12 hour flight advise

I’ve never done more than 8 hours nonstop so, I’d appreciate some tips on before, during and after flight to combat jet lag.

12 hours trans Pacific.
If it matters, depart Vancouver 0200 local, arrive Taipei 0500 local, next day.
10 days on the ground.
Depart Taipei 2300 local, arrive Vancouver 1900 local, same day.

Going over, sleep on the flight. You have enough time, provided you can get comfortable, to get a good sleep and be awake when you arrive in the AM. If possible, business class makes all the difference since you get something that somewhat resembles a bed.

On arrival, operate on local time. Make yourself stay up until more or less normal local bed time, then sleep until normal local wake time. I find that melatonin (over the counter) really helps you sleep when you want to where your internal clock is otherwise prone to wake you up.

On return, sleep, but not as much, recognizing that you will arrive home near local bed time, and will want to get back on a local sleep schedule. Once again Melatonin will go a long way to get you back on the local sleep schedule. I usually take melatonin for 2-3 days to get myself on a local schedule.

Thanks Peter, all good points and while business class would be nice, I have at least moved up 1 notch from economy.

I've been getting lots of conflicting advice as far as drugs, food and drink, particularly in the days before. Thought maybe with a lot of long haulers here I might get at least some consensus.

I'm not big on pills and Gravol seems to be a pretty widely used, low key sleep aid.

twistedtree said:

Going over, sleep on the flight. You have enough time, provided you can get comfortable, to get a good sleep and be awake when you arrive in the AM....

On arrival, operate on local time. Make yourself stay up until more or less normal local bed time, then sleep until normal local wake time...
.

Click to expand...

Agree

If they serve a meal on the way over I usually eat (light) and avoid any caffeine. I also take a mild sleep aid to help get a decent rest...something like AlevePM or AdvilPM seems to work for me.

You Definitely want to get on local time ASAP both ways - resist any urge to catch a nap - force staying up to get on local time is a big key. Better to go to bed a little early going over than napping.

Skip the flight, use Star Treks transporter....

My 67 year old friend just had a stroke right after a flight back from Australia, his advice was to get up and move around as much as possible.

Probably depending on age, conditioning, circulation problems and seating, you have to see which is better for you.

Me, I might cat nap but would get up every couple hours for a 15 minute walk/stretch.

psneeld said:

My 67 year old friend just had a stroke right after a flight back from Australia, his advice was to get up and move around as much as possible.

Click to expand...

Agree. Our employer's travel training suggested standing often, walking a btt (as much as might be practical), and periodic light stretching exercises (again, as much as practical). Mostly exercising in place, but also any other movement you can incorporate. Blood circulation is good!

All that about adapting to local time as quickly as possible is right on, too.

-Chris

Greetings,
You can buy elastic type socks that are supposed to minimize blood pooling in the legs (deep vein thrombosis I think it's called).

RT Firefly said:

You can buy elastic type socks that are supposed to minimize blood pooling in the legs (deep vein thrombosis I think it's called).

Click to expand...

I believe one has to be predisposed to DVT for it to be an issue. Also seems like use of flight socks has been pretty much debunked. Since they need to flex to force the blood back up the legs, that only occurs during exercise. Walking and in seat exercises are key. As is hydration.

I've been told to double or triple water intake in the days leading up to a long flight like this, eat trail mix or granola bars etc. on the flight. Someone said dried bananas but it like cardboard much better.

Was hoping the flight crews on here could toss out some tips. No Sunnwing crews though, thank you very much.

One thing catches you up on time zone changes, the other directly affects circulation...I would go with what could kill me whether I know whether I am susceptible or not.

I don't medicate. I agree that sucking it up and adapting to the time zone makes it easier. I just pretend I'm working a night shift.

I do try to get exit row seats. On some planes (most Airbuses, and 787) you get lots of room to get up a stretch in the exit row.

PS I was very impressed with the noticable increased comfort of a 787 on a recent flight. Lower cabin altitude (higher pressure) and higher cabin humidity made for a much more comfortable flight. Hope you got one of those over or return. I may make future travel arrangements based on the 787.

I have done a lot of long haul, Australia to North America or Europe. I avoid all drugs (sleep aid, melatonin) but do have a glass of wine with the meal. In other words, keep everything as normal as you do at home.

Walking around isn't really practical - focus on in-seat exercises. Watch a movie or two, that really helps the time fly by. Sleep as much as you can while the cabin lights are dimmed. It isn't always easy, invariably there is someone who is turning their overhead light on or off quite a lot.

On arrival try to get some exercise - walk around some shopping malls or a few blocks along the streets. Many of my flights had multiple legs and ended up about 24 hours or so door to hotel. I did Brisbane-LA-Toronto quite a few times in early March for a conference. That is a long way. Seldom above zero outside on arrival as well. The routine there was stay at the Sheraton, use 'The Path' to get close to the Hard Rock Cafe, have a big pile of Ribs and a few beers for dinner and then wander the Path for a while. Usually woke up for breakfast in good shape! Its the third night that's the most difficult to sleep right through, definitely stay up reasonably late on that one.

Northern Spy; said:

I just pretend I'm working a night shift.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of that. I put in a lot of nights and even double shifts in the steam plant in Powell River. Noisier than a jet and we even learned to sleep standing up. No time zones though.

Northern Spy; said:

I do try to get exit row seats. On some planes (most Airbuses, and 787) you get lots of room to get up a stretch in the exit row.

Click to expand...

I got decent seats and might even do better when they unblock a bunch.

Northern Spy; said:

I was very impressed with the noticable increased comfort of a 787...Hope you got one of those over or return.

Click to expand...

747-400. There were 787s with other airlines but they did a milk run and it would have been 30 or more hours.

Insequent; said:

I have done a lot of long haul...keep everything as normal as you do at home. Walking around isn't really practical - focus on in-seat exercises. Watch a movie or two, that really helps the time fly by. Sleep as much as you can while the cabin lights are dimmed.

Click to expand...

Thanks Brian. I am normally an easy to sleep guy and think leaving at 2am and arriving at 5am should work in my favour. I have a bunch of movies that will probably help me sleep. Got a blindfold and plugs too. I'll be busy when I get there and it will be 30 degrees so I'll need some decent sleep on the plane.

I travel a lot, and always have had trouble sleeping on the planes and then adjusting to the time zone change.
My best "med" so far is a delicacy from Colorado, a chocolate with a slightly earthy flavor, Oh, are we there already?

Ya wanna know the secret of successful air travel? After you get where you're going, ya take off your shoes and socks. Then ya walk around on the rug barefoot and make fists with your toes.

There's lots of ways to make long travel tolerable, but still takes effort. I used to travel Chicago Hong Kong twice a month as a crew member. My mantra was to go take the first sleep break tired (departed around 2pm local) and it was like getting up early for the last half of the trip. At Hong Kong I'd relax, light dinner and go to bed Hong Kong time around 10 to 11pm. Wake up when rested.

Water is your friend, drink at least a few quarts. No alcohol, and don't eat heavy. Blinders and ear plugs help a lot. And if your seat doesn't recline a lot or no pillows provided, bring your own.

And absolutely exercise a bit. You don't have to walk around, but do get up and stretch and work the muscles a bit. Maybe grab a flight attendant for a dance.

Know how your circadian clock works. Some folks are early birds (I am) and some at night owls. Try to adjust you schedule to match. I find it MUCH easier to get up early than to stay up late.

I suspect your trip is not a whole lot different than mine, except your departure time at 2 am is brutally early, and I'd certainly spend the previous day or two getting up really early, or staying up really late to adjust.

Traveling west (to the east) is much easier than traveling to Europe for some reason.

On these long international trips, unless you spend time to adjust, I'd not make any serious financial decisions nor operate a chain saw.

From Australia to Europe is around 22 hours flying time, plus at least one stopover to change planes or refuel/service the aircraft. So we are used to it, first leg, using an Asian based carrier is 8-9 hours,second around 13 hours.
Don`t over eat, or drink lots of alcohol. Stay hydrated, ask for water etc if not offered regularly. Try to sleep, sometimes I just doze, I`m never sure. Walking around is not a real option, except at the refuel/change planes stop. If you can take a shower at the stopover do. Don`t be tempted to eat a big meal on the second flight if you ate not long ago on the last one.
I`m past long haul in economy/coach, extending the seat flat and going to sleep works best. Use an eye mask and earplugs, noise cancelling headphones if possible. I shop hard for good pricing up the front, there are deals, lots of competition on international flights. And I like the 787,new quiet, better "air", space etc.

I second what seevee says - hydration and disposable foam ear plugs. The air is very dry, and the noise is remarkably fatiguing. Ear plugs also tend to keep the chatty folks at bay, and they take the edge off any screaming children.

Safe Travels

Minimal alcohol. Acclimatize yourself to local time..stay awake till local bed time.

Fly business class so you can lay flat and sleep. Avoid alcohol and stay hydrated. Set your watch to the new time zone as soon as you take off. Anticipate you will be rummy the first day of arrival and plan a light schedule. Bring earplugs.

12 hours is not too bad. Get above 16 hours and it gets a little unpleasant unless you can sleep which I don't do well on the plane. The flight from NY to Johannesburg is brutal, around 18 hours depending. I do get up and walk around as frequently as possible, but have back and butt issues that cannot take the sit without walking and stretching. Stay hydrated, not to much strong drink. I take slippers so I can get out of my shoes but still have something on my feet and not stink up the whole airplane! I once got off a long flight and in the security line for the next one, we had to take off our shoes and a couple of flight attendants nearby nearly swooned from the odor! ASAP I went to the nearest mens room, changed socks and thru the offending odiferous ones in the trash bin! Long flights just suck really, no way around it. Either that or never go anywhere.

psneeld said:

My 67 year old friend just had a stroke right after a flight back from Australia, his advice was to get up and move around as much as possible.

Probably depending on age, conditioning, circulation problems and seating, you have to see which is better for you.

Me, I might cat nap but would get up every couple hours for a 15 minute walk/stretch.

Click to expand...

I agree, and as a medic I would also say that worrying about jet lag should really be the least of your worries, as deep vein thrombosis is the major risk of flights that length.
Your comment here...

"I believe one has to be predisposed to DVT for it to be an issue. Also seems like use of flight socks has been pretty much debunked. Since they need to flex to force the blood back up the legs, that only occurs during exercise. Walking and in seat exercises are key. As is hydration."

...is not correct. Although keeping well hydrated, (which at least guarantees trips to the loo occasionally), and getting up and walking does activate the muscle pump, the compression from the stockings makes it much more effective and helps reduce the risk while sleeping. So, in addition to psn's advice above you should have yourself fitted with some anti-DVT stockettes (up to knee height and snug, based on shoe size - chemists usually stock them), to compress the veins in the lower legs where the clots usually form. They are quite comfortable if tight enough but not too tight.

Peter B said:

I agree, and as a medic I would also say that worrying about jet lag should really be the least of your worries, as deep vein thrombosis is the major risk of flights that length.
Your comment here...

"I believe one has to be predisposed to DVT for it to be an issue. Also seems like use of flight socks has been pretty much debunked. Since they need to flex to force the blood back up the legs, that only occurs during exercise. Walking and in seat exercises are key. As is hydration."

...is not correct. Although keeping well hydrated, (which at least guarantees trips to the loo occasionally), and getting up and walking does activate the muscle pump, the compression from the stockings makes it much more effective and helps reduce the risk while sleeping. So, in addition to psn's advice above you should have yourself fitted with some anti-DVT stockettes (up to knee height and snug, based on shoe size - chemists usually stock them), to compress the veins in the lower legs where the clots usually form. They are quite comfortable if tight enough but not too tight.

Click to expand...

I am very glad to see Peter weigh in on this.

When I had to fly a lot (always coach) I would make sure that I would get up and walk up and down the isle as much as possible. The other thing I would do is take an aspirin before the flight (325mg). The aspirin was recommended to me by my MD.

That quote about being predisposed to DVD wasn't mine....not sure if it was directed back at the OP or not.

Peter B; said:

I agree, and as a medic I would also say that worrying about jet lag should really be the least of your worries, as deep vein thrombosis is the major risk of flights that length.

Click to expand...

Peter, with respect, I originally asked for tips to “combat jet lag.” I didn’t say it was the only concern I had, let alone the major one.

The topic of DVT arose from a vague comment about “elastic type socks.”

Your comment to be fitted with some anti-DVT stockettes by someone who knows what they are doing is the best DVT “prevention” advice. To do otherwise is comparable to buying a Walmart bilge pump for a 76 Nordhavn. In other words, do it right or not at all because "I have heard" there are also “studies” showing that the wrong stocking may have the opposite affect from the intended one.

Everything else said here on DVT is anecdotal and I believe there is scant evidence of compression stockings, aspirin and non-window seats being gospel. In this regard, everyone should work with their own medical professional.

Now, you got any tips on combatting jet lag?

Jet Lag

Oddly, I`m much more jet lagged at the end of the return trip than the trip over. I`ve often wondered if this due to holiday anticipation/enjoyment,vs return to the humdrum of normal life after "the high life" of vacationing.
So I`ll do 22 hours straight, with one stop of variable period, going to Europe, and maybe have a 2 day stopover at the refuel/change on the way home. That seems to help. Nothing reduces the number of time zones crossed, whatever I do, but I do change time to arrival time,either final or the time of the brief stopover, and start "living" to that time.
Do stay hydrated. Good airlines circulate with drinks in all classes, they know about DVT, don`t want to get blamed for it, and I for one appreciate Peter`s well intended advice about avoiding it.
Returning, I find myself habituated to destination time, for waking, sleeping, eating etc. Takes about a week to readjust. Don`t yield to it,adopt normal home timing, that helps. If your flight home arrives evening, by going straight to bed, you start normal routine. Lauda used to do that, what a loss when Austrian took over and later ceased service altogether. When Nicki was Captain,the plane always went faster.

Peter B said:

I agree, and as a medic I would also say that worrying about jet lag should really be the least of your worries, as deep vein thrombosis is the major risk of flights that length.
Your comment here...

"I believe one has to be predisposed to DVT for it to be an issue. Also seems like use of flight socks has been pretty much debunked. Since they need to flex to force the blood back up the legs, that only occurs during exercise. Walking and in seat exercises are key. As is hydration."

...is not correct. Although keeping well hydrated, (which at least guarantees trips to the loo occasionally), and getting up and walking does activate the muscle pump, the compression from the stockings makes it much more effective and helps reduce the risk while sleeping. So, in addition to psn's advice above you should have yourself fitted with some anti-DVT stockettes (up to knee height and snug, based on shoe size - chemists usually stock them), to compress the veins in the lower legs where the clots usually form. They are quite comfortable if tight enough but not too tight.

Click to expand...

Bonsoir Pierre. You already know that I often travel by plane mostly 7 to 12 hours long direct flights, so can you give me your impression about this :
Before all long flights just after boarding, under my family physician's and pharmacist's recommendation (you know who I am talking about) I inject myself an anticoagulant (e.g. Calciparine or similar, I have no idea of the dosage). I should specify that I don't have any health issue.
Merci par avance.

BruceK; said:

So I`ll do 22 hours straight, with one stop of variableperiod, going to Europe, and maybe have a 2 day stopover at the refuel/changeon the way home. That seems to help.

Click to expand...

I wondered about that as this trip could have been done over 30 or more hours, with a layover in Hong Kong, Singapore or Soule. Right or wrong thinking, I just wanted to get it over with, so 12 hrs nonstop.

BruceK; said:

I for one appreciate Peter`s well intended advice about avoiding it.

Click to expand...

I do as well, as far as doing it right and being properly fitted. I am very familiar with DVT and PE so, am particular about (any) medical advice via social media.

Mr.Hays is a Medic as well, but I suspect his advice on preventing prostate cancer could be a bit cockeyed.

dhays said:

(...) The other thing I would do is take an aspirin before the flight (325mg). The aspirin was recommended to me by my MD.

Click to expand...

On 05/02/2014 the U.S. Food & Drug Administration clarified its position on taking aspirin if you haven’t had a heart attack, concluding that the risks outweigh the benefits.

On its excellent website, which we cannot hold it up to the old wives tale/urban legend crap, the FDA now says :

"FDA has concluded that the data do not support the use of aspirin as a preventive medication by people who have not had a heart attack, stroke or cardiovascular problems, a use that is called 'primary prevention.' In such people, the benefit has not been established but risks — such as dangerous bleeding into the brain or stomach — are still present."