42' propane locker ideas?

I'm considering changing the the range over to propane and installing a locker. Does anyone have any ideas or pictures of locker installations on a 42 LRC? (preferably, ones that have flown through a survey)

Thanks

Happy Boating!

I'm sure somebody must have converted one, but I've never seen it. I've only seen electric.

Just thinking about it, you would want the tank on the aft deck or flybridge, but how to route the line? Going through the engine room is a bad idea, alternators, starters and APU aren't ignition protected. Plus the bulkheads and cabin walls, there is no space, they're solid.

Only way I can see is an exposed hose run up the Port side interior wall and through the overhead to the flybridge. Hide the hose with a decorative teak / mahogany cover. Then build a ventilated box on the port side lip of the flybridge platform to hide the tank. I suppose it depends on you flybridge seating configuration as well.

Maybe another Californian owner has an idea?

Playin Hooky said:

I'm considering changing the the range over to propane and installing a locker. Does anyone have any ideas or pictures of locker installations on a 42 LRC? (preferably, ones that have flown through a survey)

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My propane storage hasn't been through a survey but I feel it would pass. I only have a barbecue so I use the small bottles. The bottom drawer in the photo holds 4 canisters and is vented to the cockpit floor via holes in the drawer bottom. The photos show the bottom drawer removed and the opening to the cockpit floor.

I am sure you already have lots of stuff going between the saloon and the flybridge, hidden behind the window mullions. If, like mine, your mullions have a teak cover that is screwed on, open it up and see how much extra room there is for another 1/2" diameter line. Then all you need to do is find a suitable route from the bottom of the window mullion to your galley stove, and build in a nice Propane locker under the upper dash. All the safety considerations apply, like not allowing any leaking propane to exit the drain and find its way down to an open window in the saloon below.
In past threads there were some commercially available, ready made lockers. Look at those to see if one would fit your available space. If not, you are on for building one that will do the job. Not rocket science, but still lots of work.

I'll take a look. I'm concerned about venting the locker correctly. Thanks for the ideas

I wouldn't venture casually into this conversion. A thorough understanding of the ABYC Propane Installation requirements is in order for a job of this scope and importance. They are quite extensive.

Playin Hooky said:

I'll take a look. I'm concerned about venting the locker correctly. Thanks for the ideas

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I would probably spend the money on a commercially made propane locker. I would also make sure I I had a good understanding of the ABYC propane installation requirements and that everything in the installation was ABYC approved for propane.


Running the propane line is pretty simple. The rest, not so much.

I installed a propane fireplace in my trawler a few years ago. Fireboy-xintex have lots of info and good systems available. Part of your system should include gas and CO sniffers.
The sniffers are connected to a solenoid at the tank which stops the flow of propane at the source if gas or CO levels are unsafe. The system also provides audible and visible alarms if levels are exceeded.
When you purchase the gas line fittings, make sure they are quality forged brass, and not the "cheap big box" stuff. This year my alarms were activated upon the fall start up. I leak checked the system and found a crack fitting, phew...............

HI Hooky,

Another 42 LRC on my dock did this. He just mounted a large propane tank on the flybridge port side. He ran the hose straight down, along the interior wall. There is plenty of ventilation for the tank. I'm jealous, because I hate the electric stove. Please post pictures, as I'm sure some of us might copy your project.

Cheers, Bill

This boat came with a propane Princess stove and oven but the propane tank was behind a door in the cockpit console rather than in a top loading sealed box. The pre-purchase surveyor had a hissy (which led to similar behavior by my DW) so I took the tank off the boat but left all the regulators and hoses in place while I decide whether to spend very big bucks on a proper locker or replace the whole system with an electric stove and oven. There is no reasonable explanation as to why the fiberglass boxes from Trident, etc. are so insanely high. It is a box with a couple of features that do not add up to $750-$1,000 in my opinion. I asked Nordic Tug for a price of one that they make for new boats and it was $1500. So I am still in limbo for a solution. DW fears propane so I know we would never use the stove and oven if it were a proper installation. It would be a giant hassle to change over to electric not only because of the swap out but then I would have a propane stove to sell which would be another hassle.

Since she will not use either version stove I am leaning toward getting a legal propane box for the next owner...when necessary. We can easily live with a grill, electric skillet and microwave.

Thanks for the input, Guys. I'm going to study the rules and hopefully find a safe spot for the locker on the flybridge. The 42' LRC has numerous doors and windows in the saloon. I'll post some pictures if I can get it figured out.

P Hooky, our 42 LRC came with a vented fiberglass locker mounted on the portside of the FB bench seat. The line exits the back of the locker, straight into the hollow of the FB structure. It continues down through the FB chase into the ER, aft through the ER and up into the stove cavity.

We do have a sniffer that will lock out the solenoid until satisfied. I've never smelled propane in the ER (thankfully) but always, after a night on the hook, have to purge the ER of what I suspect is battery off gassing to satisfy the sniffer.

The surveyor did not raise any issues with the installation. I'll snap a pic of the locker this weekend.

Thanks, Eric. Some pictures would be appreciated. My boat has been fitted with a radar arch which takes up some of the flybridge room, but I'm looking at lockers and think I've found a spot.

I have thought of converting to propane (Wifey is against the idea) but I cannot think of a place for the tank without it looking ugly. Tempted to look at a satellite dish enclosure to hide a tank up on my hardtop. To my knowledge, the tank does not need to be in an approved enclosure if mounted outside the boat so this has potential.

foggysail said:

I have thought of converting to propane (Wifey is against the idea) but I cannot think of a place for the tank without it looking ugly. Tempted to look at a satellite dish enclosure to hide a tank up on my hardtop. To my knowledge, the tank does not need to be in an approved enclosure if mounted outside the boat so this has potential.

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Even if mounted outside of a boat it has to follow.
+ certain distance from air intake o to avoid a leak to find its way in
+ in place or enclosure that ensure any leak will not find its way to a window.
+ if in an enclosure the enclosure must open by the top, and have a discharge to direct overboard and the size of the discharge must match a ratio of the volume of the enclosure

I recommend you to read ABYC recommendation about propane installation.

L.

Lou_tribal said:

Even if mounted outside of a boat it has to follow.
+ certain distance from air intake o to avoid a leak to find its way in
+ in place or enclosure that ensure any leak will not find its way to a window.
+ if in an enclosure the enclosure must open by the top, and have a discharge to direct overboard and the size of the discharge must match a ratio of the volume of the enclosure

I recommend you to read ABYC recommendation about propane installation. Most likely, if I advance this idea in the future, my radar arch might suffice for this application

L.

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Thanks Lou for your recommendation. Propane is just an idea at this time. I used to have a pair of 6# aluminum cylinders with solenoids mounted into an approved container on my old sailboat. But propane is just an idea for my Silverton as I type but of course nothing wrong with coming up with ideas.

Now as to ABYC! They hold no official status, their propane recommendations are just recommendations unless the boat is used for hire in which case their propane recommendations become requirements.

You did mention requirements pertaining to enclosures. This would not apply in my approach because a satellite enclosure .....if you want to call it such .... would be in essence a fence, a wall to hide the sitting tank. So any guidelines that I would search out would be for exposed, non enclosed tanks. If I advance this idea, my radar arch might suffice for a mounting location.

foggysail said:

Thanks Lou for your recommendation. Propane is just an idea at this time. I used to have a pair of 6# aluminum cylinders with solenoids mounted into an approved container on my old sailboat. But propane is just an idea for my Silverton as I type but of course nothing wrong with coming up with ideas.

Now as to ABYC! They hold no official status, their propane recommendations are just recommendations unless the boat is used for hire in which case their propane recommendations become requirements.

You did mention requirements pertaining to enclosures. This would not apply in my approach because a satellite enclosure .....if you want to call it such .... would be in essence a fence, a wall to hide the sitting tank. So any guidelines that I would search out would be for exposed, non enclosed tanks. If I advance this idea, my radar arch might suffice for a mounting location.

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Foggysail,
You are right ABYC are recommendations not requirements but I must admit most of them make perfect sense in terms of security. What I meant is that in any case, with or without enclosure some things needs to be taken care of in term of security. Now I am not an expert but I did the exercise recently as I am in the process of installing propane aboard. I had trouble to find a correct place to put the tank(s) so they are not in the way, securely stored, placed conveniently in term of routing the pipes and present no danger in case of leak. Finally I will put them under a bench on my aft deck without any enclosure (at least for now) as I can hide the pipes under the bench, and in case of leak the propane will naturally flow overboard on the swim platform where there is no opening that could be a treat.

L.

Lou--

I am not trying to "push against the grain" here. I also try my best to follow ABYC as much as possible. I have made slight deviations of course such as putting my battery fuses into the positive lead rather than into the negative. But all my batteries are fused!

You appear to be doing things the right way and good for you. If I go the propane route, I also will do things in a manner that is safe. The only home fires I enjoy are in my fire place

P-H, I finally have the Pics. The boat came with full canvas for the FB and had a vent hose that day lighted under the port side canvas. Whoever mounted the locker let the latch set the location/distance aft. There is room to move it 8-10" further aft if the latch is repositioned to one end. Hope this helps.

Here is a copy of the the ABYC A-1 standard requirements for propane lockers. I am a member of ABYC and I keep a copy of the standards on my computer. I also was the Technical VP of ABYC so am glad to help anyone here with any ABYC related questions.
1.8 LPG LOCKERS
1.8.1
Lockers used to contain LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, regulating equipment and safety devices shall be designed to minimize the likelihood of use as a gear storage locker and shall be

1.8.1.1 vapor tight to the hull interior, and

1.8.1.2 located above the waterline, and

1.8.1.3 constructed of, or lined with, corrosion resistant materials, and

1.8.1.4 shall open only from the top with a gasketed cover that shall latch tightly, and

1.8.1.5 shall be capable of being quickly and conveniently opened without tools.

1.8.2 Installation
1.8.2.1 LPG lockers shall be installed so that the locker opens only directly to the outside atmosphere, and

1.8.2.2 if a LPG locker is installed inside a boat locker, the LPG locker shall be located as high and as close to the boat locker’s opening as possible in order to comply with A-1.8.2.1.

1.8.3
When means of access to the LPG equipment locker or housing is open, the cylinder valves shall be capable of being conveniently and quickly operated, and the system pressure gauge dials shall be fully visible.

1.8.4
Lockers shall be vented at the bottom by a dedicated vent, with a minimum diameter of any component in the vent system that shall be not less than 1/2 inch (12.7mm) inside diameter.

1.8.5
Locker vents shall be led outboard, without pockets, through the hull to a point lower than the locker bottom and above the waterline with the boat in the static floating position.

NOTE: See ABYC H-27 Seacocks, Thru-Hull Connections and Drain Plugs for requirements for seacocks.

1.8.6
Locker vent openings shall be located at least 20 inches (508 mm) from any hull opening to the boat interior.

1.8.7
LPG lockers shall not be used for storage of any equipment other than LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, regulating equipment, and LPG safety devices. See A-1.8.1.

1.8.8
Storage provisions for unconnected reserve cylinders, filled or empty, shall be the same as for the cylinder

Thanks for posting the ABYC std requirements. I'll have to measure the vent but I think its only 3/8".

Restitution has a three burner Kenyon Marine propane stove. The tanks are mounted one each under each side of the flybridge. The tanks sit in their own plywood receptical boxes that are a little more than a foot high. Only the starboard side is plumbed. The port side is a spare tank. A one piece solid line runs down the chase at the helm and is routed through the engine room, up into the kitchen counter and then to the stove. I assumed until now that this was stock?

By "one piece solid line" are you speaking of a copper line? Or is it one continuous length of hose?

One continuous length of copper line.

Tadhana,

Thanks for posting that.
When we installed our propane stove and my bbq grill, we followed those rules, except on the KK the box is the stbd seat on the fly bridge. 3 tanks fit inside, with the pressure gauge and the solenoid, but it has not rubber seal. Not sure I see the point in that anyway.

The box is vented at the bottom and runs off the FB and outboard. The additional hose for the bbq runs along the edge of the FB and down to the aft deck.

I know it sounds simple, put pour water in your propane locker and see where it goes. Propane will pretty follow the same path. It should not come into the boat at any place.

I always keep the propane switch for the solenoid OFF. IT's only on when we are on the boat, thus if a leak developed in the line into the Princess stove, we would know immediately. Pretty much the same to the bbq, but it should go out the scuppers.

Sam said:

One continuous length of copper line.

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Thanks for clarifying. The reason for my question is that a copper line may have a flexible connection at the back of the stove. In a properly installed LPG system, the risks of leaks is low, but each fitting and joint is a possible leak. But I am sure that your installation has been functioning well since the boat was built.

Here are some photos of the solid copper propane line that runs from the propane stove, down under the cabinetry into the ceiling of the engine room, and thru the bulkhead into the chase to the flybridge. Once on the flybridge, the copper line goes to a 5 gallon propane tank that has its home in a plywood box mounted to the floor on the Starboard corner under the dash. The port corner of the flybridge has a spare 5 gallon propane tank that is also in its respective plywood box (but not plumbed).