Advice on weird looking trawler.

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

Hi all, New poster (been lurking and absorbing for a while). I am looking for a liveaboard (safe) passagemaker, and based on the excellent advice from cruisng through many forums/threads,* I've narrowed down my parameters.

* * steel hull********* *** >= 45' LOA

I have a *small* budget relative to you rich guys (~50K USD), so looking at old trawlers and boats.

I'm single with 2 dogs, so don't care about inside aesthetics, will modify from garage sales and creativity.

SO, after reading my whole story, my main priority is a SAFE and stable vessel (mostly for Caribbean, but will want to cross the puddle eventually, so it has to be worhy)...

I found this 57' Thompson Trawler Steel hull (steel cabin), but it looks really really weird, like a houseboat, but current owner swears (after neglince maintenance) it is ocean crossing sea worthy (fitted with 600 gal fuel, implying it was designed for it.)

But I'm skeptical. Any thoughts on merits (or lack thereof) of this design would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading!

--waterhawk* (sorry of the picture format is too big)

Tom.B · Jul 23, 2011

Looks like one of those boats they take out for a disco dance party on the top deck and slot machines below.

LarryW · Jul 23, 2011

I'm no expert myself but I don't see it crossing any big water. Looks like a river going houseboat maybe.
Larryw

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

GonzoF1 wrote:
Looks like one of those boats they take out for a disco dance party on the top deck and slot machines below.

*Yeah! right..* It does, in fact he was pitching as spiffing it up and taking people out on party nights (for money) or for 'world' cruising.***

seems like they are exclusive, but the more I looked at, it does seem like it has excellent drainage from the bow area, and boxed in everywhere else.

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

Here is pic of cabin (best I got so far), but it looks like a trailer inside*

Tom.B · Jul 23, 2011

I would not want to try and single-hand on that. I think I can speak for almost everyone here and say that walk around decks are a HUGE benefit. Besides, that's too much boat for you. For $50k, you can get a pretty solid boat. Will it cross oceans? Maybe, but that's more the captain's ability and not always the boat. I can't imagine what that boat did in a previous life, but since you are a lower income boater, like myself (and Bess), a boat like that will drain you in upkeep. I'd keep looking. But that's just me.

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

GonzoF1 wrote:
I would not want to try and single-hand on that. I think I can speak for almost everyone here and say that walk around decks are a HUGE benefit. Besides, that's too much boat for you. For $50k, you can get a pretty solid boat. Will it cross oceans? Maybe, but that's more the captain's ability and not always the boat. I can't imagine what that boat did in a previous life, but since you are a lower income boater, like myself (and Bess), a boat like that will drain you in upkeep. I'd keep looking. But that's just me.

*

Hmmm, well (*kshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh** sound of my bubble bursting), thanks for that tip.

It certainly lacks any decent walk around deck.* So maybe you are right.

I will go poke around for more input on single-handing tips, but from your perspective what would be the main factors for single-handing? besides the walk-around deck, which I will add to requirements.

Or, what would you think (roughly) would be the reasonable top end size for single-handing, for an energetic experienced (small craft 20'), I can handle a little stress when docking.

Thanks again for helping me out with your experience.

-- Edited by waterhawk on Saturday 23rd of July 2011 06:23:59 PM

Woodsong · Jul 23, 2011

Honesty, I would not trust that thing to take me 100 miles down the river, let alone across an ocean. It is a houseboat with a pointy bow. Nothing wrong with that- just don't try and cross an ocean or go out of sight of land on her.

$50k budget and you want to cross the ocean....I'd honestly go for a sailboat. A powerboat suitable to cross an ocean safely is going to cost you more than $50k. You can get a good coastal cruising trawler for $50k though but saying you are crossing the ocean kind of changes things and in that budget sailboat will be your best bet to do that and make it to the other side alive.

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

Woodsong wrote:
Honesty, I would not trust that thing to take me 100 miles down the river, let alone across an ocean. It is a houseboat with a pointy bow. Nothing wrong with that- just don't try and cross an ocean or go out of sight of land on her.

$50k budget and you want to cross the ocean....I'd honestly go for a sailboat. A powerboat suitable to cross an ocean safely is going to cost you more than $50k. You can get a good coastal cruising trawler for $50k though but saying you are crossing the ocean kind of changes things and in that budget sailboat will be your best bet to do that and make it to the other side alive.

*Really? I sailed a bit when I was a kid, so I understand the mechanics, but driving and managing a sailboat across the ocean seems daunting to me, I'm interested and could probably learn, by being someones mate for a bit.

I was hoping to find a decently safe powerboat, that is crap on inside but with good solid super structure.

So, you think the 50k is not going to be reasonable for that (aside from a rare steal.)?

Woodsong · Jul 23, 2011

You can get a good solid coastal cruiser/trawler for $50k but there is a huge difference between coastal cruising/island hopping and crossing the ocean.

JohnP · Jul 23, 2011

Woodsong is right,* Crossing an Ocean on a powerboat is for someone with deep pockets.

If you took Ocean Crossing off your list you might have a chance.

Otherwise a sailboat is the way to go. Safest small boats around.

JohnP

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

Woodsong wrote:
You can get a good solid coastal cruiser/trawler for $50k but there is a huge difference between coastal cruising/island hopping and crossing the ocean.

*Understood. I think based on input I will pass on this boat for what I need. bummer, I really wanted to make that happen because of cost and location...

So, I don't want to derail my own thread.. but..

I don't want to take advantage of your guys' input (which I appreciate, and will pay forward some day)...

But, (I know it's obnoxious) can I post another boat and pic here (just 1 more) and get your guys' opinion for perspective?

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

JohnP wrote:
Woodsong is right,* Crossing an Ocean on a powerboat is for someone with deep pockets.

If you took Ocean Crossing off your list you might have a chance.

Otherwise a sailboat is the way to go. Safest small boats around.

JohnP

Ok... on that thought, what's the learning curve for someone who is nautically inclined to single-hand an Ocean crossing sailboat (with general past and forgotten experience)?*

and what's the general thought (I've read it has a lot to do with rigging setup/location) on single-handing size for a sailboat?

I would, of course, have a crew for any Ocean Crossing, but not for Caribbean island hopping.

Tony B · Jul 23, 2011

I just happen to have*an ocean crossing*sailboat for sale. I am intending to buy a trawler. This boat is fully capable. It is a ketch rig which means it has 2 masts which makes it's sail configuration quite flexible. Great heavy weather boat.*And.......it is just a hair under your budget. We are living on it right now. Other than cosmetics, it's ready to go. 39' long 12 ft. wide, 37HP diesel and set of sails. Minimum bridge height is 50'.

-- Edited by Tony B on Saturday 23rd of July 2011 07:42:24 PM

-- Edited by Tony B on Saturday 23rd of July 2011 07:45:23 PM

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

Tony B wrote:
I just happen to have*an ocean crossing*sailboat for sale. I am intending to buy a trawler. This boat is fully capable. It is a ketch rig which means it has 2 masts which makes it's sail configuration quite flexible. Great heavy weather boat.*And.......it is just a hair under your budget. We are living on it right now. Other than cosmetics, it's ready to go. 39' long 12 ft. wide, 37HP diesel and set of sails. Minimum bridge height is 50'.

-- Edited by Tony B on Saturday 23rd of July 2011 07:42:24 PM

-- Edited by Tony B on Saturday 23rd of July 2011 07:45:23 PM

*I may be interested, going to sail is a big paradigm shift for me, but I think it's doable.

I'd really like a metal steel/allie hulll,, is it?

have any pics to throw up? I know this ain't the 'ketchforum', but ehh, it's a branch off main topic...

waterhawk · Jul 23, 2011

TonyB,

Just read your other thread, sounds like you are/were in same 'boat' as me...

I'm trying to be flexible like you were, Congrats on your new purchase (If they accepted your offer).

I noticed you mentioned you just put it up on yachtworld I'll check it out there.

*

El Sea · Jul 24, 2011

Being the owner of a 44' Thompson and having researched their history thru the years, I have never come across them ever being fab'd of steel.*

They are weird looking at times, with the high bow, low transom, hard chine and flat aft section. The first give away of a Thompson, is the air inlets to the engine room, I see them facing both directions, my face aft.

We carry 640 gallons of which approx. 600 gallons are actually usable and while turning 1300 rpms, doing 7 knots and burning 2.38 gph this gives us a cruising range of approx. 1700nm. But then if to fill both tanks with 2 tons of fuel this reduce the range.

surveyor1 · Jul 24, 2011

A person would have to see a whole lot more specs on that boat to make any kind of a judgement.
It may be a LOT tougher than it looks.

Actually, it DOES look pretty tough.

-- Edited by surveyor1 on Sunday 24th of July 2011 09:11:53 PM

waterhawk · Jul 24, 2011

surveyor1 wrote:
A person would have to see a whole lot more specs on that boat to make any kind of a judgement.
It may be a LOT tougher than it looks.

Actually, it DOES look pretty tough.

-- Edited by surveyor1 on Sunday 24th of July 2011 09:11:53 PM

*AHHHHHHHH!!! Really, from a guy named surveryor1??? (meaning I trust your opinion, don't think many would have balls to use that alias w/o having it backed up, and I'm newish so don't no reps yet).

I say that because, I thought so too, but I gave up on it, because it was odd and only got negative input... but to be honest I love it.. I'm really into SAFE and FUNCTIONAL, and everything else is fluff, and lots of top deck space...

I do get the point about no walk around deck, but I don't mind bolting through the cabin when I need too.

So, do you really think from that it's worth investigating and even looking at?

The blocky cabin shouldn't make it more unstable then really tall masts and bridges, right?

I thought, if it is indeed steel (which he said both cabin and hull were) it should be solid as well.

*

Thanks for input.

-- Edited by waterhawk on Sunday 24th of July 2011 09:28:50 PM

Tony B · Jul 24, 2011

Waterhawk

The boat you posted here may be steel buit it certainly does not look ocean capable. For one thing, an ocean capable boat this size would not have a high profile to the wind nor would it have large windows to be blown out. This boat looks like a steel houseboat capable of coastal cruising in clam weather. I have seen other boats that look like this. They usually have a V hull forward mainly in the bow area to give the appearance of seaworthyness and then the bottom quickly flattens out as it goes toward the stern. I could be wrong on this particular boat, but I doubt it.
As someone mentioned earlier, the only way to cross an ocean safely in a power boat is to have a $10 million or more boat.

If you really want to cross an ocean, a ketch rig is the way to go. Your sail area is spread over 2 masts which makes sail handling easier and the ketch rig offers more options in what kind of sails can be used in different combinations for varying weather conditions. I'm 64 and overweight and I can single hand my boat.

If you want to cross an ocean, you may be in open water for 30 days or more and a lot can and will happen in 30 days.

waterhawk · Jul 24, 2011

Tony B wrote:
Waterhawk

The boat you posted here may be steel buit it certainly does not look ocean capable. For one thing, an ocean capable boat this size would not have a high profile to the wind nor would it have large windows to be blown out. This boat looks like a steel houseboat capable of coastal cruising in clam weather. I have seen other boats that look like this. They usually have a V hull forward mainly in the bow area to give the appearance of seaworthyness and then the bottom quickly flattens out as it goes toward the stern. I could be wrong on this particular boat, but I doubt it.
As someone mentioned earlier, the only way to cross an ocean safely in a power boat is to have a $10 million or more boat.

If you really want to cross an ocean, a ketch rig is the way to go. Your sail area is spread over 2 masts which makes sail handling easier and the ketch rig offers more options in what kind of sails can be used in different combinations for varying weather conditions. I'm 64 and overweight and I can single hand my boat.

If you want to cross an ocean, you may be in open water for 30 days or more and a lot can and will happen in 30 days.

*Understood, but not to get all philosophical on you, but throughout my life I've struggled to overcome the hurdle of money, like most of us have, to be able to do the things the rich folks take for granted.* I'm going to find a way, in my budget, to make this happen, even if it's not this boat.

but I understand where you are coming from, but I'm trying to approach this the way it has worked for me in past.* I live in off the grid cement-block cabin, with no utilites and no NO PAYMENTS, screw them, I reject their paradigm and will make my own..

Sorry,, back on point, I will check into full hull configuration (thx for that tip).* I also see what you mean about the wind issue, but I'm not convinced and still am curious about further input,, is it really more unstable than a fully geared up modified trawler, it may be missing a wind channel, which MAY be critical...

-- Edited by waterhawk on Sunday 24th of July 2011 10:01:18 PM

-- Edited by waterhawk on Sunday 24th of July 2011 10:02:25 PM

FF · Jul 25, 2011

it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.

If you want seaworthy to cross oceans many older sailboats will do fine. I have a Beneteau Firtst 32 for $20K that crossed from Europe already.

If you want a liveaboard retirement roomaran , that boat might work . inland waters , but should be 1/3 the price you are quoting.

We had an Albin 36 that had a fab refrigeration fridge freezer and of course suffered all the usual TT problems , but it went for $25K, and would be far better to chance a trip to the Dom Rep , or down island, a near shore run.

$50K these days will get a fine vessel, but true Offshore would be far more expensive as so few are ever built.

waterhawk · Jul 25, 2011

FF wrote:
it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.

If you want seaworthy to cross oceans many older sailboats will do fine. I have a Beneteau Firtst 32 for $20K that crossed from Europe already.

If you want a liveaboard retirement roomaran , that boat might work . inland waters , but should be 1/3 the price you are quoting.

We had an Albin 36 that had a fab refrigeration fridge freezer and of course suffered all the usual TT problems , but it went for $25K, and would be far better to chance a trip to the Dom Rep , or down island, a near shore run.

$50K these days will get a fine vessel, but true Offshore would be far more expensive as so few are ever built.

*

He's asking 39K OBO...

How come you guys are saying only a sailbait is worthy in that price range?

What do you think is minimum (please don't say $10 million,, @TonyB

P* )in current market?

I've seen, with continued effort at looking after being berated for thinking about this one as candidate, a couple steel hull boats* 30-50K that seemed to be in decent condition...

What would you think about a 1970 47' Chris-Craft Roamer (with 2 DetDiesl* 285HP) steel hull?

Would that be more reasonable for an Ocean Crossing?

*

-- Edited by waterhawk on Monday 25th of July 2011 04:19:36 PM

markpierce · Jul 25, 2011

FF wrote:
it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.

*That's how my boat made its transpacific voyage.

*

*

-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 25th of July 2011 04:21:19 PM

Tom.B · Jul 25, 2011

Like my mother always said, "Your eyes are bigger than your stomach." If you are indeed struggling for cash in the long run, you NEED to find a better but smaller and newer boat. 53' steel nightclub boats and 42 year-old boats that are cheap will KILL YOU in routine maintenance and even just to get her up-to-snuff for the type of boating you are asking her to give you.

I would like to hear why you have your heart set on ocean crossing? It's not for the weary of a powerboat skipper. I thought like you when we were shopping. I had grand plans to take our boat to Fiji, or Greece while sipping wine and being fanned by beautiful and naked native women. A few dozen greasy t-shirts, lots of wine from a box, and thousands upon thousands of dollars in fuels system upgrades, bimini top, bottom paint, and slip fees has put that dream out for a viking funeral. But I love every single minute of it. There are several lifetimes of great boating with US and Caribbean waters.

I don't pretend to be an expert (I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but being single and "dollar challenged" will make boating a bit more of a handful for you than some (if not most). Us married folks can spread the love when it comes to all of the things that it takes to keep and old boat running and looking new. And unless you have an extraordinary amount of free time or a lot of friends that will work for free, you could quickly get in over your head. That will make boating not much fun anymore. Just examine your interest. A sailboat may or may NOT be the answer. Bess and I get by as avid boaters. We have to struggle to afford it and have put aside all of our previous hobbies to do it. We'll never regret it, but unless Ed McMahon comes knocking, it's unlikely we'll ever have the option to cross an ocean.

Not to say that Skinny Dippin' (or that CC above) COULDN'T do it, but it would take bigger balls than I have and a dang-site bit more experience too.

Woodsong · Jul 25, 2011

A Chris Craft crossing the ocean? Seriously? Don't even think about it. Just b/c a boat is made of aluminum or some metal or is approximately 50' in size does NOT mean you can cross an ocean in it. I've sold quite a few of the classic chris crafts....great boats, I love them, beautiful, etc. but they are a coastal/lake cruiser.
If you are going power boat, you need to be looking at Kady Krogen, Defever, Nordhavn. Cheapest Nordhavn that could cross the ocean on the market right now is a 1989 46' (more of the nord 46's have circumnavigated than any other power production boat ever built) and it is listed at $319k. You are fairly certain to NOT find a power boat, in any reasonable condition, capable of crossing the ocean for $50k. You won't find it for $200k.
The only reasonable boat that truly could cross an ocean in the $50k price point is a sail boat, period. Any cirumnavigator that is a power boat that you can pick up for $50k is going to cost you 5x's that to fix up to even start getting her capable. IF you switch over to just cruising the islands/USA east coast, a low cost trawler will be perfect and economical. You do NOT want to be out in this in some coastal boat:

I don't want to be on ANY boat in those conditions, let alone some boat designed to stay in shore like you are leaning towards. I am all for giving up the "normal" paradigms but oceans and waves and nature are kind of indifferent about philosophy- they are pretty much very indifferent actually.

If you want a good challenge and want to live free, how about going the opposite direction and row across the ocean. There is an entire movement of people that have done this....you would have a higher chance of living to tell about it in a properly designed ocean rowboat than trying to do it in a coastal cruiser.

P.S. That Chris Craft has a cruising range of only about 400 miles.

Tony B · Jul 25, 2011

waterhawk wrote:How come you guys are saying only a sailbait is worthy in that price range?

What do you think is minimum (please don't say $10 million,, @TonyB

P* )in current market?

I've seen, with continued effort at looking after being berated for thinking about this one as candidate, a couple steel hull boats* 30-50K that seemed to be in decent condition...

What would you think about a 1970 47' Chris-Craft Roamer (with 2

Would that be more reasonable for an Ocean Crossing?

*

*I am not a naval architect but the long and short of it is this. Generally, power boats for less than a few million dollars are just not designed for ocean crossing. They just ain't.

Sailboats - new price of around $200,000 ARE designed to cross oceans. They just are.

So, an older sailboat that is ocean capable can cost around $40 to $50K in fairly good condition.

An older ocean crossing power boat will cost around $200K and up (very up at times).*

What makes a boat ocean capable is not a steel hull or a fiberglass hull or a wooden hull. It is the design. Most circumnavigations by non-commercial individuals are done in sailboats made of fiberglass.

*

*

waterhawk · Jul 25, 2011

markpierce wrote:FF wrote:
it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.

*That's how my boat made its transpacific voyage.

*

*

-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 25th of July 2011 04:21:19 PM

Awesome, looks like good adventure in itself.

how big of boat do you have and how much did it cost, and what were your port origin and destinations?

very curious!!

waterhawk · Jul 25, 2011

GonzoF1 wrote:
Like my mother always said, "Your eyes are bigger than your stomach." If you are indeed struggling for cash in the long run, you NEED to find a better but smaller and newer boat. 53' steel nightclub boats and 42 year-old boats that are cheap will KILL YOU in routine maintenance and even just to get her up-to-snuff for the type of boating you are asking her to give you.

I would like to hear why you have your heart set on ocean crossing? It's not for the weary of a powerboat skipper. I thought like you when we were shopping. I had grand plans to take our boat to Fiji, or Greece while sipping wine and being fanned by beautiful and naked native women. A few dozen greasy t-shirts, lots of wine from a box, and thousands upon thousands of dollars in fuels system upgrades, bimini top, bottom paint, and slip fees has put that dream out for a viking funeral. But I love every single minute of it. There are several lifetimes of great boating with US and Caribbean waters.

I don't pretend to be an expert (I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but being single and "dollar challenged" will make boating a bit more of a handful for you than some (if not most). Us married folks can spread the love when it comes to all of the things that it takes to keep and old boat running and looking new. And unless you have an extraordinary amount of free time or a lot of friends that will work for free, you could quickly get in over your head. That will make boating not much fun anymore. Just examine your interest. A sailboat may or may NOT be the answer. Bess and I get by as avid boaters. We have to struggle to afford it and have put aside all of our previous hobbies to do it. We'll never regret it, but unless Ed McMahon comes knocking, it's unlikely we'll ever have the option to cross an ocean.

Not to say that Skinny Dippin' (or that CC above) COULDN'T do it, but it would take bigger balls than I have and a dang-site bit more experience too.

*

hah! I like your prose Gonzo!*

I suppose I do have a bit of that 1/2 errr,,, actually, naked native women fanning me while I'm at the helm.** But, I'm an adventurous person (quickly approaching the 40 cycles) and I can feel my sphere of invulnerability fading, and want to use it before it fades completely

...

HOWEVER, I don't consider myself stupid and try to avoid darwin candidate awards, and try to absorb and adapt to the wisdom of you pros, and old-timers (pisses me off when the 18 yr olds don't heed my warnings!!!).

I guess I'm bent on Ocean Crossing as adventure, but more interested in being able to cruise around the Eastern sector as I see fit,, maybe a year or so... I want to do it on a boat... I think the Ocean Crossing is a cool and fun adventure, but the main goal is to be able to cruise those continents.* I thought about chartering, but cost way too much for timeframe, and just settled on getting there by boat..

BUT! I haven't even thought about riding a coastal cruiser over as cargo,, pretty cool, and will pursue that.

And really I want to be able to cruise Caribbean for now, but feel like I should plan for my future plans into this purchase.. So, even thought I only need a Caribbean Cruiser for now, I feel compelled (probably wrongly) to get something that I can use in future (something suitable for crossing)... but If I can cargo ship it for something something reasonably more than cost of me getting there (including ship upgrades) I'd definitley do that....

-- Edited by waterhawk on Monday 25th of July 2011 08:00:40 PM

-- Edited by waterhawk on Monday 25th of July 2011 09:37:08 PM

waterhawk · Jul 25, 2011

Tony B wrote:*I am not a naval architect but the long and short of it is this. Generally, power boats for less than a few million dollars are just not designed for ocean crossing. They just ain't.
Sailboats - new price of around $200,000 ARE designed to cross oceans. They just are.

So, an older sailboat that is ocean capable can cost around $40 to $50K in fairly good condition.

An older ocean crossing power boat will cost around $200K and up (very up at times).*

What makes a boat ocean capable is not a steel hull or a fiberglass hull or a wooden hull. It is the design. Most circumnavigations by non-commercial individuals are done in sailboats made of fiberglass.

*Ok, understood...*

I'm just leary of fiberglass;* Only because of a few tidbits of input here and there spreading the gloom... and I try to fold that in.

I read these,, albeit rare, stories of being hit by a whale or running aground into coral, or hitting unseen debris.... I just read an article from a major manufacturer talking about the decision process of Ocean Crossing Vessels, and* deciding to push the designer to use steel because of the recent Tsunami in Japan and the project increase of debris in the Sea in the next 5-10 yrs.... Not sure where the project currents take that debris...

Anyway,, my impression, from PURE reading (no experience with Sea/Ocean crossing performance), was that the thought was fiberglass is cool as long as you are close enough to get help, not to say that steel can't be sunk (obviously), but the steel can better handle unexpected contigencies than fiberglass...

*

Advice on weird looking trawler.

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