When to Retire

In my 38 years of flying I've never lost an engine. I've had a few precautionary shut downs though. I hope I make it another 2 without incident. Smoke in the cockpit scares me the most.

FlyWright wrote:
"Why not pull the plug at the earliest opportunity if the numbers all work out? Life's too short." I don't need to be rich to be happy...just enough to pay the bills and enjoy boating in retirement.

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* * * ** Although that's not exactly the scenario I went through, it's very close.

****** My partners & I had a very successful manufacturing company, with 8 different divisions throughout the country and Puerto Rico. We had a Citation 5 to play with,* had damn good managers and the money was rolling in. One day, my wife died of cancer.* I could not believe it! I had always thought I would go first and had worked hard to make sure she & the kids would have no financial worries. The kids were grown up, through college & out of the nest. Although I was 51, with a lot of working years left, I decided that there were plenty of other things in life I wanted to do before kicking the bucket. Boating was very high on the list. I approached my two partners, negotiated a buyout and here I am with not one regret. Now.... I know that for most, income is the big concern. It's not the only concern, however. Health may be the biggest of all!

I have learned to "smell the roses", (something you can't possibly know until you retire.)

My health is better, (no stress) and I don't regret one second of retiring at 51.

You will not believe how busy you will be after retiring! You'll wonder how you completed all those essential, day to day obligations while still working.

Go with your heart....you'll love it!* (After confirming the numbers, of course!) :nod:

Never flew an airplain. sheesh. Lost the motor on my boat last weekend that was bad enough.

How do you handle that kind of pressure/stress.

Hat's off to you big guy.

I'd retire.

SD

*

"How do you handle that kind of pressure/stress."

Training and preparation. To me, an emergency is NOT an emotional event. It's a factual event. It's a situation to be dealt with using accepted procedures (checklists, manuals, memory items), systems knowledge and airmanship. We're trained for this every six months in the simulator or airplane, so it's not something we haven't seen before.

Now, for me, the question of the day is what the heck happened to the engine and how do we prevent it from recurring.

I lost the port engine in my boat a couple weeks ago as I was pulling into the slip. The idle was a bit low and it just puttered out. It was easier to finish the docking single engine that to restart since I was already halfway in the slip. If there's a perfect place to lose an engine on a twin boat, that was probably close to being the perfect place. (Another 20 feet with the lines tied to the cleats would have been even better!)

Yikes, Al, lost one of twin engines twice within a few days?* Maybe somebody "up there" is trying to tell you something.

FlyWright wrote:
"How do you handle that kind of pressure/stress."

*an emergency is NOT an emotional event. It's a factual event. It's a situation to be dealt with using accepted procedures .

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*I know what you mean in the thread i started on "Whew hat was fun"

I talked about a hole in my boat. Same thing I went into fix it mode I knew what had to be done and went about solving the problem.

But dude!!!**It's gotta be tough trying to stay off the rocks in an airplane. A mistake and you are out'a there.

Hat's off to my friend.**Nice to know there are guy's like you at the wheel when something go's.**Shall we say afoul.

SD

*

When to retire?

Why, today of course

Looking forward to exploring BC's north and central coast for longer than 3 week 'holiday from work' increments

I guess I am “mostly retired, in that I only take the occasional contracting job. I have been doing this since I was 52 with year long cruising sabbaticals every couple of years. We have an income stream for life through pensions plus a decent savings and 401k. Early retirement usually takes much earlier planning. I decided at 30 that I was going to retire at 50. I only missed it by two years.

Group9 said:

Early retirement usually takes much earlier planning. I decided at 30 that I was going to retire at 50. I only missed it by two years.

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Agree with this. Very important.

We decided on work -- day 1 -- that 50% of our household income would go to retirement (we actually averaged 60%). We lived WELL below our means - it hurt sometimes. 30 years of compounding worked WONDERS! Retired early 2 years ago - loving life!

MurrayM said:

When to retire?

Why, today of course

Looking forward to exploring BC's north and central coast for longer than 3 week 'holiday from work' increments

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Congratulations!!!

I am not being flippant, This is a serious answer!!

When your house is paid for, when you have a decent car paid for. When you have all the toys you need and long for, including your boat (paid off). When you can figure out the health insurance problem.

And finally when you have a SOLID income stream of at least a thousand dollars a week (net).

pete

MurrayM said:

When to retire?

Why, today of course

Looking forward to exploring BC's north and central coast for longer than 3 week 'holiday from work' increments

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Congrats!

Greetings,
Mr. MM. Beauty, eh?

Pete Meisinger said:

I am not being flippant, This is a serious answer!!

When your house is paid for, when you have a decent car paid for. When you have all the toys you need and long for, including your boat (paid off). When you can figure out the health insurance problem.

And finally when you have a SOLID income stream of at least a thousand dollars a week (net).

pete

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That’s not being flippant at all. Thats's being realistic!

Too many people out there think in terms of trying to replicate their pre-retirement income and most of them fail at that. Why??? Simple, life gets in the way. You need a quarter million in the bank to replace every $1,000 you earn prte-retirement. Most will never get there.

Too few people out there think about the other side of the equation, money going out every month. They continue to re-finance their principal home. They continue to buy new vehicles. They continue to pile on credit card debt to support their lifestyle needs.

Then they reach a point where they are out of options. Mid 50’s, no actual path to paying off their house, etc....

The key to retirement planning is two fold. Plan for money coming in, and plan for eliminating debt. My opinion is eliminating debt prior to retirement is the most important one, and the one that most people overlook.

Think about it like this...

You need a half million in the bank to equal your two car payments, and some credit card debt in terms of income.

You need another half million (or more) to equal your mortgage payment.

Why not just pay those things off over time, while still saving for retirement at a reasonable rate?

Imagine the loss of pressure on you if you were in your 50’s with no mortgage, no car payments, and no credit card debt.

I am 58. Sitting in my paid off home right now. Looking out at my paid off trucks that are in great shape. Thinking about my boat payment that ends next year.

The day I make the last boat payment is the day I put in my retirement papers.

Pete Meisinger said:

I am not being flippant, This is a serious answer!!

When your house is paid for, when you have a decent car paid for. When you have all the toys you need and long for, including your boat (paid off). When you can figure out the health insurance problem.

And finally when you have a SOLID income stream of at least a thousand dollars a week (net).

pete

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Or if the things are not paid for a bigger income stream. There is no "one size fits all" here. What works for you may not be for another, and presenting your way as the only way is well..... I got 20 years left on my house and with a little luck I'll pay it off in time for my estate not to have to deal with it. But I have a matching steady income stream.... and, the boat is paid for.

The one thing never written on a grave stone is:


I wish I had worked another day.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. MM. Beauty, eh?

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Yup!

Snowed last night, so this is pretty much the first weekday in 27 years that I can go photographing at sunrise, not in the afternoon when snow has dropped from the branches. Beauty for sure!

We are small goldfish in a small bowl, so our financial needs are probably lower than most here on TF. Our house (humble duplex) has been paid off for over 10 years. The vehicle (reliable Honda) was also paid off years ago. Paid cash for the boat. No other debts. We also started putting money away into simple, principle guaranteed RRSP's 27 years ago and an RESP for our daughter when she was born.

So, when you add up my reduced pension (left 5 years early) plus my Canada Pension Plan, plus the bridge to age 65 (at which point my wife's Canada Pension Plan and our Old Age Security will more than compensate for the bridge disappearing) plus our RRIF set up for 25 years (probably won't be romping up into the mountains anymore and staying close to home at that age) plus not having to worry about health insurance (Canadian) it appears doable.

We only have one child, so we will deplete the RRIF ourselves and she will inherit the house.

My paycheques, after taxes and deductions was $3,000.00 per month, or $36,000.00 per year. My wife was a stay at home Mom, so that was our total income. We did get a little extra monies once in a while when we foster parented emergency drop off babies and toddlers, but it really wasn't enough make a huge financial difference. Money isn't why you do that anyways...

All in all, after taxes, we'll be getting 88% of my working take home wage in retirement income, all of it indexed to inflation (I'm old enough to have a defined benefit pension, unlike those hired today) except for the RRIF. We'll be in a better financial position than when we were paying off the mortgage.

Like I said; small goldfish comfortably living in a small bowl. We don't need the fancier things in Life, and have one of the worlds most amazing cruising grounds with the marina a few minutes drive away.

Our photographs have been selling locally (wife's wildlife photos alone make up the missing 12% in our monthly take home pay) so we're heading into retirement pretty much where I left off being employed, financially.

Oh, I see the sun has come up enough to go photographing

Like most things I believe it is best to seek balance.
Do spend everything for today, save for retirement.
Do not save all for the future, live for today as well.

Enjoy the trip and the destination equally.

When you reach the point where you do not have to sacrifice anything that is significant to your current life you are ready to retire.

Then it is time to retire.

I'm new to the forum and went back to the start of this thread - very interested read and certainly in this climate getting off the grid is appealing, but we will only do it when its a one way trip.

Question - some of the members who contributed in 2010/11 stopped posting a few years later (pubic profile/last post) ... I'm going to assume that they are just living off the grid, healthy and loving life ... but I'm sure some would offer one final word of encouragement - life is short, find joy, and live your life ... figure out what that is and start doing it as soon as you can.

Some stuff I learned:

Tomorrow is promised to no one. That "shot across the bow" came 11 years ago when I lost my dearly departed to cancer. Makes 'ya think about 'yer mortality, what's important, what is fluff.

It's not just how much does it take to retire, it is also about how little it can take to retire. I learned this wintering in Baja over last 13 years. My Mexican amigos/amigas there have next to nothing material-wise compared to most norte americanos, yet they are happy/housed and we always have a good time with familia and friends. And Mex med care has been good to me the couple times I've used it.

SSA: the actuarial tables for me (man) and the payout from SSA at 62 vs. 65 was such that the crossover point was out around 83/84 y.o. What I have seen from my "elders" is that by the time they got that old (if they did) they couldn't spend what was coming in because they couldn't do much anymore! A lot of people think they are going to beat that by waiting longer, about half wind up being wrong.

When I was managing jobs on site I ready an article about jobs, management and stress. The message was that most managers live 5 to 7 years less than "normal" workers. So what is the point in me working my butt off to "get ahead" as we used to say if I'm gonna keel over sooner!

I transitioned into full retirement over a period of about 10 years, last W2 income in '16. Now, don't know how I had time for all the work back then!

Joy is not in things, it is in us.

Mark Twain: "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."

John Lennon: " Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans."

GoneFarrell said:

Some stuff I learned:

Tomorrow is promised to no one. That "shot across the bow" came 11 years ago when I lost my dearly departed to cancer. Makes 'ya think about 'yer mortality, what's important, what is fluff.

It's not just how much does it take to retire, it is also about how little it can take to retire. I learned this wintering in Baja over last 13 years. My Mexican amigos/amigas there have next to nothing material-wise compared to most norte americanos, yet they are happy/housed and we always have a good time with familia and friends. And Mex med care has been good to me the couple times I've used it.

SSA: the actuarial tables for me (man) and the payout from SSA at 62 vs. 65 was such that the crossover point was out around 83/84 y.o. What I have seen from my "elders" is that by the time they got that old (if they did) they couldn't spend what was coming in because they couldn't do much anymore! A lot of people think they are going to beat that by waiting longer, about half wind up being wrong.

When I was managing jobs on site I ready an article about jobs, management and stress. The message was that most managers live 5 to 7 years less than "normal" workers. So what is the point in me working my butt off to "get ahead" as we used to say if I'm gonna keel over sooner!

I transitioned into full retirement over a period of about 10 years, last W2 income in '16. Now, don't know how I had time for all the work back then!

Joy is not in things, it is in us.

Mark Twain: "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."

John Lennon: " Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans."

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TOHO!!!!

(Today Only Happens Once)

ksanders said:

that’s not being flippant at all. Thats's being realistic!

Too many people out there think in terms of trying to replicate their pre-retirement income and most of them fail at that. Why??? Simple, life gets in the way. You need a quarter million in the bank to replace every $1,000 you earn prte-retirement. Most will never get there.

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$10,000

Edelweiss said:

We have some commercial property that we inherited, but we have always concentrated on single family homes, which would appeal to middle income families. I particularly like ranch style, three bedroom, two car garage, 1400 -1800 sq. ft. and buy nothing older than 20 years, they rent easy and are low maintenance. *I have one like this that we bought in 1993 which has been continuously rented except for one month since (only because we needed to paint it inside and out and put a new roof on it.)

This September, the current renter will have been in it for 9 years. *They pay $1000 a month and all utilities. We should be getting $1200, but don't like to raise rent on good renters who don't demand constant improvements. *So do the math, $1000 x 12 = $12000 per year x 9 years = $108,000. *We paid $129,000 for the house. You will probably ask, "Why is this person renting?" *Damm good question, but some people are just not interested in owning and have rented all their lives. *The key to getting good renters, is run a credit check and check county records for leans and adverse comments. *Don't rent to people who are dead beats and have a history of not paying their bills.

You're right, no condo's, unless they're in Manhattan, or downtown Seattle.

The rise and fall of the property value of the home is not that important, because we are not "flipping" properties. *As you say, the gain and loss in value is only on paper. The profit is derived from the rental income.

Stock funds are ok, I dabble in the market and have capital in a State Deferred Compensation program. *But I don't rely on this money for my retirement. *It's my form of gambling, instead of going to the casino with my for sure loser friends. *But you have to be on top of it all the time and get out when the market goes south and back in when you think it's turning around. *You have to do your research and follow the financial news. *It can be intense at times, (like right now!!) but a whole lot of fun!! * *

Larry B

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Interesting... my profile has been single family home rentals... mid income, similar to yours. No Condos, no commercial, no multi family an no dirt. Been there, and the SFH out performs them all with MUCH less effort.


I also don't invest in the stock market, it's just too volatile and unpredictable, but one can make a few dollars if they know how.



Now, for retirement, one REALLY needs an asset or investment that pays a return that covers all your living costs without touching the principal AND keeps up with inflation. So, if your living requirements are $1000 a month and you have 100,000k, you need to make 12% on the dollars and put them in something that will inflate. That simple. Just multiply on what you really need.

I went back and read my previous post in this thread from 8/2011.
I actually "retired" (the first time) in 6/2012 and we cruised Canada all summer.
Went back to work as a consultant for 6 months of winter, then we cruised all next summer.
Back again consulting for about 3 years with lots of time off, finally retiring for real in jan 2017 and moved from CT to FL.
No regrets, we just sold our boat in the summer and bought a new travel trailer, now were doing the land thing.
Life is good at the moment.

timjet said:

Edelweiss and superdiver,

Just curious what kind of real estate do you have? *I've heard mid to lower income housing is the most profitable.


-- Edited by timjet on Wednesday 3rd of August 2011 01:05:24 PM

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NO, certainly not lower income, more work, harder to buy/sell, lousy tenants BUT cash flow is higher if you like to collect it weekly with a gun in your pocket.

FlyWright said:

"This is my personal opinion - You are too young to retire and really not ready yet or you wouldn't be asking the question !!"

There are other reasons people retire. For example, Tuesday was one of those eye-opening days on the job. It highlighted for me that the working isn't everything, life is short and sometimes it's best to just slow down and smell the roses.

We were flight checking some airport lights at Coos Bay/North Bend, OR that guide aircraft into the runway at the proper approach angle to clear the obstacles. As we approached 1000 ft, the right engine failed. We executed a go around, retracted landing gear and flaps, climbed safely above all obstacles, declared an emergency and secured the engine. We diverted to Eugene to get enough runway for landing and attempted a restart. No oil pressure on restart, so we re-secured the engine and landed uneventfully.

I've been flying for 37 years and this is the first actual engine failure I've had to deal with. Of course, I've had hundreds of practice failures of every kind in the simulators over the years. I was hoping to retire without having one, but now that it's happened, I'm thinking, "Why not pull the plug at the earliest opportunity if the numbers all work out? Life's too short." I don't need to be rich to be happy...just enough to pay the bills and enjoy boating in retirement.

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Nice job on the engine out. I might have a tad more time and have lost 4 engine and had many irregulars, some that required emergency landings.... both in my career as a pro pilot for a major airline, and my personal aviation travels. BUT, overall love and and wouldn't have retired if I wasn't forced to. Still fly my plane a bit, was up this morning. However, I see the time coming where it will end, hopefully several years off.

ksanders said:

That’s not being flippant at all. Thats's being realistic!

Too many people out there think in terms of trying to replicate their pre-retirement income and most of them fail at that. Why??? Simple, life gets in the way. You need a quarter million in the bank to replace every $1,000 you earn prte-retirement. Most will never get there.

Too few people out there think about the other side of the equation, money going out every month. They continue to re-finance their principal home. They continue to buy new vehicles. They continue to pile on credit card debt to support their lifestyle needs.

Then they reach a point where they are out of options. Mid 50’s, no actual path to paying off their house, etc....

The key to retirement planning is two fold. Plan for money coming in, and plan for eliminating debt. My opinion is eliminating debt prior to retirement is the most important one, and the one that most people overlook.

Think about it like this...

You need a half million in the bank to equal your two car payments, and some credit card debt in terms of income.

You need another half million (or more) to equal your mortgage payment.

Why not just pay those things off over time, while still saving for retirement at a reasonable rate?

Imagine the loss of pressure on you if you were in your 50’s with no mortgage, no car payments, and no credit card debt.

I am 58. Sitting in my paid off home right now. Looking out at my paid off trucks that are in great shape. Thinking about my boat payment that ends next year.

The day I make the last boat payment is the day I put in my retirement papers.

Click to expand...

Kevin,



Those are awful expensive car, credit card and mortgage payments! And I could argue strongly to have no monthly debt on any of those. Mortgage on a house isn't bad, especially if it's a rental, and there's reason to "invest in debt" for those things. I've never had the pressure of a loan on a car, plane or boat unless it was revenue producing and paid for itself.

ksanders said:

You need a quarter million in the bank to replace every $1,000 you earn prte-retirement. Most will never get there.

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Because, for all practical purposes, it is mathematically impossible. Even with the most aggressive conceivable assumptions regarding savings rate, tax rates, before tax returns on savings, etc), you can't save, over the course of 40 years, 250 years worth of income. That's the bad news. The good news is you don't need to. For example, applying the formula to a pre-retirement income of $100K/year suggests a need for $25M. But if you have $25M in the bank, you only have to earn 1% on the money, even if you pay 50% tax, to cover that $100K (which is only $50K or so after tax) without ever touching the principal. In reality, one can expect to earn at least 8% pre-tax, and should expect to amortize the principal over perhaps 30 years (ie, retire at 60, plan to live to 90, and at 80 start tightening your belt, which probably happens naturally). Even if you want to take out an inflation adjusted $50K / year (ie, the after-tax equivalent of the pre-retirement pre-tax $100K), with 4% inflation one needs only $4.5M (sounds like alot, but not as compared to $25M, and equates to only $45K per $1,000, which is far less than $250K per thousand). Unfortunately, even accumulating $45K / 1,000 earned is difficult, but not mathematically impossible, for anyone whose income steadily increases over the course of a 40 year career. Good investments, especially an owner-operated business that can be sold for 50 + times the owner's annual draw, is probably the best way to save that kind of money.

I retired 20 years ago .. and I’m not 100yrs old.
Worked for me.

smitty477 said:

Like most things I believe it is best to seek balance.
Do spend everything for today, save for retirement.
Do not save all for the future, live for today as well.

Enjoy the trip and the destination equally.

When you reach the point where you do not have to sacrifice anything that is significant to your current life you are ready to retire.

Then it is time to retire.

Click to expand...

Good advice Smitty as usual! Also I see Kevin posted good advice also. In my case I split my retirement. There were some adventures we wanted that would have been less enjoyable in our 60's so at 49 I "retired" and we sailed for 4 years. That adventure could have lasted much longer and was intended to be a final retirement from a stressful career with the thought that I might do something more fulfilling in the future. However the financial crisis put an end to it in 2010. Then I went right back to work, until reaching 59. I did the numbers again, revised the retirement plan to de-risk financial investments and include rental apartments and retired a second time. Now after 5 years in my second retirement I have recently been able to employ my son as part time maintenance/turnover manager of about half my rental units (as his second job). If I buy one more building I will financially be able to transfer all the units to him, leaving me just with the rental approvals and collections.

I did start planning my retirement while in my 30's and have my XL worksheets detailing monthly progress from that age till now. Knowing your status and what is needed to succeed helped me maintain motivation.

Having the confidence to leave a high paying job took time, but it led to the adventure of our lives.
~A.