Wolverine heater

Dhays, have you considered immersion block heaters or are you locked in on oil pan pad heaters? I've used Kim Hotstart immersion heaters with both my current 6bt Cummins and also 2-cycle Detroits. I'm pretty sure your QSBs have a pipe plug like mine on the stbd side of the block that will take the heating element. I run mine on timers, running 2 hours on and off when it's cold. The engine room stays about 20 degrees above ambient and the engines are warm to the touch. Gets rid of moisture downstairs too. I think they're 1000 watts each. I'll send you a picture of the installation if you'd like one.

Ken E. said:

Dhays, have you considered immersion block heaters or are you locked in on oil pan pad heaters? I've used Kim Hotstart immersion heaters with both my current 6bt Cummins and also 2-cycle Detroits. I'm pretty sure your QSBs have a pipe plug like mine on the stbd side of the block that will take the heating element. I run mine on timers, running 2 hours on and off when it's cold. The engine room stays about 20 degrees above ambient and the engines are warm to the touch. Gets rid of moisture downstairs too. I think they're 1000 watts each. I'll send you a picture of the installation if you'd like one.

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I have considered it. My first concern is that they are normally a much higher wattage. The nice thing about a pan heater is that they are quite low power and are heating the engine at the bottom, which means the heat will tend to rise (very simplistic thinking on my part).

Pan heater will heat the oil (if its above the heater) and yes heat will rise but an oil pan heater won't warm your engine, not enough power. Heat radiates away from the engine as fast as you are adding it at the bottom so no practical temp rise.

In taking down an oil pan many of the magnetic heaters will show carbon deposits from burning the oil.

Heating the coolant is far far a better system.

FF said:

In taking down an oil pan many of the magnetic heaters will show carbon deposits from burning the oil.

Heating the coolant is far far a better system.

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We will see how it goes. I know Tony Athens has been recommending pan heaters over the coolant heaters for a few years now.

I got the pan heater installed today. The process is simple but it was very difficult. I imagine my boat is similar to many. The bottom of the oil pan is about 6" from the bottom of the oil drip pan. The bottom is also about 5" below the two steel structural pieces that run lengthwise on either side of the engine. So to sand off the paint on the bottom of the pan was a bit of a pain. It entailed laying between the engine and the water tanks and reach one arm down and wiggling my fingers with the sand paper. It was painful.

Eventually, I got the paint off (three layers) down to bare metal. I was able to get the pad heaters stuck in position (again one handed). Then seal the edge with high temp silicone.

Then the relatively easy task of running an extension cord near the engine so I can plug it in. Finally, trying to reprint the metal next to the heating pads.

All in all it took about 10 hours of very painful work to complete a job that I thought would take about 30 minutes. Tomorrow I will go back and check the temps.

Should the bilge fill will the heating pads need replacement?

Stuff happens,,,

stone beach said:

Pan heater will heat the oil (if its above the heater) and yes heat will rise but an oil pan heater won't warm your engine, not enough power. Heat radiates away from the engine as fast as you are adding it at the bottom so no practical temp rise.

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This was my experience and general thought.

I would be interested in knowing just where all the heat from 250w or whatever really goes.

Maybe someone with the new IR tech can take a picture with some engine room temp info to see what is what.

I had the coolant heater installed in the repower I did on my Mainship. Power was no problem as it was included in the slip fee.
However it made the engine too hot. I only used it a few times and then only to help warm the boat on a cool weekend.

FF said:

Should the bilge fill will the heating pads need replacement?

Stuff happens,,,

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I would be concerned that the oil pan would get rusty after you sanded off the paint should you have a "water event".

FF said:

Should the bilge fill will the heating pads need replacement?

Stuff happens,,,

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Probably not. These are designed to be attached to the bottom of oil pans on diesel trucks. As such, they are exposed to the elements all the time. The reason for the silicone sealant is to seal the edges to keep water/oil/solvent/road salt ect... from intruding around the edge of the pads and work away at the adhesive. A flooded bilge shouldn't be a problem. Well, at least it wouldn't be a problem for the pads. Depending on the height of the water there will be all kinds of other problems.

psneeld said:

This was my experience and general thought.

I would be interested in knowing just where all the heat from 250w or whatever really goes.

Maybe someone with the new IR tech can take a picture with some engine room temp info to see what is what.

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I don't have an IR camera but I do have a temperature gun. I will be down on the boat today to check it out.

I left the diesel furnace on in the boat from Friday am to Saturday evening with the ER hatches open. By the time I got the heating pads installed the temps at the oil pan were 62°F and the top of the engine was 67°F. There was a definite temperature gradient on the whole of the engine. The top which was a few inches from the 70° saloon air was much warmer than the parts of the engine near the bottom of the bilge and closer to the 48° water.

So I will see what it looks like today with cool overnight temps and no heat on in the boat.

jleonard said:

I would be concerned that the oil pan would get rusty after you sanded off the paint should you have a "water event".

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Yeah, I had the same concern. I did mask and then try and respray engine paint onto the oil pan. I got reasonably good coverage but trying to spray the bottom of a pan that you can't see directly so are working with a mirror sitting on the bottom is "interesting".

sorry, stupid question of what type of oil do you use? do you not have winter grade oil that ensures lubrication immediately started up the engine.


I difficult to understand what benefits 200-300w heater + 500kg engine. I Espar blow, if necessary, the engine room and also heats the engine while the whole boat.

dhays said:

Yeah, I had the same concern. I did mask and then try and respray engine paint onto the oil pan. I got reasonably good coverage but trying to spray the bottom of a pan that you can't see directly so are working with a mirror sitting on the bottom is "interesting".

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Cut off the handle of a cheap chip brush and spread on some rustoleum.

North Baltic sea said:

sorry, stupid question of what type of oil do you use? do you not have winter grade oil that ensures lubrication immediately started up the engine.


I difficult to understand what benefits 200-300w heater + 500kg engine. I Espar blow, if necessary, the engine room and also heats the engine while the whole boat.

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Great question. I have the Cummins recommended 15w40 oil in the engine. Again, I have never had a cold start problem with this engine, even in some relatively cold weather (week of temps never exceeding 30 F). In the past I have kept a 1000W Air Dry heater in the ER. My hope, based largely on what Tony Athens has written and some other folks on Boatdiesel.com, is to decrease any condensation on the engine, keep the oil very fluid for start up, and provide some low level heat in the ER to keep water lines from freezing, and to eliminate the 1000W Air Dry unit.

So I am at the boat this morning. The heating pads have been plugged in for about 14 hours. The temps overnight dropped below freezing as there was ice on the floating docks as I walked to the boat. Using an IR temp gun this is what I found:

Temps:
Bottom of the heating pad (faces down towards the bilge), 200 F
Bottom of oil pan next to the heating pad, 160 F
Side of the oil pan, 120 F
Engine block midway up, 65 F
Top of engine by oil fill, 58 F
Surface temps in the saloon, 47 F
Surface temps under head (forward of the engine, saloon and separate bilge space than ER) 47 F
Surface temps in ER 52 F
Temp of the longitudinal steel supports that the engine mounts are on, 56 F

So my interpretation of these numbers... after 14 hours the interior of the boat cooled from the 70 F last night to 47 F. The top of the engine cooled from 67 F to 58 F. The engine block stayed at the same temperature and the oil pan is a lot warmer.

It appears that the 250W pan heaters have kept the engine block about 20 F warmer than the rest of the boat. It has also kept the ER 5F warmer than the rest of the boat. Keep in mind that the engine hatches were open all night. So any heat in the ER would have mixed with the Saloon. That didn't appear to warm the saloon at all but with the hatches closed it may keep the ER slightly warmer. It was also only 14 hours and from my reading it should take about 24-48 hours for the temp gradients to stabilize.

jleonard said:

Cut off the handle of a cheap chip brush and spread on some rustoleum.

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Good idea.

Any wind last night?

psneeld said:

Any wind last night?

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A light breeze for the move part.

Here are some photos is the install.

Looking aft at the bottom of the oil pan.


My view of the bottom of the pan in the mirror set on the bottom of the drain pan.


Here are close photos of each of the pads.


And finally where the extension cord and heater power cords are mounted.

A stiff breeze always dropped my er temp to near outside due to the large vents. Plus the 3208s were quite a bit of spread out iron.

Finding a way to close the engine room air vents is always a good way to keep heat in an engine overnight.

stone beach said:

Finding a way to close the engine room air vents is always a good way to keep heat in an engine overnight.

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I know where the vents are on the outside, but I am not sure how the vents are routed into the ER. So many things that I don't yet know about my boat.

Just cover them on the outside. Simple plastic bag will do the trick

dhays said:

Great question. I have the Cummins recommended 15w40 oil in the engine. Again, I have never had a cold start problem with this engine, even in some relatively cold weather (week of temps never exceeding 30 F). In the past I have kept a 1000W Air Dry heater in the ER. My hope, based largely on what Tony Athens has written and some other folks on Boatdiesel.com, is to decrease any condensation on the engine, keep the oil very fluid for start up, and provide some low level heat in the ER to keep water lines from freezing, and to eliminate the 1000W Air Dry unit.

So I am at the boat this morning. The heating pads have been plugged in for about 14 hours. The temps overnight dropped below freezing as there was ice on the floating docks as I walked to the boat. Using an IR temp gun this is what I found:

Temps:
Bottom of the heating pad (faces down towards the bilge), 200 F
Bottom of oil pan next to the heating pad, 160 F
Side of the oil pan, 120 F
Engine block midway up, 65 F
Top of engine by oil fill, 58 F
Surface temps in the saloon, 47 F
Surface temps under head (forward of the engine, saloon and separate bilge space than ER) 47 F
Surface temps in ER 52 F
Temp of the longitudinal steel supports that the engine mounts are on, 56 F

So my interpretation of these numbers... after 14 hours the interior of the boat cooled from the 70 F last night to 47 F. The top of the engine cooled from 67 F to 58 F. The engine block stayed at the same temperature and the oil pan is a lot warmer.

It appears that the 250W pan heaters have kept the engine block about 20 F warmer than the rest of the boat. It has also kept the ER 5F warmer than the rest of the boat. Keep in mind that the engine hatches were open all night. So any heat in the ER would have mixed with the Saloon. That didn't appear to warm the saloon at all but with the hatches closed it may keep the ER slightly warmer. It was also only 14 hours and from my reading it should take about 24-48 hours for the temp gradients to stabilize.

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You could intensify to cover up the heating Cummins flees even if a blanket, so it is isolated from heat go sea birds.

15W40 oil is ok -10 -15 ° C and the lowest pumpability is -25 ° C and it is time for the syrup and hardly not the best lubrication.

North Baltic sea said:

You could intensify to cover up the heating Cummins flees even if a blanket, so it is isolated from heat go sea birds.

15W40 oil is ok -10 -15 ° C and the lowest pumpability is -25 ° C and it is time for the syrup and hardly not the best lubrication.

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You are correct. Cummins says that 15w40 is OK down to -15 C (5 F). It is extremely rare to get those types of temperature where I live and never at the water since Puget Sound acts as huge heat sink.

Again, I don't operate in truly frigid conditions.

"Again, I don't operate in truly frigid conditions."

In the north east it one of the best times to go cruising.

Every harbor looks nice with a covering of snow and the anchorages are empty!!

With our Dickinson diesel range , no electric is used so endurance is only a matter of fuel supply.

FF said:

"Again, I don't operate in truly frigid conditions."

In the north east it one of the best times to go cruising.

Every harbor looks nice with a covering of snow and the anchorages are empty!!

With our Dickinson diesel range , no electric is used so endurance is only a matter of fuel supply.

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I like cruising in the winter. It isn't that we don't like to go out in frigid weather, it is just that we don't have truly frigid weather. Every few years we may have a week where the harbor will ice up around my marina, but the ice never gets very thick as it is only the bit of brackish water from the creek that is floating on top that freezes.

On the boat today. The temps have warmed up a bit.
Outside air temps: 48F
Dock temp: 54F
Int Saloon temp: 56F
Bilge Temp: 52F
ER bilge temp: 54F
Motor Mounts: 56F
Side of oil pan: 120F
Bottom of pan: 160F
Engine block: 70F
Top of engine: 68F

So it looks like under these conditions that the engine is about 15-18 degrees above what it would be without the heater. The ER as a whole is only a couple of degrees above what it would be.

So a weekend of hard work, under $100 total spent, lots of sore muscles, and a constant 250W of electricity for an engine 15 degrees warmer than it would be otherwise. Too early to tell but I am happy with the trade off. What I hope it accomplishes is less condensation on the engine, quicker warm up after start, and an ER that will stay above freezing in really cold temps. Time will tell.

What's all the fuss about?

I use straight 30 weight lube oil in all temps experienced in SE Alaska and now Wn State. Never leave the boat unheated so the engine compartment never gets below 40 degrees f. I've never had the sloghtest problem starting the engine. I just start the engine up and smooth idle it till we leave the float. Then slowly increase rpm from 1400 until cruising rpm is reached .. (2300) in 10 min at least more often 15. Low viscosity oil is not needed on a boat for startup. Consider that oil is a fluid and basically not compressible. And that oil pumps are positive displacement pumps so if an oil pump turns 100 rpm it pumps x amount of oil wether it's 30 weight or 15 weight. And thicker oil is better at keeping metal parts appart and the residual oil will be thicker if you run 30 weight.

So I see no need for heaters other than in cold temps a small electric to insure no freezing in the engine compartment.

If you don't have time for warm up all the above can be thrown out.

Hope you know that it gets WAYYYYYYYYY colder in the Northeast than it ever did when I was on Kodiak Island, Ak.

There were days in Feb 1983 that it was colder in Mobile, Alabama than where I was off Nome, Alaska stuck in the arctic ice pack.

Overall, sure temps are all over the place even in one local. But 5 years in a row now on my way to Florida, I had frost on the decks and engine room temps below 32.

So multi-weights did help a bit.

When I wintered in NJ, if I didn't plug in my diesel truck, it barely started and ran like crap for a few minutes. I switched to a 5W40 synthetic, never a problem starting or warmup. Still purrs after 16 years.

Because Blackstone confirms the other sources I have been following, I see no harm in running multi viscosity oils.