Putting an offer on a boat sight unseen tomorrow

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Steve91T

Steve91T

Guru
Joined
Sep 12, 2016
Messages
898
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Abeona
Vessel Make
Marine Trader 47’ Sundeck
I knew that would get your attention. Allow me to splain....

Very very long story short, we live on lake Norman in Charlotte, NC. We have a 20' Mariah open bow and use it about 3 times a month. We love being on the lake. So does our 3 yr old. She's been boating since she her mom would allow her to go.

So...

We fell in love with a 36' aft cabin Mainship. But we absolutely wouldn't be able to ship it to the coast once a year because the fly bridge would have to come off.

So then we decided on an express cruiser. We looked at a very nice 32' Maxum 3000 SCR. It was nice but we just don't want an express cruiser. But it has a decent living space and will be easy to ship.

Then we found this thing.

Used 1996 Mainship 31 Sedan Bridge, Folly Beach, Sc - 29412 - BoatTrader.com

We have done the worst thing we can possibly when shopping for a boat...fallin in love.

We've read everything we can find on the internet about it and people with families really seem to like it. We've watched every YouTube video we could find and it's the boat for us.

It looks like shipping only requires removal of the radar arch and Bimini. I can handle that.

Our plan is to enjoy nights on the lake and maybe in a year ship it to the coast and explore the intercoastal and eventually get it to the Bahamas.

So, I'm thinking about skipping the survey. Before you guys fall out of your chairs, let me explain...

From what I've read they are kinda like house inspectors. They know a little about everything, specialize in nothing. (I mean no offense)

I'd hire a mechanic to look over the boat for us. We can't see the boat for another week and a half. So I'm thinking about making an offer contingent on a river trial and mechanic inspection.

Any and all opinions, good or bad or awful, will be appreciated.

Thanks guys.
Steve
 
I would definately make the offer contingent on a sea trial and a survey. Whether you actually follow through and have a survey performed can be decided after you see the boat and what shape it is in superficially. I personally would have the survey done and your insurance company may require one. Having a survey can help you negotiate a lower price after the survey. I have bought boats sight unseen, but left myself the above outs in case the boat was not as described. I like the 31' Mainship although it isn't a trawler.
 
Comodave said:
I would definately make the offer contingent on a sea trial and a survey. Whether you actually follow through and have a survey performed can be decided after you see the boat and what shape it is in superficially. I personally would have the survey done and your insurance company may require one. Having a survey can help you negotiate a lower price after the survey. I have bought boats sight unseen, but left myself the above outs in case the boat was not as described. I like the 31' Mainship although it isn't a trawler.
Click to expand...

Well I was thinking about not getting a survey and just using a mechanics professional opinion.

I will be oporating this boat at displacement speed. I wish it had twin diesels, or at least 350's, but such is life.
 
Looks like a great boat for a small family, but...

Surveyor will be objective, you are already sold. e.g. the electronics appear to be original and would need to be upgraded if you do any serious ocean cruising. Surveyor can do the sea trial and mechanical such as oil analysis, compression checks, zinc checks, etc.

Your goal is not to lock the sale in, but take it off the market so you can do a thorough inspection, and have as many contingencies as possible so you can back out if the engines have been run hard and put away wet. "Subject to survey satisfactory to buyer" is a start.

Good survey will be $500-1000 and is worth every cent for a 20+ year old boat. THEN comes the offer contingent upon the owner either escrowing funds to repair the defects or discounting the offer.

Slow down. There are a lot of Mainship 31 sedans out there.
 
Check with your insurance company or broker. Usually they will not insure a boat older than 10 years without a survey done by an accredited surveyor and all mandatory items found fixed.

Those twin 454s will burn a lot of gas. Even if you keep the speed down to 6-7 kts (displacement speeds) you will burn about 5 gph.

And when you open them up, wow!!!

David
 
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I think you missed ComoDaves point: Your insurance co will most likely require a survey. If you have to pay for one anyway, its in your best interest to get it BEFORE you own it, not after. A mechanics opinion does not fulfill the ins co requirement. Don't know why you want to shortcut yourself.
I have put a deposit down on a boat unseen; a production center console boat that I had time to spend mucho time on her sistership owned by a friend. Trust me, they rarely take pics of the bad stuff, only the good. No matter how good it looks in the pictures, there will be some problems that you want to see (or smell) in person. Never again!!!
 
Steve91T said:
Well I was thinking about not getting a survey and just using a mechanics professional opinion.
I will be oporating this boat at displacement speed. I wish it had twin diesels, or at least 350's, but such is life.
Click to expand...

Twin 454's? Probably burn more at idle than my twin diesels at WOT :thumb:

A mechanic isn't going to check the condition of the stringers, the engine mounts, operation of the through hulls, etc etc etc. A boat is more than a smooth running engine.

Guy in the slip opposite me just bought a used 35 ft with twin crusaders. No survey. He was towed into the marina. So far he has replaced a starter, all the oil coolers, mechanic was there yesterday for couple of hours because one engine idled somewhere past red line. He now thinks he overpaid for the boat.

(EDIT - Note that you can get a basic liability and oil spill coverage policy (mandatory if you keep boat at any marina) but you won't be able to get hull insurance without a survey)
 
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It looks nice in the photos, but so do some really bad boats. Try to be objective when you look at it. That is where a surveyor come in handy. Also if you finance it, the bank will probably require a survey as well as the insurance company. Cover your rear end when you make the offer and have as many outs as possible, you don't have to use the survey if you don't want to, but put it in the offer.
 
Sorry guys forgot to add that my insurance does not require a survey.
 
BTW, no one is trying to rain on your parade, just help you protect yourself. We are on our 23rd boat and I am one to fall in love with one and overlook problems. Then I have to deal with the problems, but that is my passion in life, working on boats.
 
I don't know this boat but skipping a survey could be disastrous. Too many boats have serious problems which could cost as much to repair, or more, as the boat cost you.

Certainly there are good surveyors and bad surveyors. Ask around and ask HERE for recommendations in the area of the boat's location. Same for a good mechanic to assess the engine.

As mentioned the insurance co, will likely demand a survey as they will want to cover themselves. I'll bet the bank will also require it if you are in need of a loan.

Self surveying can work IF you had some serious boat experience but from the sounds of it you are not there.

Word it as suggested above other wise you could open yourself up for a disaster, both boat and financial.

Now you have not suggested the asking price and it does not matter. If the boat is just a few thousand dollars and you can afford to kiss it off if the boat is a failure and you lock yourself in, fine. But otherwise that missed survey could save your bacon.
 
It's hard enough getting good boats when you do see them.

Good luck. Keep in touch. Best wishes...
 
djmarchand said:
Check with your insurance company or broker. Usually they will not insure a boat older than 10 years without a survey done by an accredited surveyor and all mandatory items found fixed.

Those twin 454s will burn a lot of gas. Even if you keep the speed down to 6-7 kts (displacement speeds) you will burn about 5 gph.

And when you open them up, wow!!!

David
Click to expand...

David is right.
This is the most important reason for a survey. I would have happily dispensed with one when I bought our boat, as the surveyor found nothing I had not already, but the Insurance co insisted, and without insurance cover it is hard to go anywhere - like a marina berth, even temporarily, etc.
 
Steve91T said:
Sorry guys forgot to add that my insurance does not require a survey.
Click to expand...

Wow, sorry missed this post, hence comments above, but that is one very accommodating insurance co. I wonder how they stack up in the insurance world..? :confused:
 
Have you checked with your insurance company about this specific boat as to needing a survey? Some companies don't require a survey on smaller boats but do with larger boats especially over 10 years old. However it turns out, hope you end up with a great boat.
 
Make your offer contingent upon your final sea trial approval. Maybe by then you'll come to your senses and pony up for a proper survey. If not, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if it becomes a money pit.

What kind of range are you expecting out of this vessel? Enough for the Bahamas?
 
An offer sight unseen?.... That's a brave move.
I've bought a house sight unseen but I don't think I'd do it with a boat.

Make sure the photos are dated.
 
Curious, why bother asking here if you have already made up your mind?
 
you said you've done all your researh and are sure this is the boat for you. I assume you've seen this review then:

Boat Review by David Pascoe - Mainship 31

he may be excessively harsh but he points out a number of important details ( and includes photos ) that would definitely make me want that boat surveyed before I bought it. A few excerpts:

keep in mind 2 things....this boat was only 3 years old when reviewed....and are these things a mechanic would find ?


Let's start with glassed over plywood stringers and frames. There's nothing wrong with using plywood if you do it right, only they didn't. First, we found about 15 holes cut in them with hole saws, leaving the plywood exposed......

...... we found the plywood sucking up water, expanding and cracking. Up in the forward bilges we found limber holes cut in major frames that were starting to rot (see photos below).

...for in the vicinity of each of these glassed-in doubler blocks we found major weep holes (see photo above right). Then we have some bolt-on attachments on the transom below the waterline, where the bolts apparently were not caulked, and which were leaking.

...we found all those nice fabrics around and below the windows to be all wet, three days after the last rain?
 
Steve91T said:
I knew that would get your attention. Allow me to splain....

Very very long story short, we live on lake Norman in Charlotte, NC. We have a 20' Mariah open bow and use it about 3 times a month. We love being on the lake. So does our 3 yr old. She's been boating since she her mom would allow her to go.

So...

We fell in love with a 36' aft cabin Mainship. But we absolutely wouldn't be able to ship it to the coast once a year because the fly bridge would have to come off.

So then we decided on an express cruiser. We looked at a very nice 32' Maxum 3000 SCR. It was nice but we just don't want an express cruiser. But it has a decent living space and will be easy to ship.

Then we found this thing.

Used 1996 Mainship 31 Sedan Bridge, Folly Beach, Sc - 29412 - BoatTrader.com

We have done the worst thing we can possibly when shopping for a boat...fallin in love.

We've read everything we can find on the internet about it and people with families really seem to like it. We've watched every YouTube video we could find and it's the boat for us.

It looks like shipping only requires removal of the radar arch and Bimini. I can handle that.

Our plan is to enjoy nights on the lake and maybe in a year ship it to the coast and explore the intercoastal and eventually get it to the Bahamas.

So, I'm thinking about skipping the survey. Before you guys fall out of your chairs, let me explain...

From what I've read they are kinda like house inspectors. They know a little about everything, specialize in nothing. (I mean no offense)

I'd hire a mechanic to look over the boat for us. We can't see the boat for another week and a half. So I'm thinking about making an offer contingent on a river trial and mechanic inspection.

Any and all opinions, good or bad or awful, will be appreciated.

Thanks guys.
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

First of all, seems like your goal is to have cruiser on Lake Norman, not cruising the inter coastal, correct? If so, this boat may not eat your lunch with fuel bills, but it WILL guzzle the gas. I'd be surprise that you'll get 5 gph cruising at 6 or 7 knots like David said. And I'd bet if you got it up to cruising speed, you'd be looking somewhere around .6 to .8 nmpg in efficiency.

And I'd suspect that this is a plaining hull and you won't do as well as a displacement or semi displacement hull and handling at 6 or 7 knows isn't really good.

However, as a place to hang out on the lake, moving little, it's pretty cheap.

If so, this boat would be fine. The lake is not big enough for serious cruising and those gas guzzling 454s won't eat your lunch.

So, spending a lot of time on the hook or in anchorage, it's a good boat. Long range cruising, it would suck.

As for a survey, that's your choice. But what is the upside on a sight unseen offer? If it's to expedite a absolute steal, then fine. But this doesn't look like a steal. The survey cost is a fairly large percent of the purchase price, but it's the complexity of a boat that makes it worth while. And the surveyor won't find everything that needs attention, but if he finds ONE big one, he would be well worth his dollar.

At least have a good engine and electrical guy look things over.
 
Buying a boat without having a survey done is not a wise decision. Period.
You can rationalise this all you want but chances are you will regret it down the line.
 
why not visit the vessel to ascertain:

-- Does the boat interior smell moldy
-- The ER picture of the bilge pump area does not look healthy. Actually bad
-- I know 454s. Tough, strong, heavy, size precludes good ER maintenance.
-- Very old instruments
-- Does the boat smell gassy
-- Does the AC work
-- Fly bridge Isinglass is cloudy and needs replacement
-- Who owns the vessel?
-- Can clear title Be provided

Unless you can talk on the phone with a caring owner who will share video, pictures and history, be very careful if not paranoid on this vessel sight unseen.
 
Steve91T said:
Sorry guys forgot to add that my insurance does not require a survey.
Click to expand...

First reason to obtain a survey- you fell in love with the boat, and are not objective.

A survey is cheap in the world of boat bucks, and can save you massive dollars- or give you a negotiation point in the purchase process.
 
Steve91T said:
I knew that would get your attention. Allow me to splain....



Very very long story short, we live on lake Norman in Charlotte, NC. We have a 20' Mariah open bow and use it about 3 times a month. We love being on the lake. So does our 3 yr old. She's been boating since she her mom would allow her to go.



So...



We fell in love with a 36' aft cabin Mainship. But we absolutely wouldn't be able to ship it to the coast once a year because the fly bridge would have to come off.



So then we decided on an express cruiser. We looked at a very nice 32' Maxum 3000 SCR. It was nice but we just don't want an express cruiser. But it has a decent living space and will be easy to ship.



Then we found this thing.



Used 1996 Mainship 31 Sedan Bridge, Folly Beach, Sc - 29412 - BoatTrader.com



We have done the worst thing we can possibly when shopping for a boat...fallin in love.



We've read everything we can find on the internet about it and people with families really seem to like it. We've watched every YouTube video we could find and it's the boat for us.



It looks like shipping only requires removal of the radar arch and Bimini. I can handle that.



Our plan is to enjoy nights on the lake and maybe in a year ship it to the coast and explore the intercoastal and eventually get it to the Bahamas.



So, I'm thinking about skipping the survey. Before you guys fall out of your chairs, let me explain...



From what I've read they are kinda like house inspectors. They know a little about everything, specialize in nothing. (I mean no offense)



I'd hire a mechanic to look over the boat for us. We can't see the boat for another week and a half. So I'm thinking about making an offer contingent on a river trial and mechanic inspection.



Any and all opinions, good or bad or awful, will be appreciated.



Thanks guys.

Steve
Click to expand...



I would never purchase without a good qualified survey, no matter how good it looks. It's always good to get an independent perspective. It is cheap money in perspective of the entire transaction.
Don't let it scare you away and any good seller won't object.

I also purchase my last boat with an accepted offer with out seeing the boat. The contract was contingent on my visual inspection prior to surveys and I could withdrawn for no reason if I didn't like it. Just make sure you protect yourself.
Good luck.
 
Thanks for all of the great responses! I guess my idea of using a mechanic was not one of my best. I will definitely get a survey.

I want to clear something up. The reason I want to put an offer in before seeing the boat is to take it off the market. But like I said in my original post, I would make sure it's clear that it's contingent on my visual inpection, the results of the survey and the results of a river test.

Speaking to the broker, who I believe to be a honest man, it's a very clean boat and I would make an offer based the information I have. Obviously I am in no way committing to purchase without the survey and my approval once I see the boat.

Our plans were to ship the boat back to our lake but actually we're thinking about keeping it on the coast. It's only a 3 1/2 hr from our house. So taking little trips up and down the intercoastal would be great. I know the fuel burn will be an issue.

When we get tired of traveling we'd have it shipped back to the lake.

Does that clear up my plan at all?
 
No problem making an offer, subject to survey and sea trial, without seeing the boat. That is house I bought my last sailboat. I toured the boat, did a sea trial, survey and haul out all on the same day after flying my broker and myself down that morning.
 
Have you shopped boats much before? I've found boats that look great in pictures, but have issues that were just out of the shot once you get on board. How long has this one been on the market? Does the layout really meet your needs? Personally, I wouldn't even make an offer without seeing it. If you're that hot for it, get on over and take a look, but it's probably not going anywhere anytime soon.
 
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