering the book as a good start. I am assuming that the water supply that is in place now would be sufficient and that the holding tanks just need to be pumped out periodically? The wifey said the existing setup definently needs upgraded as well as other items. (Sink, counters, upholstery, curtains, carpet, stove) good lord, what have I got myself into? Lol

Click to expand...

In every system on a boat it's not the type of equipment that matters most, it's its age and condition...and everything has a working lifespan. New versions replace older versions and most mfrs discontinue parts support for obsolete equipment after 10 years. Did the boat sit unused for several years? Sitting unused results in deterioration that can be more destructive to everything on a boat than hard continuous use if the boat's been well maintained too.

Your wife's priorities are cosmetic issues...those can wait. First you need to be concerned with making sure the engine(s) and the sanitation, electrical and fresh water and all the other systems work--'cuz it doesn't matter how pretty the boat is, she won't be happy if any of 'em don't.

You're about to find out why a boat is known as a hole in the water surrounded by fiberglass into which one pours money. Depending on how much this one needs, you may decide to convert your inheritance to cash and continue enjoying your ski boat...'cuz you own it, but any boat too big to live on trailer owns you. That's fine for some of us, but not for everyone.

HeadMistress said:

You're about to find out why a boat is known as a hole in the water surrounded by fiberglass into which one pours money. Depending on how much this one needs, you may decide to convert your inheritance to cash and continue enjoying your ski boat...'cuz you own it, but any boat too big to live on trailer owns you. That's fine for some of us, but not for everyone.

Click to expand...

What Peggy says is true in my experience with a few boats....BUT.....you can stare at and admire the money in your account on Fidelity.com or you can do like we did and take some out and buy a boat. So far, despite HoldingTankapalooza (long story) our vote is that the boat option is much better. Our boat was in really nice shape but despite that I calculated 10% of the purchase price to handle unforeseen things and get it up and running in as close to perfect shape as a 30 years old boat can get. I will probably be spot on after I finish doing these things.

WesK said:

My advice to you is, with a "new to you" boat and especially if you are an inexperienced boater, you should not make any significant changes until you've had and used the boat for a while.

Personally, my wife and I aren't too proud to pump a toilet to empty it and just converting it to electric doesn't make it any better, it just adds possible complications.

That said, if you have the room and $900 lying around unused, a Raritan Elegance head would be a nice and practical upgrade.

Some toilets use sea water to flush and some use potable (fresh) water to flush. They are not interchangeable.

My point is, you have a lot to learn about boating and your boat so don't do anything until you understand what you are doing and why.

Click to expand...

Recently purchased two Raritan Elegance electric toilets for $557 each.

My last boat (1989 Sabre) had the original manual toilets in it. My wife wasn't happy with the manual toilet, so I installed an electric toilet in the master and left the manual toilet in the forward head, I just rebuilt it.
By doing it this way, my wife was happy with the electric toilet, but if a problem arose, we had the simpler manual toilet as a backup. Everyone is happy��

We have an electric, fresh water head on our current boat. Prior to this, we have had nothing but manual, raw water heads. My current electric head has not been a problem for us and works really well. My wife loves it.

I am still a fan of manual pump toilets. I think that some don't like manual toilets because it makes them have to think about the whole process of flushing, storing, and emptying their poop. Easier to just push a button and pretend everything magically disappears.

We pulled out both electric toilets and replaced with new, manual units.

The main reason was there was no "dry bowl" setting. You pushed the button and raw water came in as the waste was pumped out. These toilets never quite got all of it out; they just diluted it. To put it as delicately as I can, if any of that waste was of the floating variety, it would take a long time to get it down the drain. All the while filling up the holding tanks.

Secondary to that was the noise and extra complexity.

Finally, there is some value in forcing guests to confront the results of their activities in the head. Thinking they can close the lid and push a button to make everything disappear is not an attitude we want to encourage. Most people are good at asking for specific instructions if they're not clear on the concept of wet and dry pump settings.

PS: Dave posted while I was reading this thread and composing my post. And of course, said it more concisely than I did!

CaptTom said:

We pulled out both electric toilets and replaced with new, manual units.

The main reason was there was no "dry bowl" setting. You pushed the button and raw water came in as the waste was pumped out. These toilets never quite got all of it out; they just diluted it. To put it as delicately as I can, if any of that waste was of the floating variety, it would take a long time to get it down the drain. All the while filling up the holding tanks.

Click to expand...

You and I are on the same page as far as manual toilets being a reminder that folks are on a boat, not a house sitting above a sewage system.

For your other issue, it may have simply been your electric head. Our Techma Silence does a great job. I am not familiar other electric heads but this has two buttons. The first button puts water in the bowl. The second button add water, flushes, and empties the bowl. The instructions to guests are that if they need to poop, push the first button first, then the second button after they are done. After the flush cycle is complete, the bowl is empty and generally clean. If no poop is involved, they just push the second button after they are finished.

This system reduces the amount of water used when only urine is being flushed (unfortunately, that is a concern with a fresh water head and no watermaker). I assume that the Raritan Elegance (Don't you love that name? What woman doesn't want to feel "elegant" while sitting on the toilet?) does much the same.

Thanks for the input. I had the boat serviced and mechanically it is in great shape. Everything works good so far. My dad kept real good care of the boat so it is mostly cosmetics and upgrades that need done. Not sure when he had the bottom repainted but that is next on the list! Looking forward to many more years of boating!

After reading this thread, I'm curious....

Has anyone here used, or considered, a composting toilet? I've been doing some reading lately and came across composting toilets as having a number of potential advantages over an electric or pump toilet, such as:

* Much less smell
* No real chance of failure
* No hoses or external holding tank required
* Can go longer without requiring a pump out (ok, not really a pump out but you get the point)
* Environmentally friendly

PNW Jeff said:

After reading this thread, I'm curious....

Has anyone here used, or considered, a composting toilet? I've been doing some reading lately and came across composting toilets as having a number of potential advantages over an electric or pump toilet, such as:

* Much less smell
* No real chance of failure
* No hoses or external holding tank required
* Can go longer without requiring a pump out (ok, not really a pump out but you get the point)
* Environmentally friendly

Click to expand...

Jeff, you will get lots of rather vigorous opinions. Many will heap huge amounts of scorn on your for even considering such a thing. Others will tell you how wonderful they are.

I think they can be a really good option if you understand it. I have never had one and wouldn't consider it on my current boat, but maybe in a different boat...

As I understand it, they do require a vent hose connection. That means that all the smell is being vented outside the boat (much like our traditional marine heads with holding tanks).

dhays said:

Jeff, you will get lots of rather vigorous opinions. Many will heap huge amounts of scorn on your for even considering such a thing. Others will tell you how wonderful they are.

I think they can be a really good option if you understand it. I have never had one and wouldn't consider it on my current boat, but maybe in a different boat...

As I understand it, they do require a vent hose connection. That means that all the smell is being vented outside the boat (much like our traditional marine heads with holding tanks).

Click to expand...

I believe you are right about the vent hose. Although, I think the whole lack of smell thing is just that has to do with the composting process and the fact that liquids and solids are held separately. This is just from what I've hard though, no first hand experience.

I LIKE the idea of not having to worry about smelly black tanks, clogged hoses and breakdowns...not quite so sure about having to manually empty out the "holding" containers.

Don't know if a composting toilet is right for you but check out C-Head . It is a dessicating toilet. Reasonably priced.

PNW Jeff said:

Has anyone here used, or considered, a composting toilet? I've been doing some reading lately.......

Click to expand...

Here you go. Check out this thread. Doing so may help Peggy's blood pressure by preventing her from re-posting her thoughts on the subject...

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s31/marine-composting-toilet-11448.html

I have a composting toilet in my workshop, but I would not want one in a boat. The toilet is big, about twice the size of a domestic toilet, but the main problem is that it uses a lot of electricity. There is a small fan that runs 24/7 (to force odours out a 3" vent), and an electric heater that maintains warm temperatures in the composting compartment. It is also much more difficult to clean than a domestic toilet. Then there is the price. Mine cost 3X the cost of a good marine toilet. The only plus is that it doesn't require a holding tank.

My cats don't mind using their composting toilet. I don't enjoy cleaning it.

firstbase said:

Here you go. Check out this thread. Doing so may help Peggy's blood pressure by preventing her from re-posting her thoughts on the subject...
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s31/marine-composting-toilet-11448.html

Click to expand...

<LOL>!! Thank you!

What a lot--most, actually--of people don't realize is that none of these systems are true composters...the AirHead and Nature's Head are desiccators...iow, they only dry out solid matter using heat, a fan, peat moss or other drying material and a bacterial accelerator. The C-Head has neither a fan nor a heater, making it little more than a cat litter box. At least it can be rotated though.

The people own these systems love to report that they only have to empty the dried out poop every 2-3 weeks vs. pumping out every few days...but turning fecal matter or any organic matter into compost takes months. Not only does peat moss or other dry material have to be added regularly, but the material has to be "fluffed" regularly (that's done in a true composter by rotating the drum that holds the material every day or two) to aerate it...otherwise it compacts and rots. Fortunately the dessicators fill up too quickly for that to occur.

I agree that marine toilets and holding tanks can be a PITA...but 99% of problems are preventable. Properly installed and maintained--which is actually very easy--they can be entirely odor free and trouble free. And my book explains in detail how to do both!

I want my wife to be happy. Electric toilet, no problem. All new hoses to the holding tank were part of the install. I was concerned the holding tank would fill more quickly. I think it does but not to the point where I worry about it.

If you decide to upgrade, pump out your holding tank 7 or 8 times , filling it with fresh water after each pump out. Made the job tolerable. I keep a Raritan rebuild kit on board.