Passagemaker gets (yet another) remake

Carey wrote:

Sure is interesting that PM chose to invite all of us old members back, before they even finished the site. Stupid if you ask me. I logged in with the newly assigned password, and then did a twenty minute search to find out how to change that password to one more intuitive to my memory.


Conrad wrote:

You may well be right although the eternal optimist in me thinks that once the forum goes live it will be prominently featured.


Conrad
Yes, I'm afraid your optimist is working overtime. I believe it will remain where it is.
Just the pessimist in me speaking.*

Or can we say realist?

*

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I'm afraid my optimism was misplaced as you suggest Carey. A week after its launch the PMM site continues to be nothing more than a billboard for advertising. Too bad, as there was a time, a long time ago, when it was a vibrant, interesting place to visit, to exchange ideas, and to learn from.

As a big fan of the Trawlerforum, I was not looking for a replacement, but rather another venue for sharing ideas when the topics on this board weren't currently of interest. (Yes, once in a while I find not everything here stirs my soul. But only once in a while!)

Conrad wrote:
As a big fan of the Trawlerforum, I was not looking for a replacement, but rather another venue for sharing ideas when the topics on this board weren't currently of interest. (Yes, once in a while I find not everything here stirs my soul. But only once in a while!)

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ConradYou are not alone. You'll see me come and go on TF, simply because I am not interested in flogging the anchor selection process to death. And you won't find me on the electrical threads either, as it's not my bag. I have the number of a quality professional marine electrician. We might drop in on Passagemaker in a year or two if they get their act together on their forum, but I won't lose any sleep over it if they don't.

*

Peter B ; I am not confusing the lists, I had been a "member" of TandT for some years when this all took place. I think it was actually a case of one individual red neck sounding off and then a whole bunch of little "me too's" yapping along at his heals. It went on escalating to the point where I was getting private e-mails telling me that they agreed with the initial group and at that point I pulled the plug.
I will say that one moderater and several members tried to talk me into staying on but I was so damned upset with the general attitudes that I just left and have not considered returning as I get far more enjoyment and information from this group that I found over there.
I have said my piece and lets just forget it - maybe I should not have brought it up in the first place but even so lets not drag it any further.
John Tones* "Penta"
Sidney, BC

After posting on PMM for the last 7years it is time I stopped lurking here and to say hello to the all of you here who used to be on PMM. I went to the PMM site and could not easlily find the forum, I have not been inclined to go back. I guess I will be reading here during ny lunch breaks and hoping to add some knowledge from my viewpoint as a broker.

Welcome aboard.

Glad to have you. I'm sure you expertise will come in handy.

SD

yachtbrokerguy wrote:

After posting on PMM for the last 7years it is time I stopped lurking here and to say hello to the all of you here who used to be on PMM. I went to the PMM site and could not easlily find the forum, I have not been inclined to go back. I guess I will be reading here during ny lunch breaks and hoping to add some knowledge from my viewpoint as a broker.

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Finally!* Hope all is well.

*

On PMM's Channels newletter site I gave them some feedback on their new website, and among other things they said:*

"Thank you for taking the time to comment. The Forums are not running yet because we are not satisfied with the user interface - they will go back up soon."

yachtbrokerguy wrote:

After posting on PMM for the last 7years it is time I stopped lurking here and to say hello to the all of you here who used to be on PMM. I went to the PMM site and could not easlily find the forum, I have not been inclined to go back. I guess I will be reading here during ny lunch breaks and hoping to add some knowledge from my viewpoint as a broker.

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Welcome aboard!!!!

And is there something we are missing here???

*

Tucker,
I thought you would never come over.
When i used to go back to PMM now and again I would see you still being faithfull and posting away.
Good to have you over.

Benn

Good to see you here Tucker. Now for a question - what are sold boat prices doing now say as compared to about 12 months ago? If you have any thoughts for pricing direction for Selenes and Nordhavns that would be appreciated.

Yes hi Tucker Fallon aka Yachtbrokerguy. Good to see you here. I remember you as always being informative, encouraging, and never pushing the brokerage side of things, so I'm sure you will be welcome and an asset here.
I too went back for a look at PMM. Sad to say lost my user-name and password - got a new one, only to find, as others have said - nothing......
I wonder why they felt the need to wipe all our names and posting history to start again? All it needed was to have a few remaining glitches fixed. They've changed the colours and layout a bit, but otherwise, same old same old, so why the total sweep, I wonder? Guess we'll never know. I was informed my user-name was already in use. Well that was probably me anyway, as no-one else had Peter B before she went down. How dumb is that?

Peter B wrote:
I too went back for a look at PMM. Sad to say lost my user-name and password - got a new one, only to find, as others have said - nothing......
I wonder why they felt the need to wipe all our names and posting history to start again? All it needed was to have a few remaining glitches fixed. They've changed the colours and layout a bit, but otherwise, same old same old, so why the total sweep, I wonder? Guess we'll never know. I was informed my user-name was already in use. Well that was probably me anyway, as no-one else had Peter B before she went down. How dumb is that?

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Are all of the old topics and threads still there?* It almost sounds like they started over with an entirely new database.* However, that would not prevent you from reusing your old login and password.* Unless they had some sort of partial DB loss?

Those kinds of issues are exactly why Baker and I elected not to use one of our nephews to operate this site.* We went with a hosting site that has been very reliable for us.* We may not have made the best choice on the forum platform/hosting service, but at least it works.

*

Doug, my two cents is that your choice was as good as anyone could have made.* This site is a whole lot more user friendly and useful than any others.* Plus, you let the children play with matches without over-moderation, so it is ever so much more fun to be here.

PMM's issues just seem to be the result of a business model that doesn't recognize value in a usable forum, or technical incompetance, or both.

Thanks for the warm reception!!
Sunchaser you asked about prices from one year ago to now. If I knew what prices might be in the future I would be making a fortune on Wall Street, not selling boats!
The trawler market did not suffer the drastic fall of the Sea Rays and sportfish boats, but the market was severley depressed from previous years. Currently the market has improved for sellers, there is more activity, but the buyers have heard all of these stories of the incredible deals of last year and expect that they can find the same. Yes, there are some extra good deals, but they are the exception not the rule. For Nordhavn and Selene, the high quality and desirability of these boats has helped keep their values. I did a search yesterday for sold 57 Nordhavns and only found one sale reported since Jan 1, 2009, but I know more have sold. It might be that the dealers who sell these boats new might not want to report on SOLDBOATS.com the actual selling prices of brokerage boats, and have simply deleted the boats from the internet sites.
With todays unrest in the Middle East and the spike in fuel prices, I can not see any more lowering of high end trawler pricing, and the stock market rise is encouraging for all of us.

Delfin wrote:
Doug, my two cents is that your choice was as good as anyone could have made.* This site is a whole lot more user friendly and useful than any others.* Plus, you let the children play with matches without over-moderation, so it is ever so much more fun to be here.

PMM's issues just seem to be the result of a business model that doesn't recognize value in a usable forum, or technical incompetence, or both.

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Thanks for the comments.* We knew that most of our readers would be mature adults and did not need any supervision.* We actually created this site because we could see a need for a place to post thoughts and views without wondering whether the moderator(s) might think it was offensive, not related to the type of boating they like, etc. etc. etc.

Baker and I have had to jump in and stomp out a fire created by one of the members playing with matches very few times.* John has probably done it more than me, I think I have done it twice in the 3 1/2 years we have been around.

Thanks for being a member!*

*

I happened to stop by the PMM site today to see if they had made any progress on reintroducing their forum.

Well, their forum is back up, but....you can't log in, and the read only version is full of spam, including "attractive" invitations to porn sites.

So I guess you could say that they have made no progress.

Conrad wrote:
Well, their forum is back up, but....you can't log in, and the read only version is full of spam, including "attractive" invitations to porn sites.

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*Yes, just checked it. Pretty awful.

dwhatty wrote:Conrad wrote:
Well, their forum is back up, but....you can't log in, and the read only version is full of spam, including "attractive" invitations to porn sites.

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*Yes, just checked it. Pretty awful.

*Well you can log in, if you register anew, but as you say, it's attrocious.* Full of blatant sex spam posts, so it's clearly not being moderated at all.* What an undignified come-down for something that used to be quite popular.* Oh how the mighty fall...once someone with a personal stake takes their hand off the wheel.* I think Bill Parletore would weep if he saw what had happened over there.

I sent them a somewhat terse email - wonder if I'll hear back...?

Well, I can tell you now. I did receive today a polite email, thanking me for my notification of the above, and they have taken the site down for now to figure out a way to stop the spammers.

Having checked in to the PMM forum occasionally over the last few months I'd say that their attention to it has been minimal, even if the spam has gone. Posts were jumbled chronologically and attributed to names pulled out of the air. My posts (the only ones that I knew for sure who posted them) had a completely unknown name attached.

In any event I suppose the above is irrelevant as the forum has now completely disappeared.

As Peter B mentioned, a sad end to a once vibrant forum, and somewhat indicative of the overall state of the magazine.*

"somewhat indicative of the overall state of the magazine. "

SAIL , Cruising World now come for free or at most $5.00 a year.

PM may be free next , tho the first 4 issues were probably the best they ever did.

Good example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Their "fixes" destroyed the site.

I just read in the 100th issue that PMM has been bought by Active Interest Media (AIM). They publish specialty mags like Yachts International, Backpacker, Vegetarian Times, and Old House Journal. They also do show management like the Miami Brokerage Show and FLIBS (Ft. Lauderdale International Boat Show).

Well isn't that interesting. Just went to AIM's site but it doesn't say much other than a buried message that they have brought PMM into their fold. Who knows what it will mean to what was once THE magazine of choice me, and I suspect many others.

Agree with FF in that their early issues were the best, although I thought they were good for a bit longer than just four issues!

Conrad,
Tend to agree with you. I still subscribe but wonder at the content these days.
The first few years were pretty good.
It's been down hill for quite a few years now.

I should be absolutely clear that my sadness re the demise of the PMM forum is not a reflection on this fine site which I view as an evolution of the PMM site. No, my sadness is around what PMM in general has become.

"No, my sadness is around what PMM in general has become."


Mags sell advertising to businesses.

Folks here looking to save a dime on a case of filters is not worth the add rates even to discounters..

However the roughly 20% markup on a new $500,000+ roomaran will pay for those $10,000 color add pages.

Conrad wrote:
I should be absolutely clear that my sadness re the demise of the PMM forum is not a reflection on this fine site which I view as an evolution of the PMM site. No, my sadness is around what PMM in general has become.

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*Haha....no need to clarify.* And I agree with you.* Especially the magazine.* I used to love that magazine.* I let my subscription lapse and just never wuite had the urge to renew....

There is a similarity between PMM and TF other than boats or specialty boats. A limited number of really meaty subjects to discuss. We've discussed some topics like single v/s twin and anchors so much that one can hardly post on the subjects without repeating themselves or someone else or getting boo'd. But the bottom line for a magazine is to sell ad space and you've got to admit PMMs done well at that. We don't have ad space (very little anyway) so can't measure up that way but we could have a separate thread for advertising whereas if a business is mentioned and a phone #,* web address link or any other contact information is given it would be required to be on the commercial thread. And such businesses would see it would be to their advantage to pay for such space and we could go on talking about whatever trivia we could think up. Then we could look back and see that we're basically in the same boat as PMM. Our first year was probably our best too. And that does explain why OTDE has done so well lately.

nomadwilly wrote:
There is a similarity between PMM and TF other than boats or specialty boats. A limited number of really meaty subjects to discuss. We've discussed some topics like single v/s twin and anchors so much that one can hardly post on the subjects without repeating themselves or someone else or getting boo'd.

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*I think Eric is absolutely correct.* This is why make-specific websites continue to do well in terms of participation, like the Grand Banks Owners forum.* People have questions, problems, or experiences specific to the make and other people with the same make provide answers, solutions, or comments.* Most of us on TF have enough experience now that we know the answers to most of the general questions.*

For the past several years now, the only important (to me) questions I've had have been specific to Grand Banks, or to the equipment on a Grand Banks.* But the more general questions I might have had once--- two engines vs one, tri-cabin vs. Europa, most efficient engine rpm for our boat, best electronic doohickey for our kind of boating, what kind of oil is best for our engines, and so on, have long, long since been answered.* Actually in our case they were answered way before I even started participating in any sort of boating forum.

So outside of the occasional newbie asking these kinds of questions, or a valuable suggestion like Keith's about using GoJo to clean shorepower cables and such, I don't find much anymore to discuss (outside of OTDE, which of course is not the reason this forum exists).

This is not to say I think TF has lost its value.* I has not and it continues to provide boaters--- particularly newer boaters--- with a very useful place to find answers and advice.* And it also provides a good place to get cruising information, particularly for east and Gulf coast boaters.* The fact that TF was set up intellegently to begin with and has maintained its very user-friendly format is one of the main reasons I think we all still participate even though we may not have that much new to say.