Poll: Insurance

This has been a recent topic so thought a poll where everyone could post anonymously might be interesting.

Most lenders require comprehensive. Most transient marinas require liability. My peace of mind requires both. Stuff happens.

Just in case I preferred to be covered. Moreover my insurance will cover towing fees if I requires any which is great peace of mind for me.

In Australia you will be refused to use a marina either for overnight and or permanent use without full comprehensive insurance and so it should be .

Currently with my new boat I have an Actual Cash Value policy with BoatUS that carries the required amount of liability for the marina I stay at. It was a quick and fairly easy quote to get that allowed liveaboards. Most insurances won't cover liveaboards from what I found so i'd need a broker to dig something up for me. . .might do that in a year when I'm up for renewal and have had time to find some "yacht coverage".

My sailboat is under a liability only policy. Never got around to it since I never got it surveyed. The couple times I looked, they required one since it was so old. Now, seven years later, the boats even older and not worth it in my eyes. The insurance is there to basically clean up the mess if something bad happens.

I would like to see laws in place requiring proof of liability insurance before a boat could be registered or documented. As it is now, I pay a fee for "uninsured boater" coverage.


I have both boat and liability coverage. The liability coverage is one million dollars with my umbrella policy.

Damage plus liability cover is the norm, and liability of $10m is common. Further, in Queensland the following regulation applies:

1. All recreational ships more than 15m but less than 35m in length must have an insurance policy that provides A$250,000 for pollution clean up and A$10,000,000 for salvage and wreck removal.

Shrew said:

Most lenders require comprehensive. Most transient marinas require liability. My peace of mind requires both. Stuff happens.

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My home marina requires proof of liability insurance and they are listed on the policy.

I have never been asked for proof of insurance as a transient.

I have full coverage for the entire west coast out to 60nm in the summer and 20nm in the winter.....

WesK said:

My home marina requires proof of liability insurance and they are listed on the policy.

I have never been asked for proof of insurance as a transient.

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You are correct. I included transient and should not have. With my luck, If I said "marina", as opposed to 'seasonal contract', someone would have corrected me that an overnight stay at they're favorite transient marina didn't require it as well.

I appreciate the correction.

I have comprehensive coverage out to 250 nm offshore anywhere in Australia, $10 million liability, and zero deductible on claims inside home marina.

Only one marina I've visited has asked for liability insurance. None of the other, including my home marina, have asked about insurance.

Shrew said:

You are correct. I included transient and should not have. With my luck, If I said "marina", as opposed to 'seasonal contract', someone would have corrected me that an overnight stay at they're favorite transient marina didn't require it as well.

I appreciate the correction.

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I might have had to sign that I had insurance at a transient marina but I've never been asked to show proof. I couldn't, the papers are at home.

My home marina is in my backyard... I still have full coverage insurance.

WesK said:

I might have had to sign that I had insurance at a transient marina but I've never been asked to show proof. I couldn't, the papers are at home.

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That's a mistake, leastwise here. Even for a day's docking, some marinas, one example: Berkeley wants proof of sufficient insurance in addition to proof of current documentation/registration as well as prepaid fees since no one there accepts payment during a weekend or holiday. My home marina (Vallejo) requires annual proof of insurance as well as registration/documentation and is closed on weekends so guests aren't welcome unless they can visit during the business week to make arrangements.

One of the boats in my marina was purchased for 7 million dollars. Who here has enough liability coverage to pay for that if their boat destroyed it (like from fire, for instance)?

I don't.

Group9 said:

One of the boats in my marina was purchased for 7 million dollars. Who here has enough liability coverage to pay for that if their boat destroyed it (like from fire, for instance)?

I don't.

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My liability insurance is $500,000 on the boat policy. Then my personal umbrella policy raises all liability coverage on the boat policy to $3M. Cost less than $100 to add my boat to my umbrella policy. Pretty much a no brainer.

Probably not to many $7M boats I can sink with my boat.

Ted

Full for the west coast coverage out to 25nm. I don't have the policy in front of me, however, if I remember correctly, I have a 3mil umbrella.

Agreed value on both boats with normal liability. The marina I use is used by The Hinckley Company for commissioning their new builds so there is always at least one million plus dollar boat there. During the summer there is always at least one and often several 100+ footers at the marina. You bump one of those and the new paint job would cost over $200K.

markpierce said:

That's a mistake, leastwise here. Even for a day's docking, some marinas, one example: Berkeley wants proof of sufficient insurance in addition to proof of current documentation/registration as well as prepaid fees since no one there accepts payment during a weekend or holiday. My home marina (Vallejo) requires annual proof of insurance as well as registration/documentation and is closed on weekends so guests aren't welcome unless they can visit during the business week to make arrangements.

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I can only post my personal experiences. I don't carry proof of insurance on my boat. I've never been asked to show proof of documentation or registration either. As for fees, it's pay when you get there normally. A few places are pay before you leave.

My experience has been on the US east coast from the top of the Chesapeake Bay to Florida.

I would expect for anything out of the ordinary to be mentioned in Active Captain.

O C Diver said:

My liability insurance is $500,000 on the boat policy. Then my personal umbrella policy raises all liability coverage on the boat policy to $3M. Cost less than $100 to add my boat to my umbrella policy. Pretty much a no brainer.

Probably not to many $7M boats I can sink with my boat.

Ted

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Yep, that's my plan, too. Hope like hell, it doesn't ever hapoen.

We have liability only. Our boat is valued at $40K. We live in the Keys. Boat US wanted $6,200 per year for full coverage or $200 a year for $300K liability only. That's right it is not a misprint. $6K a year to cover my $40K boat. We decided to self insure. In six and a half years we would have paid for their entire exposure. Stupid! We have never had a claim and live on a mooring, I will take my chances. Gieco who owns Boatus was a little cheaper at $5K a year. No thanks. We have not had a hurricane in the Keys for 12 years. Give us a break, and yes I know we will get one sometime but 12 years of collecting premiums with no storms has to count for somethimg.

Insurance is only a risk/benefit situation... a financial decision.

I could argue strongly it the premium is 2% of the hull, it makes no sense to cover the hull.

For the most part, liability is pretty cheap, and will pay for the defense, which is nice especially for frivolous law suits (which is most of them)

So, insure for what you feel your risk level is.

READY2GO said:

We have liability only. Our boat is valued at $40K. We live in the Keys. Boat US wanted $6,200 per year for full coverage or $200 a year for $300K liability only. That's right it is not a misprint. $6K a year to cover my $40K boat. We decided to self insure. In six and a half years we would have paid for their entire exposure.

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Certainly think you have a valid point. Just curious, as a hypothetical, what would you consider a reasonable percentage (not $ amount) of hull value for a premium to be?

Ted

This is a hobby. Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace? If my boat burned and sank I just would not need to pay moorage anymore. And I could afford to replace the boat so I see no reason to carry insurance.

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why? Probably because most are buying boats on credit and the banks require it. Can't relate to that either. That is buying boats on credit.

Yes, I agree.
I think everyone should be required to have everything.

Nomad Willy said:

This is a hobby. Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace? If my boat burned and sank I just would not need to pay moorage anymore. And I could afford to replace the boat so I see no reason to carry insurance.

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why? Probably because most are buying boats on credit and the banks require it. Can't relate to that either. That is buying boats on credit.

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We insure our boats for the same reason we insure my cars, for the same reason we insure our home, for the same reason we have health insurance, for the same reason we have umbrella insurance, for the same reason we have business insurance. Sharing the risks with others to avoid a major unplanned expenditure. I'm willing to engage in a poor financial deal for leveling the expenses related to any of these policies. I like to have a good handle on what my expenses are going to be next year. Without insurance if I had no claims, my costs would be a moderately less amount. However, a claim could make my costs many times what the insurance costs.

O C Diver said:

Certainly think you have a valid point. Just curious, as a hypothetical, what would you consider a reasonable percentage (not $ amount) of hull value for a premium to be?

Ted

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OC,

My number is 2% of hull value.. depending. If I'm doing the loop running almost daily there's a lot more exposure, more reason to insure. At home port, running out weekly, much less.

I have different numbers for cars, houses and planes. But overall, I could argue strongly against hull insurance.

BandB said:

We insure our boats for the same reason we insure my cars, for the same reason we insure our home, for the same reason we have health insurance, for the same reason we have umbrella insurance, for the same reason we have business insurance. Sharing the risks with others to avoid a major unplanned expenditure. I'm willing to engage in a poor financial deal for leveling the expenses related to any of these policies. I like to have a good handle on what my expenses are going to be next year. Without insurance if I had no claims, my costs would be a moderately less amount. However, a claim could make my costs many times what the insurance costs.

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BandB,

Nothing wrong with that philosophy, but eventually you will loose and pay more premiums than you get in benefits, unless you're just an awful risk. I believe most of us want to be safe and take aggressive steps for that, and we will come out way ahead.

Liability is a bit different than hull, and could argue that anything that moves or has people on it or in it could be a liability risk. And even though one most likely ever get back in claims than premiums, one huge loss could take more than a life time to recover, whereas the hull insurance premium can break even in 10 to 20 years. It's just a matter of numbers. I've never insured a car for collision or comprehensive, and I've never had a claim. I could buy another car or two for what I've saved in premiums, so it does work. I rarely insure a boat, but have a partner that wants it. I'm trying to convince him to drop it as we are paying 2% of hull which is ridiculous.

It's just a numbers game... with some risk/tolerance. I'll bet on myself and spend the premium money on safety or loss prevention.

READY2GO said:

We have liability only. Our boat is valued at $40K. We live in the Keys. Boat US wanted $6,200 per year for full coverage or $200 a year for $300K liability only. That's right it is not a misprint. $6K a year to cover my $40K boat. We decided to self insure. In six and a half years we would have paid for their entire exposure. Stupid! We have never had a claim and live on a mooring, I will take my chances. Gieco who owns Boatus was a little cheaper at $5K a year. No thanks. We have not had a hurricane in the Keys for 12 years. Give us a break, and yes I know we will get one sometime but 12 years of collecting premiums with no storms has to count for somethimg.

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I am surprise that for the first time I see something more expensive in US than in Canada! My boat is valued to 65K$ in it current state and it cost me around 500$ per year for full coverage with 2M liability, and for 50$ more they I get extras like towing coverage, lodging if I am stucked somewhere and many other things. Maybe in your case the hurricane hazard is making your cost higher but I would nt have thought it would be such higher.

L.

Nomad Willy said:

This is a hobby. Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace? If my boat burned and sank I just would not need to pay moorage anymore. And I could afford to replace the boat so I see no reason to carry insurance.

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why? Probably because most are buying boats on credit and the banks require it. Can't relate to that either. That is buying boats on credit.

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I have a friend who is a doctor with a small house on the beach. He only carries homeowners, not wind or flood. He can afford to rebuild the house from his bank account and invests the money he would have paid for those oh so high premiums. So far, he's already way ahead. Most of us can't do that. Most large companies self insure to a large degree for the same reason. They are depreciating stuff down on a schedule anyway.

Our boat is paid for but I would have a hard time getting my wife to co-sign the check to replace it if we didn't have insurance!