Wifey B: I'm got it.....Sailor Blue is pregnant? Is that it? :lol:
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Wifey B: I'm got it.....Sailor Blue is pregnant? Is that it? :lol:
Donsan
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Nah, they decided to sell and have Helmsman build them a bigger boat. 5footitis ya know.:lol:
Boat Test
Yesterday was a fun day with Mike Werling from Sea Magazine aboard for a boat test. I have written articles for Mike for the last nine years but we never met in person. After getting caught up and checking out the boat we started up the Cummins and motored to the bay for a few passes to record speed, RPM and fuel burn. As luck wouldn't have it we ended up doing this in the middle of a dang sail boat race which made things interesting. Mary and SB decided not to take the ride and took some great video of the boat from shoreline. It was a great experience and we look forward to seeing the article in a few months.
The Ottomans we ordered two weeks ago should be ready for pick up in two more weeks. Once these are aboard we should be done with interior. We are thinking about adding a removable aft deck sun protector for the afternoon sun which can really heat things when sitting outside.
We are exploring different dingy chocks and would appreciate any thoughts others can share. Thanks
Yesterday was a fun day with Mike Werling from Sea Magazine aboard for a boat test. I have written articles for Mike for the last nine years but we never met in person. After getting caught up and checking out the boat we started up the Cummins and motored to the bay for a few passes to record speed, RPM and fuel burn. As luck wouldn't have it we ended up doing this in the middle of a dang sail boat race which made things interesting. Mary and SB decided not to take the ride and took some great video of the boat from shoreline. It was a great experience and we look forward to seeing the article in a few months.
The Ottomans we ordered two weeks ago should be ready for pick up in two more weeks. Once these are aboard we should be done with interior. We are thinking about adding a removable aft deck sun protector for the afternoon sun which can really heat things when sitting outside.
We are exploring different dingy chocks and would appreciate any thoughts others can share. Thanks
Tender
Today we received word from the folks at Gig Harbor that our boat will be lay up this week and delivery in time for the 4th of July dingy parade. We decided to add an extra removable rowing seat for the rare occasions I decide to get some exercise by rowing. Things are looking good so far.
John
Today we received word from the folks at Gig Harbor that our boat will be lay up this week and delivery in time for the 4th of July dingy parade. We decided to add an extra removable rowing seat for the rare occasions I decide to get some exercise by rowing. Things are looking good so far.
John
A good day aboard
Sometimes the unplanned time aboard can be the best. We decided last minute yesterday to drive to the boat and spend the weekend. The weather turned out to be sunny but very windy so we quickly adapted to spending time aboard. Yesterday included walks along the bay (we enjoy the exercise) and a great bar-b-q chicken dinner using a recipe we forgot about for years, and yes a great bottle of wine.
Today we decided to go downtown to the convention center and check out the big boats. Boats up 200' can be found docked here. In between two large yachts was a Nordhavn 76 (funny how a 76'can look small). I noticed the name and quickly realized Mary and I spent a great evening aboard that boat in SD after she was commissioned and the crew was awaiting the owner to fly in the next day. That was ten years ago, wow how time has flown by.
If that wasn't enough we were stopped by a nice couple from AZ. who recognized me from a talk I did ten years ago at a trawler fest. Talk about a small world.
Jeddy emailed us and said the Ottomans would be ready next week. Looking forward to getting aboard. That's about it for this week. Work tomorrow but at least we are spending a few nights aboard.
Sometimes the unplanned time aboard can be the best. We decided last minute yesterday to drive to the boat and spend the weekend. The weather turned out to be sunny but very windy so we quickly adapted to spending time aboard. Yesterday included walks along the bay (we enjoy the exercise) and a great bar-b-q chicken dinner using a recipe we forgot about for years, and yes a great bottle of wine.
Today we decided to go downtown to the convention center and check out the big boats. Boats up 200' can be found docked here. In between two large yachts was a Nordhavn 76 (funny how a 76'can look small). I noticed the name and quickly realized Mary and I spent a great evening aboard that boat in SD after she was commissioned and the crew was awaiting the owner to fly in the next day. That was ten years ago, wow how time has flown by.
If that wasn't enough we were stopped by a nice couple from AZ. who recognized me from a talk I did ten years ago at a trawler fest. Talk about a small world.
Jeddy emailed us and said the Ottomans would be ready next week. Looking forward to getting aboard. That's about it for this week. Work tomorrow but at least we are spending a few nights aboard.
Lesson learned
What started out as a great planned weekend turned into another lesson learned. I took off work Friday to spend time with Mary and SB and get ready for a short run up to Mission Bay on Saturday. We also needed to be aboard for Jeddey to deliver the new ottomans which arrived around noon with fresh varnish still drying so we had to be careful handling them. They turned out great and fit perfectly.
With that out of the way we did a shopping for weekend and went to Old Town for excellent Mexican food. Anyone visiting SD needs to spend time checking out this great tourist spot. We planned to leave the marina by 0900hrs on Saturday to beat the strong afternoon stiff breezes and confused sea. We were running late and my ER check was rushed a little. Upon starting the engine we both noticed a slightly different sound so I immediately starting looking around. We had good cooling water exiting and instruments looked normal. Then I noticed the large red warning on the instrument control panel, it said check starboard engine. I attempted to obtain more information from the panel by scrolling through but I couldn't retrieve anything. This took about one minute then I shutdown the engine. I was confused since all my instruments showed normal operation. I thought possibly a false reading and turn the engine back on. The warning came on immediately and I quickly shut everything down before visiting the ER. As soon as I opened the door I smelled fuel ( never good) and looked at the engine to find a over a half gallon of fuel in the drip pan.
First thing I thought was where is it coming from? Before investigating I told Mary what I found and thought safety first. While I know diesel is not as flammable as gasoline I didn't like having that much in the drip pan and fumes so I shut down most electrical breakers and held off turning on the exhaust blowers. I was able to quickly diagnos the leak was on the engine port side, but from where? I decided to call Scott who was at TF but still picked up the phone. It didn't take Scott more than two minutes to ask me if the fuel return line was open. Dang it, I forgot to open it last week after tightening a valve that was seeping a little. With the cause of the leak known, it was time to understand the damage. Did I blow the fuel pump gasket and get fuel in the oil? Needless to say I was pissed at myself and thinking what this may cost me. After checking the oil and not seeing any fuel I felt a little better but still concerned.
I told Scott I needed to remove the fuel and then call him back. Fortunatly I had easy access to the drip pan which contained 100% of the spill and had all the fuel out within ten minutes. We then ran to West Marine for a few items including a small plastic fuel tank to pour the fuel into until I could dispose of it. Once back in the ER I was able to trace the leak to the fuel return line at the engine. It turned out the single clamp holding the rubber hose was not super tight and the connection not 100% allowing for the fuel to leak out under pressure. In other words I had a pressure relief valve of sort which saved the day. After a little more cleaning I tighten the hose connection and started the engine. Perfection! No leaks and no warnings. An hour later (after rechecking the oil) we ran the boat for 30 minutes on the bay and everything looked fine.
Lesson learned for me is to tag anything left in a nonoperational position and slow down while performing ER checks. More on how the design of the ER really showcased itself.
John
What started out as a great planned weekend turned into another lesson learned. I took off work Friday to spend time with Mary and SB and get ready for a short run up to Mission Bay on Saturday. We also needed to be aboard for Jeddey to deliver the new ottomans which arrived around noon with fresh varnish still drying so we had to be careful handling them. They turned out great and fit perfectly.
With that out of the way we did a shopping for weekend and went to Old Town for excellent Mexican food. Anyone visiting SD needs to spend time checking out this great tourist spot. We planned to leave the marina by 0900hrs on Saturday to beat the strong afternoon stiff breezes and confused sea. We were running late and my ER check was rushed a little. Upon starting the engine we both noticed a slightly different sound so I immediately starting looking around. We had good cooling water exiting and instruments looked normal. Then I noticed the large red warning on the instrument control panel, it said check starboard engine. I attempted to obtain more information from the panel by scrolling through but I couldn't retrieve anything. This took about one minute then I shutdown the engine. I was confused since all my instruments showed normal operation. I thought possibly a false reading and turn the engine back on. The warning came on immediately and I quickly shut everything down before visiting the ER. As soon as I opened the door I smelled fuel ( never good) and looked at the engine to find a over a half gallon of fuel in the drip pan.
First thing I thought was where is it coming from? Before investigating I told Mary what I found and thought safety first. While I know diesel is not as flammable as gasoline I didn't like having that much in the drip pan and fumes so I shut down most electrical breakers and held off turning on the exhaust blowers. I was able to quickly diagnos the leak was on the engine port side, but from where? I decided to call Scott who was at TF but still picked up the phone. It didn't take Scott more than two minutes to ask me if the fuel return line was open. Dang it, I forgot to open it last week after tightening a valve that was seeping a little. With the cause of the leak known, it was time to understand the damage. Did I blow the fuel pump gasket and get fuel in the oil? Needless to say I was pissed at myself and thinking what this may cost me. After checking the oil and not seeing any fuel I felt a little better but still concerned.
I told Scott I needed to remove the fuel and then call him back. Fortunatly I had easy access to the drip pan which contained 100% of the spill and had all the fuel out within ten minutes. We then ran to West Marine for a few items including a small plastic fuel tank to pour the fuel into until I could dispose of it. Once back in the ER I was able to trace the leak to the fuel return line at the engine. It turned out the single clamp holding the rubber hose was not super tight and the connection not 100% allowing for the fuel to leak out under pressure. In other words I had a pressure relief valve of sort which saved the day. After a little more cleaning I tighten the hose connection and started the engine. Perfection! No leaks and no warnings. An hour later (after rechecking the oil) we ran the boat for 30 minutes on the bay and everything looked fine.
Lesson learned for me is to tag anything left in a nonoperational position and slow down while performing ER checks. More on how the design of the ER really showcased itself.
John
dhays
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I admit to being a little paranoid about that very problem. Our engines don't do well if you close the return line. You were fortunate. I am always very careful when I mess about with the fuel manifold. I check and double check to ensure I have it setup correctly before I leave the boat. More so since being tall and since the manifold is below the primary filters, the valves are not super easy to see without getting down on hands and knees.
twistedtree
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A couple of tricks that might help.....
1) Just remove the handles. I have all my return valve handles removed. It takes a concerted effort to close one. But it does leave you exposed to then forgetting to re-open it if you do have to close it for some reason, like your repair.
2) I have also color coded my fuel valve handles using colored electrical tape. Green valves should always be open. Red valves should always be closed. That makes it real easy to confirm everything is set correctly. Yellow valves are expected to be operated as part of running the boat. So you should never find yourself operating anything other than a yellow valve. And if you find your hand on a red or green valve, you need to stop and explain what exceptional circumstance is causing you to do that.
1) Just remove the handles. I have all my return valve handles removed. It takes a concerted effort to close one. But it does leave you exposed to then forgetting to re-open it if you do have to close it for some reason, like your repair.
2) I have also color coded my fuel valve handles using colored electrical tape. Green valves should always be open. Red valves should always be closed. That makes it real easy to confirm everything is set correctly. Yellow valves are expected to be operated as part of running the boat. So you should never find yourself operating anything other than a yellow valve. And if you find your hand on a red or green valve, you need to stop and explain what exceptional circumstance is causing you to do that.
John - Glad you located problem and provided solution!
Unless I'm incorrect ...exhaust blowers you mention are supposed to always be with a sealed electric-ignition. That is so diesel and/or gasoline boats' captains can turn on the bilge blower for ten minutes before starting anything inside a closed-off ER. Gives time for fumes of high enough consecration for explosion to be amply evacuated so that explosion does not happen when a non-sealed spark maker has power supplied.
Maybe - in your diesel boat the blower's sealed electric-ignition is not required due to much less chance of diesel fume explosion than gasoline fumes. I bet your exhaust fans [bilge blowers] do have sealed-ignition qualities.
Cheers!
Art
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twistedtree
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Motors, switches, etc do not need to be ignition protected unless there is a gas engine involved
I thought all ER fans that are officially designated as "bilge blowers" were ignition protected by law. In that a "bilge blower" primary intent/use is to evacuate over loads of explosive fumes... be they gasoline or otherwise.
From what I've learned over many years, although very seldom this circumstance occurs, with special circumstances definably required... diesel fuel can become vaporized amply enough to have the vaporized molecules ignite via a spark when in heavy enough concentration. Of course gasoline fumes can easily become saturated into air... very, very much easier than diesel.
With all that said: It may be that in diesel boats the manufacturers do not install officially named "bilge blowers"... but rather they install what is simply termed an evacuation fan [a nomenclature I believe was mentioned in other thread] that does not have protected ignition design.
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During my refit we installed "Delta T" fans in the ER. Quality, and high performance. They are ignition protected. I would not have had them otherwise, irrespective of whether someone says ignition protection is not needed for diesel ER's.
I would regard fitting fans/blowers that are not ignition protected as poor practice.
There are sources of flammable/explosive vapours in boats apart from engine fuel, which can easily enter the bilge and ER. Including insect sprays with hydrocarbon propellant. Those things will trigger my propane alarms.
I would regard fitting fans/blowers that are not ignition protected as poor practice.
There are sources of flammable/explosive vapours in boats apart from engine fuel, which can easily enter the bilge and ER. Including insect sprays with hydrocarbon propellant. Those things will trigger my propane alarms.
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A few observations
Now that we have discussed my screw up I thought it would be interesting to look at a few things including how boats design impacted us. First observation is the location and accessibility if the fuel manifold. It is located on the starboard side of the engine on its own bulkhead and easily reachable. I give the design an "A". The ability to trace the hose back to the engine which went below the removable floor boards, behind the engine to the lower port side was easy. I give the ability to follow the hose an "A". Accessibility to the clamp on the engine side was a tight fit. If I was a big person I wouldn't have been able to squeeze in and lay down. I mentioned when building the boat we thought about adding an panel from the day head to the engine which would have worked great. I give engine port side access a "C plus". My ability to move around the engine room without opening the PH floor was great. Another "A". The ability to work this issue without having to lift any hatches instead using the ER access door really helped by not having to disrupt Mary or SB. As i mentioned many times I would not purchase a boat w/o an ER door for reasons like this. ER access gets an "A plus". I give the operator a big "F". ��
Now that we have discussed my screw up I thought it would be interesting to look at a few things including how boats design impacted us. First observation is the location and accessibility if the fuel manifold. It is located on the starboard side of the engine on its own bulkhead and easily reachable. I give the design an "A". The ability to trace the hose back to the engine which went below the removable floor boards, behind the engine to the lower port side was easy. I give the ability to follow the hose an "A". Accessibility to the clamp on the engine side was a tight fit. If I was a big person I wouldn't have been able to squeeze in and lay down. I mentioned when building the boat we thought about adding an panel from the day head to the engine which would have worked great. I give engine port side access a "C plus". My ability to move around the engine room without opening the PH floor was great. Another "A". The ability to work this issue without having to lift any hatches instead using the ER access door really helped by not having to disrupt Mary or SB. As i mentioned many times I would not purchase a boat w/o an ER door for reasons like this. ER access gets an "A plus". I give the operator a big "F". ��
Don't be so hard on yourself; that ain't the last mistake you'll eventually make.
So, say, did I miss photos of your ER access door, as well as ER inside without floor hatches open... and with hatches open? I love to look at things from all angles.
A steady follower of your thread - Art!
Holiday Weekend
Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday weekend aboard their boats. We didn't rush down to SD this week due to traffic and worked on the yard Saturday morning. Instead we arrived around 6:00pm and settled in for the balance of the the long weekend. The first thing I check aboard the boat was the ER to confirm no fuel leaks and everything looked normal. This morning we drove to the National Cemetery at Point Loma to view the thousands of american flags and pay respect to those who served. Lunch was at Pier 32 in National City but we drove instead of taking the boat. Back aboard we spent the afternoon relaxing and sipping on margaritas while listening to great new music. We are still very young at heart and enjoy young music, especially hot Latin sounds. Today we discovered Inna who sounds like Jennifer Lopez. Needless to say her Cola Song is worth exploring.
Work on the dingy is progressing and I will attempt to upload a few photos with this post. Scott is coordinating the davit manufacturing for us and yes we decided to customize the post style to add a hinge allowing us to keep it folded and low profile while not in use. Best of both worlds for us, lower cost yet complimentary look. Need to make another picture of margaritas so will sign off for today. Tomorrow we plan to take the boat out for a few hours and see how the ocean behaves.
John
Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday weekend aboard their boats. We didn't rush down to SD this week due to traffic and worked on the yard Saturday morning. Instead we arrived around 6:00pm and settled in for the balance of the the long weekend. The first thing I check aboard the boat was the ER to confirm no fuel leaks and everything looked normal. This morning we drove to the National Cemetery at Point Loma to view the thousands of american flags and pay respect to those who served. Lunch was at Pier 32 in National City but we drove instead of taking the boat. Back aboard we spent the afternoon relaxing and sipping on margaritas while listening to great new music. We are still very young at heart and enjoy young music, especially hot Latin sounds. Today we discovered Inna who sounds like Jennifer Lopez. Needless to say her Cola Song is worth exploring.
Work on the dingy is progressing and I will attempt to upload a few photos with this post. Scott is coordinating the davit manufacturing for us and yes we decided to customize the post style to add a hinge allowing us to keep it folded and low profile while not in use. Best of both worlds for us, lower cost yet complimentary look. Need to make another picture of margaritas so will sign off for today. Tomorrow we plan to take the boat out for a few hours and see how the ocean behaves.
John
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Update
Hello everyone, hope you are enjoying this boating season. We have spent time aboard sine I last posted but not really gone anywhere due to weather and timing. The GI is almost complete (I'll post photos) and looks great. We still expect to have it by the 4th. Thatsb about it for now.
John
Hello everyone, hope you are enjoying this boating season. We have spent time aboard sine I last posted but not really gone anywhere due to weather and timing. The GI is almost complete (I'll post photos) and looks great. We still expect to have it by the 4th. Thatsb about it for now.
John
tadhana
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Hi John. Cruising has been good here on the east coast. A bit of wind and rain from time to time; not a problem i a pilothouse trawler. We have been from the St. John's River in FL to Lake Champlain (close to 1,500 nautical), in the past 10 weeks. Looking forward to the day we see you two out here!
dirtdoc1
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Congratulations on your new Helmsman. I'm curious. Why the Helmsman instead of the North Pacific? It looks to be about the same quality and the same capability. I like the hardtop on the NP45. That was a nice touch. They even look very similar but there is something about the NP45 that I really like. Maybe it's the hardtop. The interior of the Helmsman is very nice but it's very nice on the NP. Was price the main consideration? I think the Helmsman is priced a bit more competitively.
We actually looked at the NP and spoke with Trevor more than once during our research. While our knowledge of the NP line of boats is limited we do appreciate some of their characteristics but in the end we selected the Helmsman 38 for its quality, hull shape, beam, low profile PH, value and proven capability based upon two other Nordhavn owners who owned H38's and used them hard in the PNW including many trips to Alaska. Hull design is very important to us and we discovered the Helmsman design is more a modified full displacement hull than a semi displacement hull which try's to offer both FD and SD speeds. The Helmsman hull is soft in all types of weather conditions where a SD design can be a little more rough. She is a 7.5 knot boat which was the speed we were looking for. Yes she will top out around 12 knot's but we will never reach those speeds and burn a ton of gas. We burn under 2GPH all day have a range of 800 miles which meets our needs. If we had to do it all over again we would build another Helmsman without spending another two years researching everything else out there. Hope this answers your question.
John
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Hmm, John I believe an FD hull around your length would top out at about 8kn. The fact that you cruise economically at 7.5 and top out at 12 means there is quite a lot of SD in the Helmsman hull. Of course the NP may be even further towards the planing end of the spectrum. And I hear what you say: your 38 rides soft, so they have got the displacement right and pretty much nailed the amount of SD characteristic to include.
dirtdoc1
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Hi John,
I didn't know about the hull difference. That was very helpful. Did you sea trial the NP45? I am also concerned about the hard chine design of the NP45. I have been looking at used late model Defever 49 or 50'. That's the boat I want but I don't want to spend $500k-$700k on a 10 year old boat. I think I'm going to end up with the NP45 because it's just about the right size for me and it's much more affordable. I'm going to sea trial the NP45 next week so I'll know better how she feels. Hopefully it will be a windy day.
While looking at the schematics I noticed that there was a 200 gal gas tank right next to a 175 gal water tank on each side of the boat. The two 175 gal water tanks could easily be used for gas instead. That would give her another 600 miles at 8 knots - at least. That would give her a range of approximately 1500 miles - conservatively. I'd add a high capacity water maker and put a 40gal water tank in the lazaret. I talked to Trevor about that and he said it could easily be done but suggested using the boat as is for a while, which I thought was sound advice. Any thoughts?
After reading your response I will be going in to the NP45 with a bit more information, so thanks for that.
Enjoy your new trawler and I hope to see you out there some day.
Cheers,
Dave
dirtdoc1
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It's a 2013 Carver C34 and it's for sale! Sorry about the sideways pics. They weren't that way originally.
Dave
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dirtdoc1
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I like your Ocean Alexander 50. I've been looking at a couple of 2006 OA 50's. Very nice boat. Excuse me, Yacht.
Dave
dhays
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I think any difference in the hull shapes are primarily marketing between the NP and the Helmsman. Both are SD hulls with the strengths and weaknesses inherent in an SD hull.
Both are well built boats. I would pick the one that has the layout that works best for you.
As for water/fuel tanks. 400 gal of fuel is a LOT of fuel. Unless you plan to cross oceans, or intend to drive the boat at it's max speed, it has plenty of range for a coastal cruiser. 350 gallons of water is a lot. I don't have a water maker because the PO pulled it out. He found he never needed it so it was a burden to maintain. A water maker would be good to have but I would hesitate to eliminate a water tank. The large tanks gives you a buffer in case you are in locations where you don't want run the water maker.
Btw, if you want to do passage making and want longer range, then I would suggest you not look at either the NP or the Helmsman. They are great coastal cruisers, but not passage makers.
I'm not one to debate others but I need to make a comment here. There "is" a big difference between the Helmsman hull and all other "coastal cruisers" and the difference is the Helmsman is a modified full displacement hull and not a traditional semi displacement hull. The simple proof is softer ride and maximum speed. Everyone knows the limit of a FD hull is related to its hull length. If our 38 was a true FD it would max out around 6knotts. A true semi displacement hull would reach speeds around 20 knots. The fact we cruise at 7-7.5knots and max out at 11 - 12 knots confirms the deviation or modification from FD is minimal and possibly one of the better balanced hull designs in the small coastal cruising market place. The boat doesn't try to compete with the large market semi displacement market of go fast trawlers and is a special boat for those who understand the benefits of a FD hull but want just a touch more speed (20%) while keeping great range (800 miles). Hope this clarifies my original response.
