Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat

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I would call that a houseboat. First they built a house, then they made it into a boat.

Ted
 
When I first saw the listing, I would have sworn it was made of steel. But no, it's fiberglass. No curves, but lots of space. It even has baseboards...

This guy Gustoff made his own design and then had a steel company cut it from CAD plans. He said it came in over 1000 parts. He built it in a concrete shop and the boat was just about as big as you can get and still get it out the door. One thing I like is the Deutz diesel engine he installed. It's a new water cooled engine, not the old air cooled tank engines. But still Deutz.

He has a remote control, a sunroof, and even a glass floor on the helm where he can look into the engine room. In the last video, he said it was about 6 years build time, and if you watch all the videos, they built everything.

 
Great article in Passagemaker magazine (May/June 2016)
There is an outstanding article about Dave and Bobbi FORSMAN, PILGRIM 40 owners "Liberty" https://pilgrimliberty.wordpress.com/

in the new Passagemaker magazine (May/June 2016).

It is a great Tribute to be in the top shelf magazine!

We admire their excellent and hard work. We are so honored to have Bobbi and Dave as our Ambassadors of those magnificent PILGRIMS.

Their engagement, skills and contributions to the boating community are laudable.

I am quite impressed with his professional career accomplishment, Dave was Senior Lecturer in Engineering at at Penn State Erie, The Behrend College.

Dave got his B.S. in Engineering Technology from the Pennsylvania State University and his M.E. in Manufacturing Systems Engineering from SUNY at Buffalo.

He has been involved with engineering computer analysis since 1974. He has extensive experience in teaching Computer Graphics, Programming, CAD, and Rapid Prototyping.

FORSMAN Home page (on psu.edu)

Mostly, I am quite inspired with his problem analysis during his Pilgrim 40 maintenance and upgrade projects:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...oject_Page.htm

Other members and I have benefited from learned advices and he certainly won my admiration for his engagement to the Pilgrim community.

We are so proud to be PILGRIM owner and member of this Group!
Kudos!
 
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Steel Boat, heaven or hell?

Just happened across this article by Bill Parlatore, past editor of PassageMaker magazine.

Cold Hard Steel | PassageMaker

Another steel hull advocate...
tkeithlu said:
My steel boat is in for a sandblast and paint of the upper works. We've never had good adhesion, and that's a lesson in letting pros do (and guarantee) paint on steel. After that it's a small but recurring job to chase down breakthroughs and patch them. Note I'm talking about upper works. I have never had the tiniest bit of rust below the waterline, even when there was bare steel showing, for the simple reason that I keep the hull at above one volt with generous use of aluminum anodes. Fourteen of them, plus the prop shaft zinc. I don't think of my boat as being a yacht - she's a miniature ship. The finish is rough, but OMG is she tough - I'll win any fight with anything made of fiberglass, and with docks as well. In addition, being steel lets me modify at will - the way the dinghy is mounted just got changed from over the fantail to up on the top deck, and the anchors have moved from "nostrils" to more normal bow rollers - and I made the parts in both cases out of scrap steel.
Steel boat – heaven or hell?
 
I can't imagine why anyone would want to redesign one of these .
 

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All boats need a little tweaking....but then they are completely different boats....:D
 
I love that boat!

I cannot be any happier with this comfortable and head turner boat. We were the attraction on the Erie Canal. Where ever we went the love the boat.

Even the E-6 Canal lockmaster mentionned again on our way back to Lake Champlain: " I love your boat!" and honestly this comment coming from a professional who sees boats everyday in his carreer is quite a compliment to Pilgrim 40 owners.

Here is a picture of LIBERTY in Holley, NY... Ain't she beautiful?

And when we arrived in Burlington, Vt for errands, we were on the six o'clock news... May be it was a happy coincidence...
 

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REDESIGN,..redefined

Pack Mule
I can't imagine why anyone would want to redesign one of these .


I`m with you, Mr Pilgrim has been done a disservice.
Believe me I was not really talking of modifying the topsides look of this vessel,...it is EXTREMELY attractive the way it exist.

I was looking at two items principally.
1) the construction of the vessel (both hull and topsides) that might be even more robust (steel bottom), and might be economically producible in limited numbers, without the very large upfront investment in tradition fiberglass plugs and molds to get into production.

2) tweaking some little interior details as they did themselves over the years with little changes in the layout, etc.

3) the possibility of a hard chine underwater hull design.

4) the possibility of a computer generated kit-boat offering
 
The locations we have visited during our cruising in the Champlain, Erie and Oswego canals had beautiful architectures, charm and history.

The people were quite friendly and very helpful.

The lift bridge and Lock Masters very quite professional and client service oriented. This was the best trip we did in 7 seasons.

Kudos for all the NY Canal personnel!

Next year, September 25-28 2017 New-York State are celebrating the bicentennial of groundbreaking for the Erie Canal and the centennial of its still operating successor – the New York State Barge Canal System.

it is co-hosted by the New York State Canal Corporation, Erie Canal way National Heritage Corridor, and please visit Syracuse !!!

We used The New York State Canal Corporation's 3rd Edition Official New York State Canal System Cruising Guide.

This GUIDE is a "must have."

You may order your Official 3rd Edition New York State Canal System Cruising Guide, fill out the order form below and fax it to 518-471-5936 or call 1-800-422-1825 to place an order over the phone.

Cost: $19.95 plus tax and shipping and handling. It is worth every pennies.

Purchase the Official Cruising Guide - New York State Canals

The Cruising Guide is filled with images, maps, and information on services and amenities along the Canal System.


This 185 page publication offers the following features:

Canal marinas and service listings;

Canal tourism and Canal way Trail information; and

Canal bridge clearances.

You may view the map of ALL the locations we visited:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10aXOXo2kR24EKeq1ju9qEAYVNQE&usp=sharing_eidp
 
brian eiland; I was looking at two items principally. 1) the construction of the vessel (both hull and topsides) that might be even more robust (steel bottom) said:
H
Brian: - laudable objectives.
If it could be done, and within my budget, I would be first in line for a new steel or aluminium Pilgrim!
Grace, beauty, and a pretty sheerline - these things are not dead! I believe there are lots of people who would be interested in a very slightly modernized version of this fine vessel.
BUT, please, please keep its' old-world charm and character!

(and when will mine be rolling off the production line?)
 
H
Brian: - laudable objectives.
If it could be done, and within my budget, I would be first in line for a new steel or aluminium Pilgrim!
Grace, beauty, and a pretty sheerline - these things are not dead! I believe there are lots of people who would be interested in a very slightly modernized version of this fine vessel.
The real question is are there really 'lots' of potential buyers??
Some preliminary research indicates a lot of people would not be satisfied with the slow speed of this vessel, particularly the younger crowd and the more wealthy crowd. That leaves the middle class older boater, who is saddled with his desire verses his wife's, and the fact that he has spent a lot of his disposable income trying to keep his siblings afloat following the 2008 economic crash.


SlowGypsy said:
BUT, please, please keep its' old-world charm and character!
I feel I need to repeat a posting I had made previously..
Brian said:
REDESIGN,..redefined

(Pack Mule said: I can't imagine why anyone would want to redesign one of these)
(BruceK said: I`m with you, Mr Pilgrim has been done a disservice.)

Believe me I was not really talking of modifying the topsides look of this vessel,...it is EXTREMELY attractive the way it exist.

I was looking at two items principally.
1) the construction of the vessel (both hull and topsides) that might be even more robust (steel bottom), and might be economically producible in limited numbers, without the very large upfront investment in tradition fiberglass plugs and molds to get into production.

2) tweaking some little interior details as they did themselves over the years with little changes in the layout, etc.

3) the possibility of a hard chine underwater hull design.

4) the possibility of a computer generated, pre-cut metal and interior wood trim,...a kit-boat offering


SlowGypsy said:
(and when will mine be rolling off the production line?)
I don't have the funds to start such such a project, but were I a bit younger I would be considering it. Perhaps we could find a young enthusiastic guy who wants to enter the boat building business. I'd be glad to lend my support at a VERY reasonable fee.
 
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John Wayne's first boat

This reference was just recently posted over on another subject thread, but I was afraid it might get lost in all the other 'stuff' on that subject thread. Plus it was a craigslist link that was provided, and we all know how quickly that material can disappear.

I posted some of the photos here as it has a somewhat similar theme to the Pilgrim vessel, but of course it is larger, and not as nostalgic looking.

~NorWester~ John Wayne's first Yacht, 76 feet of yacht with a truly historic provenance, she abounds with classic old nautical charm and wood boat shipwrighting. Rolled off the weighs in her original design as a heavy duty motorsailer, so she was built with heaver framing and planking then a standard motor yacht of the era. Her long and narrow hull provides for good fuel efficient cruising. Interior filled with beautiful mahogany and an exterior now providing for ease of upkeep. Major refit of her topsides summer of 2016, total new wheelhouse roof and framing, boat deck reworked and whole works sealed in the best deck coating used on commercial vessels, all superstructure, main decks and bulwarks re-finished at the same time, done at Lovrics ship yard in Anacortes, WA. This gal is ready to go, charter, cruise, live aboard, business venture, you name it she is ready for a new adventure.

Feel free to check out her museum web site at
Home - The Norwester Museum Tour

....or article and more pictures from the mariners Waggoner Guide at Grand Opening of John Wayne’s Boat the Norwester on July 9 in La Conner, Wa. - Waggoner Cruising Guide How about her service as YP 165 patrol vessel in WWII
http://www.navsource.org/archives/14/31165.htm

Sales options; NorWester is being sold with or without the business that is now associated with her as a John Wayne museum. Price for the business side will basically be the purchase price of the John Wayne memorabilia, movie props, and other movie star autographed items. Im sure if you want a few items to keep with the boat You can purchase all or a portion of the items! Advertised listed price is the Yacht only. Owners plans have suddenly changed after just getting all this work done and setting her up as a museum with tours and gift shop. Letting her go at this super, super price for a quick sale.
 

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I have a 45' x 12' Steel Canal barge "New" project for sale in Florida. Cadillac (772) 285-2266
 
Steel Hull opinion

I had posted previously....

Why steel for the hull,...why not fiberglass like most other production boats these days? One of the key words here is 'production boat'. Sure making up the plugs, then the molds for a production run of boats makes sense. But what if you don't really know how many copies you may build,...what if its a limited run geared for a specific market?? Then you are trapped with an up-front, expensive bit of tooling that you can not amortize over a goodly number of vessels.

But if we still consider a fiberglass hull, we certainly know by now we don't really want, nor need, sandwich core construction in the hull structure below the water line,...for that matter we might well leave it out of the hull structure altogether. That leaves us with solid fiberglass construction utilizing some decent resins, some decent fiberglass, and some good gel coats. Great Harbor Trawlers brags that their hull bottoms are solidly built with “laminates of more than 1-inch thick”.

When I start thinking about the labor hours to lay-up the laminates of that thick solid glass bottom, and their cost of quality resins in today's new oil price market, I just have to come back to the reality that just as tough a hull can be fabricated from a single, much thinner thickness of sheet plate steel at a fraction of that cost. And the steel's ductility makes it all the more appealing.

Why steel? It's an inexpensive material, easily fabricated, and very durable. It's a material that inspires confidence in a boat's survivability from mishaps and collisions by both experienced boat owners and newly minted ones.


Can we build the steel hull shape we might want, and can we build it at a reasonable price? I certainly believe so. I believe we could build an almost identical hull to that existing one in steel. I also believe it could be made even easier by modifying the hull slightly to a single chine, or maybe even a double chine if so desired.

I would propose that this steel hull could be built in a 'frameless fashion'.
http://5psi.net/index.php?q=node/11


View attachment 22059

View attachment 22060


As noted the computer cut steel panels are welded-up together while supported by this external jig-frame. Then the internal framing members (stringers, frames, bulkheads) can be added as deemed necessary. I've attached another photo example of a bulkhead with stringers. I think the Pilgrim design could get along fine with 5 of these major bulkhead types tying the hull sides together, and supporting the thick sandwich-cored deck I wish to place on top of their upper edges.

View attachment 22061


Note that the welded-up hull, with the bulkheads all installed, could remain in the jig-frame fixture while the engine and other equips are being installed (no deck is installed yet). The deck piece, and then major cabin superstructure, could actually be assembled on another part of the shop floor and then brought over and placed onto the assembled hull.


There are several other advantages to this steel hull idea. You will note that I mention 'computer cut panels' of steel. This not only shortens the time of construction of the steel hull, it also makes it a potential kit-boat candidate.

It has yet another potential benefit. Unlike a fiberglass hull where I am married to a single bottom design, I can change this hull's bottom design readily if something new looks feasible.

I just recently ran across this opinion on another forum that was discussion the best boat to do a circumnavigation...
excerpt...
OK, then: 70-ish ft. X 20-ish ft. in steel for the hull and Al for the superstructure. Why steel?
FRP burns at 500F, Al at 1220F, with steel at--tah-dah!--2800F.
FRP hull and deck are screwed and bonded together, while steel/Al are welded (Detaclad a la the USN). Welded deck-hull joints don't leak, and there is no core to worry about.

This would not be a marina queen. We are going off to places where there might be hammers and acetylene, but perhaps not a dram of MEK.

Steel has a greater yield strength--and much higher ultimate strength--than Al or FRP and so will bend, not shatter or rip--if one encountered a semi-submerged shipping container, or reef/rock not on your chart.
Additionally, your steel hull would have fuel/freshwater/waste tankage built integrally into the hull, thus providing a double bottom over a good portion of the wetted surface. Oh, and a full keel with a 1" stainless steel shoe. Keel cooling covers a multitude of sins, minimizing through-hulls. Cleats and stanchions, and the like are welded to the deck and are there for keeps.

Downsides--I can hear the squawks already--OMG. Steel! Steel Rusts!!
Pre-primed ASTM36 from the mill, additional inorganic zinc primers, fully-faired hull with epoxy/polyurethane top coats... you'd mistake it for a FRP boat. Yeah, when the finish gets dinged, a brush and a can of zinc primer is a necessity.
 
Brian, I completely agree with you concerning hull construction in steel!
I am currently going throught the process of selling my beloved old Colvin steel schooner, and moving to a trawler, like the Pilgrim. Every boat I look at seems to have, or had, blisters/osmosis/hull delamination or soft deck problems due to the coring. Just thinking about all the issues I must be sure the surveyor addresses adequately reminds me again of why I love my steel hull!
Security, survivability, no deck to hull join leaks, no core rot, no soft decks, etc. Need a new cleat? - just weld it on!
In thirty years of ownership I have seen very little rust, none of it serious, and very easy to fix. (unlike a full FRP hull peel!)
I would love to have a steel Pilgrim!
 
If anybody does a steel pilgrim my word of advise. I am a previous owner and spent a few years of six months/year aboard. Don't do a round hull. Do a hard flat chine at the water and a deeper keel and keep the CG low thus an aluminum or composite house. As an alternative put a gyro stabilization system on the boat. Stop the roll and you have a great inland and costal boat.
 
Brian, thought I'd ad this to your above info on the NorWester.
Hope you don't mind.

 
The composite chine hull in the picture was built for SD speed scale of 6-20K. The same type of hull made of heavy steel with a deeper keel and the flattish wide buttock powered for hull seed and below 6-9K would in my opinion make a good inland and coastal boat. The chine construction in steel would be easy and cost effective. I believe this hull forum would give a new pilgrim a wider range of sea conditions to happily operate in. Yes it may not look like the original hull curved round hulls of the pilgrim is a thing of beauty. The boat need not be ugly I post an example of a potential look.
 

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Now THAT is a fine looking hull! - agree that the Pilgrim hull could stand a little tweaking in this regard, and still be a very "pretty" boat.
If only I could afford to have a yard custom build me a vessel like the one you posted above! :ermm:
 
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