First Damage!

Thought you guys might be interested in this.

First Damage! | AtAnchor.com

My dad used to say that things like that were "tuition in the school of hard knocks". Not too much damage but a lesson well learned.


Thanks for sharing your tale with us. I guess I never thought about having to turn on the electronic controls. Hmmmmmm.

Two things impressed me in a positive way. One was your response to dropping the anchor and the fact that Sian did so immediately when you said without hesitation. That's a good team. Second, that afterwards you looked at what happened and carefully analyzed it and I believe did figure out what happened. So, a lesson learned with minimal damage. Also, impressed that even with all that you took evasive actions best as you could to avoid other boats.

Kudos on minimizing damage.

I have had two incidents of uncommanded gear/throttle actions with electronic controls, both scary as heck and pure luck was what prevented damage. Always keep in mind what you will do if the controls will not respond.

From the write up, it is not clear to me what exactly caused the problem? Bug in the software?

Ski, I believe when I went back to the FB and I concurrently pressed active/active and pulled back the gear lever I did not allow the handshake between the upper control and the controller. This resulted in the controller not knowing where to take signals from.
My mech is a Glendinning guy so I will discuss with him when I get back - maybe even try to replicate the issue when tied up to home dock

And yes, engines not responding to the controls when in gear in a marina is not a feeling I ever want to experience again.

Title "First Damage" makes it sound like you're expecting many more.

I'm an electronics engineer, doing industrial controls, remote sensing, and "bullet-proofing" electronics that has to survive lightning.

I would not have a fly-by-wire control system in my boat. I'm on the fence with electronic engines, too.

diver dave said:

I'm an electronics engineer, doing industrial controls, remote sensing, and "bullet-proofing" electronics that has to survive lightning.

I would not have a fly-by-wire control system in my boat. I'm on the fence with electronic engines, too.

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Funny, I am as well and don't want them either. The thought of failure has not allowed me to"upgrade" from my old school cable system.

mbevins said:

Funny, I am as well and don't want them either. The thought of failure has not allowed me to"upgrade" from my old school cable system.

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Wifey B: Sure glad I'm not an engineer as I like electric stuff.

I always put the engines in forward and reverse briefly before we cast off any lines just in case a shift cable is stuck or something else is wrong.

Oh, let me count the ways...

I've had the tower steering work backwards due to a plumbing mixup. My fault.

Others have had the props put on the wrong side. That's exciting!

I've had one case on my boat of an operator grab the SHIFT lever at full cruise speed. He was used to single controls. I had 4 at each station. Now, that is one case where electronic controls will help.

Oh, one more. My friend was taking a 46' sail into a Ft Lauderdale fuel dock. He hit reverse and the prop shaft removed itself from the coupler. Thereby, spearing the gas pump with the bowsprit.

Comodave said:

I always put the engines in forward and reverse briefly before we cast off any lines just in case a shift cable is stuck or something else is wrong.

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Bingo!

diver dave said:

I'm an electronics engineer, doing industrial controls, remote sensing, and "bullet-proofing" electronics that has to survive lightning.

I would not have a fly-by-wire control system in my boat. I'm on the fence with electronic engines, too.

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I'm with Dave. The feds are not to keen to them either after medical patients have been X-Rayed to death by software glitches in digital systems.
My son-in-law works on a ferry that was just repowered with brand new electronic controls. While at normal cruise speed out of nowhere, BOTH transmissions simultaneously shifted to REVERSE!!! A couple drops of saltwater got into a control board that shifted control location.

OK guys, enough of the horror stories, we ain't home yet!

HW; I just finished a control room design for Prarie Island nuke. Was yours Crystal river?

Right here in NJ

HW; sorry, the W FL hailing port threw me off. Yes, Menzies, you have created a monster here.

Snapped a transmission cable last year shortly after we bought her, so even wired systems can fail.

Sigh!

menzies said:

Sigh!

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Just being a devil's advocate, Menzies, but would all that have been avoided if you had not gone up to the flybridge to manoeuvre, but just stayed more in touch with things right there in your lovely raised pilothouse..? The place all the controls default to I assume..? Just sayin'..?

Although having the need to wait briefly for important stuff to talk to each other was a good thing to find out. But the time to find it out coulda been better, for sure.

I remember the days way back when we had a boat with upper and lower helms, but even though manual, you had to consciously use a lever of some sort to pass control from lower helm to upper & back, and even then I managed to screw up one time and arrived at a helm, can't remember whether it was upper or lower now, and could not get control without zooming back to the other to move that lever. I give thanks our present boat, being even older, has absolutely simple, always linked, upper and lower controls, so what one does at one helm is duplicated at the other. Works for me. But I always manoeuvre from the lower helm to be closer to the centre of things, including the anchor switch, (the upper one has no chain counter), better depth sounder, and to be able to leap out to help docking, etc. And heck. I don't even have a raised pilothouse. To me, they make the flybridge redundant for most occasions, except great weather and wildlife spotting. But that's just me, I guess.

A great story. Yes, a lesson learned that we all must learn.

Just recently I had the damage repaired to my swim platform that I had caused on the second day we had Dauntless.
I did not repair the minor damage (like yours) because it served as a reminder for me.

Thanks for sharing.
Richard on Dauntless

Peter B said:

...
I remember the days way back when we had a boat with upper and lower helms, but even though manual, you had to consciously use a lever of some sort to pass control from lower helm to upper & back, and even then I managed to screw up one time and arrived at a helm, can't remember whether it was upper or lower now, and could not get control without zooming back to the other to move that lever. I give thanks our present boat, being even older, has absolutely simple, always linked, upper and lower controls, so what one does at one helm is duplicated at the other. Works for me. But I always manoeuvre from the lower helm to be closer to the centre of things, including the anchor switch, (the upper one has no chain counter), better depth sounder, and to be able to leap out to help docking, etc. And heck. I don't even have a raised pilothouse. To me, they make the flybridge redundant for most occasions, except great weather and wildlife spotting. But that's just me, I guess.

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I have only driven the boat from up top on two occasions, eons ago. And it ended with me having trouble with the cable control, to a point where I thought neither helm was connected.

I like being close to the action. Many times I've held a line a the pilot house door as I maneuvered the boat.

Am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't have to 'sync' our engine controls before we use them? This would never pass muster in aviation circles.

Why is this 'sync' step necessary?

FlyWright said:

Am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't have to 'sync' our engine controls before we use them? This would never pass muster in aviation circles.

Why is this 'sync' step necessary?

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It's 'cause they've all gone digical, Al...

FlyWright said:

Am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't have to 'sync' our engine controls before we use them? This would never pass muster in aviation circles.

Why is this 'sync' step necessary?

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I'm on the same page, and would prefer to not have electronic controls. But there was no choice for the 400 Mainship I bought. One time the warm light started to blink, during the control change, and I had no control at either station, which could have been exciting. Turning it off then back on fixed it.

However, cables fail, too.

I never get in a hurried departure.
Start Engines
Bump both engines in gear
Bump bow thruster
Confirm no debris in props
Happy departure

I have heard of folks with floating lines or chunks of tree branches in their props while at the marina. Only to find out after casting off.
Try your props before you cast off.

I like having mechanical feedback for boat controls, I can keep in touch then with how the boat is responding.

Not just boats but cars are heading to drive by wire, so when you hit the brake, your not actually moving the master cylinder piston, and when you turn the steering wheel your not actually turning the mechanical gear box, just system sensors.

To actually have a self driving car, those type systems have to work flawlessly.
And history tells us nothing ever works as designed all the time.
Imagine for a car if the system could be hacked or the software fails to understand the situation.

Peter, I prefer the FB due to visibility. I have a solid wall behind me in the PH. See photo in article of having boats in front and behind. I can judge distances between us much better from up there.

There have been fly-by-wire systems at both pilots stations for years in planes. There's no need to 'sync' the controls before transferring control from one side to the other.

I'm not sure why both boat stations cannot be active with one coasting in standby while the other is working, then switch roles automatically when the other knobs are moved. My mechanical controls always work at the same time...

FlyWright said:

There have been fly-by-wire systems at both pilots stations for years in planes. There's no need to 'sync' the controls before transferring control from one side to the other.

I'm not sure why both boat stations cannot be active with one coasting in standby while the other is working, then switch roles automatically when the other knobs are moved. My mechanical controls always work at the same time...

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I believe that is a safety issue. What if a kid grabbed the unused controls, or a guest tried them for "feel?"