Question about Survey as seller

Prospective buyer bringing surveyor to see my boat that is for sell. As a seller, do I just leave or stay on the boat?

At least in my experience as a buyer and as a seller, the surveyor did not want anyone on board, just him.

That is the broker's job. If you don't have one, stay with the vessel but DO NOT offer any comments until written report out. Answer very general questions. Many a deal has gone south due to gabby owner. Get a chair and sit on the dock if need be. Let these guys talk. Good luck

I have never had the seller aboard when doing a survey as the buyer. I do want to be aboard as the buyer when the surveyor does the survey. If a surveyor doesn't want me there when I am the buyer, I will find another surveyor. As the seller, I would leave them alone to do the survey.

In general I would agree- as the seller, stay out of the way. But there are instances where it is necessary and helpful:

Some brokerages don't want their brokers operating the boat for a seatrial, usually because there is no coverage from the sellers policy for this commercial use. You can often get a waiver to this restriction. But it is usually easier for the seller to operate the boat for the sea trial. Also the seller can be there and avoid any abusive operation, like running at wot for 15 minutes.

The seller can sometimes answer questions that avoids negative findings on the survey. In one case, if the seller were there he could have told us how the A/C could be set for heat pump heating.

David

I just had my vessel resurveyed.

I work from home (the boat) so I greeted the surveyor, and left him alone to do his business. I think about 5 words were exchanged between us the 5 hours he was on the boat.

Moral- let the surveyor do their job without interruption.

"As a seller, do I just leave or stay on the boat?"


I have dine both dependent upon the surveyor. I ask them ahead of time what they are expecting and if their requests are reasonable I try and comply.
On the last large boat I sold about a year ago I was there during the entire survey and supplied a lot of information both ahead of time and during the survey.

Comodave said:

I have never had the seller aboard when doing a survey as the buyer. I do want to be aboard as the buyer when the surveyor does the survey. If a surveyor doesn't want me there when I am the buyer, I will find another surveyor. As the seller, I would leave them alone to do the survey.

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Agree completely. As a buyer, I absolutely INSIST on accompanying the surveyor. I will try hard not to ask too many questions, and work hard not to interfere, but I want to see what he does and what he sees. If he is not okay with that, I will find another surveyor who is.

For the seller, it is a kind of a tightrope. From the buyer's perspective, it is nice if the seller is available in case questions come up. On the other hand, you don't want the seller hovering, getting in the way, interfering with frank conversations you might have with the surveyor. So the seller needs to be available, but out of the way. "Pull up a chair on the dock" sounds like good advice.

Last year we had our boat surveyed for possible sale. We kinda made a trip out of it . We had to take the boat twenty miles north on the river to a marina with travel lift. We stayed on the boat the night before and greeted the surveyor the next morning. We left the boat and just kinda hung out at the boatyard looking at boats and talking with yard manager while surveyor and potential buyer went over the boat .We wanted to check out the yard and their work incase the sale didn't go through we were planning on coming back for bottom job in a few months .

Being available if the boat is large with many systems and buttons (read if the surveyor is thorough and actually turns everything on) he will save a lot of time on some boats if the seller is available.


Being available doesn't mean aboard unless invited to participate


I have had one surveyor who went through my sportfish with me and we enjoyed shooting the bull as he went about his business. It wasn't a complicated boat, plus he knew my background and thought it might help him.


But every situation might be different.

Being close by and available but not underfoot is the best for the selling broker and seller. The surveyor is employed by the buyer and they can sort out their relationship. Seller is good to have around to answer questions and operate machinery and the vessel during sea-trial.

The last boat I sold and the last two boats I bought, the seller was not present for the survey. I don't plan on being present with my sailboat is being surveyed by potential buyers. The broker will however.

alormaria said:

Being close by and available but not underfoot is the best for the selling broker and seller. The surveyor is employed by the buyer and they can sort out their relationship. Seller is good to have around to answer questions and operate machinery and the vessel during sea-trial.

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This. Important on a complex boat. Not so important on a basic production boat or something like a 25' outboard.

I do engine surveys and I like having the owner around to answer questions about history, maintenance, operating modes, problems, etc. Not as important for the hull/insurance surveyor.

But I don't like it when the owner (or anyone else) hovers over me and chats me up. I have asked for quiet time before.

As a buyer, it bothers me if the seller gets to involved in the survey. A couple of years back, we had put money down on a nice looking boat, waiting for the mechanical survey, the seller came to the boat and changed all the fluids and filters before the surveyor got there to do his inspection. As a result the surveyor said that he could not get an accurate oil reading of contamination. This was the start of distrust of the seller, as though he was trying to cover-up and hide things. Which we later found to be the case.

Bradlesh said:

Prospective buyer bringing surveyor to see my boat that is for sell. As a seller, do I just leave or stay on the boat?

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As the owner, you have a right to be there. I would want to (will be if anyone gets that serious), because when I bought mine, having the owner there to explain certain things saved a lot of wasted time, and unanswered queries. Because, let's face it - there are always certain quirks in the way our boat works that are simply explained if you know it, and inevitable questions about what was done, and when, that might not be logged in any one place, but can be easily answered when known by the owner, but waste a lot of time figuring it out, or being left 'dangling' if you don't.

mramoo said:

As a buyer, it bothers me if the seller gets to involved in the survey. A couple of years back, we had put money down on a nice looking boat, waiting for the mechanical survey, the seller came to the boat and changed all the fluids and filters before the surveyor got there to do his inspection. As a result the surveyor said that he could not get an accurate oil reading of contamination. This was the start of distrust of the seller, as though he was trying to cover-up and hide things. Which we later found to be the case.

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That is very common whether the seller is present or not.

My oil would probably be freshly changed too, after all long trips I usually do and that unless an estate sale would be my story.

The difference is any kind of maintenance log that would show it as normal versus cover up or last irregular. Like my oil analysis log of so many years ...it would answer that too.

There are honest and dishonest sellers, a good surveyor should pick up on that pretty quick.

psneeld said:

That is very common whether the seller is present or not.

My oil would probably be freshly changed too, after all long trips I usually do and that unless an estate sale would be my story.

The difference is any kind of maintenance log that would show it as normal versus cover up or last irregular. Like my oil analysis log of so many years ...it would answer that too.

There are honest and dishonest sellers, a good surveyor should pick up on that pretty quick.

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Another reason to ask the surveyor what if anything he would want ahead of time.
If it was season end or in storage the fluids would be changed on my boats.
During the season it would be an unlikely situation the fluids were just changed - but why leave it to luck?
Once you are aware of a surveyor coming its just easier to ask a few questions to see what (if anything) he/she may want ahead of time and/or for the survey. If they do not tell you I doubt you will be able to know what it might be.

smitty477 said:

Another reason to ask the surveyor what if anything he would want ahead of time.
If it was season end or in storage the fluids would be changed on my boats.
During the season it would be an unlikely situation the fluids were just changed - but why leave it to luck?
Once you are aware of a surveyor coming its just easier to ask a few questions to see what (if anything) he/she may want ahead of time and/or for the survey. If they do not tell you I doubt you will be able to know what it might be.

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While many boat models are similar...we have all seen that the older the boat becomes, the more unique it often becomes.

If the surveyor actually turns on every system like they often say they do...hooking up normally disconnected items and noting where the switches are can be a huge help.

Some people prep their boats for survey....others don't and you see it in the survey.

If you have ever needed to go aboard another older boat and run it for someone...you have a pretty good idea of what is hard to figure out and what isn't.

denverd0n said:

Agree completely. As a buyer, I absolutely INSIST on accompanying the surveyor. I will try hard not to ask too many questions, and work hard not to interfere, but I want to see what he does and what he sees. If he is not okay with that, I will find another surveyor who is.

For the seller, it is a kind of a tightrope. From the buyer's perspective, it is nice if the seller is available in case questions come up. On the other hand, you don't want the seller with the surveyor. So the seller needs to be available, but out of the way. "Pull up a chair on the dock" sounds like good advice.

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EXACTLY, to all above denverdon.

Bradlesh said:

Prospective buyer bringing surveyor to see my boat that is for sell. As a seller, do I just leave or stay on the boat?

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A few points to note when asking for a Survey,

1) Ensure the Surveyor has experience in your type of vessel/construction
2) Ensure he/she has P & I insurance
3) Ensure he/she is a current member of a recognized Surveyors association
4) No surveyors should be allowed on board without the Owners permission
5) All surveyors must positively identify themselves and their principals
6) Has the scope of their attendance been agreed with Owners and Club?
7) Surveys must be carried out jointly
8) No unsupervised access to crew or documents
9) If documents are requested, a list should be submitted for consideration by the principal

So back to your specific Question: as being on board or not,as above every Surveyor should have the owner or his representative on board and should have made such arrangements prior, it is not common practice to have the buyer on board at this time, after the Survey report is received by the buyer and with agreement of the seller a second visit to the vessel by both the Surveyor and buyer may be under taken.


Cheers Steve(MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)

CaptSteve53 said:

A few points to note when asking for a Survey,....it is not common practice to have the buyer on board at this time, after the Survey report is received by the buyer and with agreement of the seller a second visit to the vessel by both the Surveyor and buyer may be under taken....

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It may be common practice in Philippines, but not in Australia. It`s common here for the buyer to be present, with the surveyor, as survey proceeds. The buyer who is present will be better informed than by reading a written report, and can ask questions. Saves the need for the second visit too.

BruceK said:

It may be common practice in Philippines, but not in Australia. It`s common here for the buyer to be present, with the surveyor, as survey proceeds. The buyer who is present will be better informed than by reading a written report, and can ask questions. Saves the need for the second visit too.

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As stated Not commonly done (but can attend after checking with the Surveyor/owner),

This is due to the Surveyor usually requires concentration while performing his duties and dosent need to be side tracked by issues that may not be included in a Pre Sale Survey, The written report (inclusive pictures) far out weighs verbal conversations,IMHO

Quite often the Seller is also not comfortable with the Surveyor and buyer attending at the same time, and having the seller there is PRIMARY.

The second visit if required (shouldn't be necessary with a well presented report)may not be a bad thing as it gives you a final chance to change your mind !

As the vessel has normally been inspected by the buyer previously he is always encouraged to present any area's he/she feels a closer inspection
red flags should be under taken,

It's always the Surveyors decision as to if he wants the buyer there (or not) so asking prior would be the norm! (every ones different!)

Just to note, living in the Philippines dosent mean under the IIMS-Lloyd's maritime that i work here, most of work is offshore Commercial and private in all countries of the world(including Australia/Nz) so here again i am posting my own historic dealings/experience with Surveys over the past 40 years,

For everyone involved, the most important thing is to hold onto perspective and your sense of humor. At some level, it’s just a boat. If we’re able to concern ourselves with boats, chances are we’re doing pretty well in life—we’re not starving or living in a war zone, and there are more boats and buyers out there if the one involved with this survey isn’t the right fit.

Cheers Steve

Though sometimes the boat is the buyers or sellers home so it isnt just necessarily a sideshow.

During a survey as a buyer or seller I'll be there, at my opting. But as a buyer, I will be there and will ask the surveyor questions throughout the inspection, and yes, it will take more time. That's what he's getting paid for.

BruceK said:

It may be common practice in Philippines, but not in Australia.

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Same here. But I think the big take-away is that what is "normal" practice in one place may be absolutely unheard of elsewhere. You need to do your research and understand the standard practices wherever it is that you are buying your boat. In particular, if you are buying a boat in a different country from where you live, be aware that "normal" may seem quite abnormal to you!

seevee, brucek, denverdon....EXACTLY.....
though important not to bother surveyor;....observation, staying out of surveyors way access,... with minor / short interruptions is needed from me, an experienced buyer,captain, sailor....
"Commonly done, standard practice, not usual"..is not going to apply to my purchase on any 30 yr old vessel...I don't have time to waste on a second visit needing the surveyor again,.. to attend....no...
I would not be paying you Captsteve...my decision to buy a boat, as a liveaboard cruiser is a paramount decision in my life....momentous!!!!
Nothing in my life is more important than the vessel I am about to buy and live on....nothing...a sense of humor is wholly absent at this time....I can't afford to have a $5000 plus cash Surprise , after purchase...I need to know up front an exacting assessment of future repairs....that is why you are being paid as a surveyor, to apprise me of the vessels needs....before I purchase..
additionally: being present at time of discovery of defects...far outweighs pictures and written words after the inspection...by far....!

bigthaw said:

seevee, brucek, denverdon....EXACTLY.....
though important not to bother surveyor;....observation, staying out of surveyors way/access, with minor / short interruptions is needed from me, an experienced buyer/captain, sailor....
"Commonly done, standard practice, not usual"..is not going to apply to my purchase on any 30 yr old vessel...I don't have time to waste on a second visit needing the surveyor again,.. to attend....no...
I would not be paying you Captsteve...my decision to buy a boat, as a liveaboard cruiser is a paramount decision in my life....momentous!!!!
Nothing in my life is more important than the vessel I am about to buy and live on....nothing...a sense of humor is wholly absent at this time....I can't afford to have a $5000 plus cash Surprise , after purchase...I need to know up front an exacting assessment of future repairs....that is why you are being paid as a surveyor, to apprise me of the vessels needs....before I purchase..

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And that is what is done in the written report, usually around 20-30 pages in my reports (depending on boat size?), if it means a second visit to clarify points (which I quite often do in order to re-check, clarify or visit some thing i may have missed(or thought I have missed-due to being interrupted!) in order to protect my client and also myself from liability claims),

I'm at a loss regarding your statement(I don't have time to waste on a second visit needing the surveyor again,.. to attend....no...)and where as further on you state(Nothing in my life is more important than the vessel I am about to buy )and my decision to buy a boat, as a liveaboard cruiser is a paramount decision in my life....momentous!!!!and you dont have time for a second vessel attendance ?????.

Bottom line -Side tracking the Surveyor is a common mistake and why many of us prefer you read the report first, and if any items are not clear then perfectly happy to explain /re visit in detail, As an experienced Captain /sailor you will appreciate how being side tracked at a critical junction can completely put you off the game,

Now I and many other licensed Surveyor's acknowledge this risk and there fore prefer to direct our attention to the job at hand (in the first instance!), suffice to say I have never had a liability issue in 40 years (perhaps as I encourage the buyer to wait for the report?), As a part of Lloyd's maritime organization we pride our organization as a world leader and plan to stay that way.( Please note- I have never said I dont allow buyers to attend !! and out of probably numerous thousands of Survey's in my time I have had a few hundred Buyers attend)

"A sense of humor is part of the art of leadership, of getting along with people, of getting things done" - Dwight D. Eisenhower


Cheers Steve

If you are the seller, it's still your boat and you have the right to be on it. You want to make sure nothing gets damaged. Same for the sea trial.

I think it's best to stay out of the way and only speak if someone asks you a question or is missing something.

time to waste, refers to a vessel not worthy of a second inspection...in other words , serious, , perhaps unseen defects are known immediately...not worthy of a written report..not to worry: the surveyor will be paid for his time and used on the following vessel....next...
captsteve... ALL my above comments stand........cheers

Here in Fort Lauderdale, the yachting Capital of the US, it would be very uncommon not to have the buyer on board for the survey. I tell my clients that it is critical for them to be onboard for the sea trial, if not for the entire survey, sometimes on a larger boat that may be two or more days for survey. If a surveyor said they did not want the buyer to take up their time asking questions I would suggest a different surveyor. Many times a good surveyor will verbally explain a finding differently than in his written report, explaining how an item might be repaired or updated in different manners at different expense levels.
Typically at the end of the day after the sea trial we all sit together, buyer, brokers, and surveyors to go over the findings. The surveyors will look through their notes and talk about the highlights and explain and answer questions on the spot. The written report comes later but the buyer has the important stuff on the spot. Many of the surveyors are booked well in advance and cannot come back easily another day. There is an engine surveyor here in Fort Lauderdale who has done over 5,000 engine surveys and he is booked enough it is hard to get him on short notice.
Here in Florida we often sell boats for buyers and to sellers who do not live nearby. Often a captain is hired for the day to run the boat and I ask that the seller be available to answer questions by phone.