Short inside inverter

Went out to check on boat today and noticed I didn't have any 110 volt power . The charger was on in the inverter and I showed having 30 amps from shore power but no 110 at my breaker box . I tracked it down to this connection inside the inverter . Would a butt connector be better here or should I go back with the same ? We were lucky we had no serious fire .

I don't think the connector is the problem...


Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?

kev_rm said:

I don't think the connector is the problem...


Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?

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xantrex moniter showed 30 amp incoming from shore power . I did not put an ammeter on it . The charger was still working . About a week ago I did a NO NO and used a short extension cord on a ceramic heater for about 3 hrs . After I turned it off I could hardly get the cord unplugged from the heater . I'm thinking this is when this connection inside the inverter started heating up .

I would suggest going back with the same connector. Cut back to clean untarnished wire.

kev_rm said:

I don't think the connector is the problem...


Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?

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I don't think the connector is the problem either . Do you think this type of connector is the best to use here or is something else better ?

Bob Cofer said:

I would suggest going back with the same connector. Cut back to clean untarnished wire.

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Thanks . Do you think the heater may have started this problem ?

The short answer is that unit was designed, tested and UL listed with that connector. Substituting with a different type will probably not improve the performance.

Yep. Especially since the plug was nearly melted in the cord.

Placing stranded wire under a screw terminal is asking for trouble.

Dip the stranded end into solder (1/4 inch is fine) as you find on most Euro electrical goodies.

That heat damage may go far up that burned lead.

Connector probably loosened with thermal cycles, probably good to snug it periodically.

And ceramic heaters can have high inrush current. I've got one and don't like using it on the boat for that reason.

I think the damage was caused by the screw being slightly loose resulting in resistance and the connection heating up. I would replace the connector with a similar one rated for that current.


I would not dip the wire in solder, just make sure the bare ends are clean and shiny.


BTW: What you have there is not a "short". A "short" would be where the hot conductor touched the neutral or ground conductor. A "short" would trip the breaker or blow the fuse.

I agree that the most likely problem was a slightly loose connection. I had a similar situation on the D.C. Input of my inverter. Anytime a connection becomes loose it has increased resistance and if it is used heavily it can get really hot. The heat at the connection makes the resistance even higher and eventually it's a runaway situation.

I would replace like with like, strip back the wire until you find good or replace wire as required. Tighten well and check tightness periodically.

If you're interested in covering the stranded wire before its clamped, the best way is with a ferrule. These are cheap and readily available. Unfortunately they require a crimper made for them.

Ken

Using unlisted electric material for an AC load is not a good idea.. You were lucky not caught fire... Always it's good idea keep an eye on AC connectors over the winter. Even with low charge the combination of heat and old plastic it's fatal for connectors.
I always reject the idea install an inverter at "on line" over the main AC line, always prefer put over a sub panel with dedicated AC line. An inverter storage a lot of power on that huge capacitor and can discharge in a second.

Is this just a standard connector that I would get from a home store or is this a marine grade connector? Electricity is by far my weakest point . I can fix this but I want to make sure I'm using the right materials .

Mule

Do you always leave your inverter on when you are plugged into shore power? What brand and size of inverter are you using? PSW or MSW?

sunchaser said:

Mule

Do you always leave your inverter on when you are plugged into shore power? What brand and size of inverter are you using? PSW or MSW?

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I'm not at the boat right now but I think it is Freedom inverter/charger 2000 . I leave on for the charger
only .

Pack Mule said:

Is this just a standard connector that I would get from a home store or is this a marine grade connector? Electricity is by far my weakest point . I can fix this but I want to make sure I'm using the right materials .

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I would disconnect it (after noting which wire goes where) and take it to a wholesale electronics distributor (NOT RADIO SHACK). Most cities have one.

They will recognize the connector and either have one in stock or can order one.

If you cannot solder, use a ferrule on the stranded wire. Eurostrips are your best choice. Butt connections are not.

Just curious: doesn't your inverter automatically transfer the inverter loads to shore side or genny power when those power sources are on? Also, isn't it a good idea to turn the inverter "off" when you are away from the boat?

Pack Mule said:

Went out to check on boat today and noticed I didn't have any 110 volt power . The charger was on in the inverter and I showed having 30 amps from shore power but no 110 at my breaker box . I tracked it down to this connection inside the inverter . Would a butt connector be better here or should I go back with the same ? We were lucky we had no serious fire .

Click to expand...

You cannot load an ac power source to the point where there is no voltage but have 30 amps. I don't doubt that something read 30 amperes, maybe a stuck meter. If the 30 amps you read was real, it had to have a source.......from your batteries or the dock power stanchion.

Did you find anything hot? That current will heat wire .... generates 4,600 watts somewhere if from ac line.

JDCAVE said:

Just curious: doesn't your inverter automatically transfer the inverter loads to shore side or genny power when those power sources are on? Also, isn't it a good idea to turn the inverter "off" when you are away from the boat?

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I have power to the inverter when my shore power is on . I'm not using the inverter part of the inverter/charger ,only the charging part . Like I said electric is my weak part . I hope I'm using my inverter/ charger the right way or am I missing something here ?

This connection that failed is inside the inverter. This is my 110 volt going to the 110 volt breaker box . I had power to the inverter/ charger but no power at the 110 volt breaker box .

olegreg said:

If you cannot solder, use a ferrule on the stranded wire.

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Again, do not solder the bare wire. Follow the instructions for the connector. If it's designed for stranded wire (and it would be on a marine device), simply strip the insulation back, twist the strands together, insert them into the slot and tighten the screw.

It's not possible to tell from the photo, but these terminal strips are usually designed so the screw bears down on a flat piece of metal that contacts the wire. The screw does not contact the strands itself.

WesK said:

Again, do not solder the bare wire. Follow the instructions for the connector. If it's designed for stranded wire (and it would be on a marine device), simply strip the insulation back, twist the strands together, insert them into the slot and tighten the screw.

It's not possible to tell from the photo, but these terminal strips are usually designed so the screw bears down on a flat piece of metal that contacts the wire. The screw does not contact the strands itself.

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I just went to the home store . They had a similar terminal block and it has a flat strip that the screws bears down on . I didn't buy one because it didn't look as heavy duty as the one I have . Going to the boat today and take mine out and carry it to electrical supply house tomorrow.

Pack Mule said:

I just went to the home store . They had a similar terminal block and it has a flat strip that the screws bears down on . I didn't buy one because it didn't look as heavy duty as the one I have . Going to the boat today and take mine out and carry it to electrical supply house tomorrow.

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As said, take the old with you to match the current capacity.
Those Euro strips are good.
As you saw they are available with the pressure strip so the ferrules are not required. Just be sure what you purchase has that pressure strip.
Yes to re-snuging after a short time as stranded wire may allow strands to move slightly.

I think I have seen them in Blue Seas line up also.

Yes to either replace that wire entirely or if there is enough slack cut it back to good copper. Carefully check the other conductors for any heat produced damage.

Well here it is .

Really hard to tell if there is a moving pressure plate under the screw (good!!) ,

or just a screw going down into the loose wiring end (crap).

FF said:

Really hard to tell if there is a moving pressure plate under the screw (good!!) ,

or just a screw going down into the loose wiring end (crap).

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You have to look close but you can see the plate.Its a model 30 Freedom combi.

First, I hope for your part that Mr. Freedom has not cooked its goose. And if not I want to give a warning pertaining to charging batteries......and that Freedom will charge 100 amperes.... fantastic!

Some years back I purchased a dead Freedom 3000 and I rebuilt it Essentially, it was a pig of a job but I did get it to operate. One night at Cuttyhunk, I had my genny running along the Freedom charger and its remote. It was charging about 75-80 amperes or so when I decided to switch the charging from one battery to another.

Yes, I have one of those so called make before break battery switches so I switched!!!

THERE WAS A MINOR EXPLOSION FOLLOWED BY ARCING AND FLAMES ...OH, AND HEAVY SMOKE ALSO COMING FROM THE BOX!!!

The so called make before break did NOT make before breaking resulting in the description above. The output from the charger has an internal inductor. So what? You cannot change current in an inductor instantaneously. Doing so results in a voltage spike that trys to reach infinity...of course it will never get there but while trying, it will ruin a good day.

I was lucky that it did not destroy my boat! I still have that thing in my basement and one day after spending a week or so in a gym, I will pick it up and carry it to the dump.

Be very careful switching batteries while being charged with this Freedom. It requires less than a nanosecond for an open charging circuit to cause a catastrophe.