Rocna Vulcan

Hi Eric

I agree 100% but I thought that was included either proper equipment and/or using good anchoring techniques.

Sorry if I wasn't clear..

WesK said:

I think all anchor comparisons are "subjective", not "objective. Unless you take several brands of anchors and subject them to identical conditions, your results are not scientific. Some anchor manufacturers have done side by side tests but since their anchors always win, these tests may be skewed.

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We are much favored by having Steve (SV Panope`s) objective tests of set, reset and scope shortening of numerous anchors. Which identified several, maybe 3 or 4, outstanding performers.
IMO every anchoring is a self contained event, current, tide, depth, wind, bottom,selected scope, setting/testing technique, etc, so many variables. Practice helps a lot.

We anchored in 20' of water with our Rocna Vulcan 20Kg ( 44 lbs ) all chain 5/16" HT rode and it set immediately and held during night winds of 10 to 15 with gust to 20 knots and a wind direction change of 180 degrees. I no longer miss my 45 lb CQR !

I'm as impressed with these new generation of anchors as you are. They are so good I get lazy sometimes and don't put out as much rode as I should or set it as properly as I should, I just hope a big wind doesn't come up at night.

Nomad Willy said:

You guys are ignoring the biggest variable in anchoring .. the bottom.

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I don't think so. You may have missed this in an earlier message: "Most anchors work better in certain bottom substrates than other seabeds. As a result, it may take a slightly different setting process to get an excellent hold in different seabeds. One has to know the strengths of his/her anchor and ground tackle as well as its challenges."

Steve

Steve,
I been caught ....

I have no science to back this up but I have dropped both aluminum and ss Spade type anchors in protected fair bottomed harbors with all or mostly chain. I have taken some care that the chain does not drop on the anchor. No effort was made to back down with any force. Twenty to thirty minuets later I attempted back down and every time the anchor was already set to point where chain went taught. I believe some anchors like the Spades ronca and mansons just set themselves. When I was a younger sailor and I dropped anchor without power even old school anchors often set first time. On the other hand I have seen many Chinese fire drills where boats tried to set with powered reverse and just backed across the anchorage. I am sure that my boats 660HP or any significant % of it would make a set unlikely. I have gradually over the years developed the habit of a slow set followed later by reverse to confirm and dig a little deeper. We must also remember that often enough with a significant change in wind and current our wonderful set is turned or pulled out and that is where a good anchor resets itself without the back down usually while we sleep and what does that have to do with our great anchoring skill. I reserve most of my skill for picking where I anchor and determining if I will need a second anchor and how much and what kind of rode after that it is up to the anchor and rode to do their job especially while I sleep.

No question that some anchors almost set themselves. That is what many advocate not rushing and allowing the anchor to do its thing. I know of at least one other anchor that acts the same way!
Steve

"We must also remember that often enough with a significant change in wind and current our wonderful set is turned or pulled out and that is where a good anchor resets itself without the back down"

I always considered the change of tide or wind and the feet the boat moved at that time to be similar to my setting the anchor under power.

Just my SSO.

Steve Bedford said:

No question that some anchors almost set themselves. That is what many advocate not rushing and allowing the anchor to do its thing. I know of at least one other anchor that acts the same way!
Steve

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So do I, it`s the one from Australia.
Another Steve, of SV Panope has done the hard yards of set and reset and scope shortening testing for this very Forum.

Steve Bedford said:

No question that some anchors almost set themselves. That is what many advocate not rushing and allowing the anchor to do its thing. I know of at least one other anchor that acts the same way!
Steve

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BruceK said:

So do I, it`s the one from Australia.
Another Steve, of SV Panope has done the hard yards of set and reset and scope shortening testing for this very Forum.

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Has Steve/Panope done a test with Steve Bedford's SuperMAX (not Australian) anchors?

-Chris

If an anchor doesn't set quick enough under a pretty good strain..it doesn't belong on my bow or stern as a primary anchor.


Single engine in a current and drawbridge filled world demands that.


If my engine quits with a strong current, I need an anchor that will tolerate an emergency drop and set with several knots speed, in up to 50 feet of water and no loving care applied.


The "let it settle" action is fine for many places, but not for many others or in conditions where it isn't gonna get a chance to settle before you need it to hold.

Ah, emergency anchoring. In some cases there isn't time to even release the anchor and what it the bottom is smooth and impenetrable. Problems.
I agree that in a perfect world you want an anchor that will stick all the time if possible.

"The "let it settle" action is fine for many places, but not for many others or in conditions where it isn't gonna get a chance to settle before you need it to hold."

The "let it settle" action does not preclude an anchor's ability to be set securely and quickly in a situation that requires that action. Personally, being a rather impatient person, I typically accelerate the setting process and use the engine to back down and set.

Steve Bedford said:

"The "let it settle" action is fine for many places, but not for many others or in conditions where it isn't gonna get a chance to settle before you need it to hold."

The "let it settle" action does not preclude an anchor's ability to be set securely and quickly in a situation that requires that action. Personally, being a rather impatient person, I typically accelerate the setting process and use the engine to back down and set.

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I have just seen comments in anchoring threads that using a power set immediately can have negative effects on setting.

While I can see that in rare cases.....an anchor that cant do what I described earlier, pretty reliably, will always be replaced by one that I believe can perform that way.

So far my recent upgrade was incrementally better than the last type of anchor I used.

I can't expect 100% performance, but I'll take as high as I can get for emergency grabbing as the parameter for my primary. I will worry about normal, sedate anchoring attributes next.

At the bridge you have a good shot at hooking a submerged power cable. Getting your anchor back may be a problem!

Steve B wrote;
"No question that some anchors almost set themselves."

This Dreadnought is the only anchor that seemed to "set itself" in my experience.
I lowered it down backing very slowly (being of the mindset that slow is best) and when the rode started to straighten out I signaled to Chris to bump up the throttle a bit. The nylon rode went straight fast and we seemed to be stopped. Another signal to Chris for more power. She responded and the rode went very straight. More power and we were obviously set as no movement was detected.
Since that experience I've wondered how the quite similar Navy anchor would perform in this way. That's the only time I've used the Dreadnought so perhaps some diver actually hooked the Dreadnought over a sunken D8 Cat's blade.
As you can see in the picture the Dread's shank is very long and heavy. I've heard this anchor has a reputation of not needing much or any chain. Not being a fan of chain that may be one of the reasons I bought it. Still have the anchor so my try it again.

Eric
That anchor looks like an artifact. LOL. As long as it works for you.

The Navy anchor works more because of weight than design to dig into the substrate. On smaller Navy vessels you see more Danforth types that don't depend as much on weight to work.

sunchaser said:

My 40 kg Vulcan is working quite well. It was my wife's recent Christmas present but she did'nt see it until March.
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You gave your wife a boat anchor for Christmas?

Are you still married to her?

On the basis of over 50 years of summer cruising including some years of 6 months a year cruising East and PNW and a interest in anchoring I have come to the conclusion that in most protected anchorages the slow set with latter confirmation is a good working method. It is common to see boats backing across an anchorage moving faster than I think useful in setting. Certainly a good fast setting anchor with high holding power is best and all anchors are called upon to reset by themselves after a wind or current change without the aid of the back down. I presently use a Ultra-original Al Spade and a Fortress . The Fortress for its ultimate holding power and the others for their all around high marks in multiple tests over more than 10 years. I have used the slow set with these anchors and previous Manson and Delta worked with all except once on a rock bottom where I should not have been trying to anchor. I also have no problem with getting in my dinghy and setting one of the aluminum anchors with short chain and light rode as a back up when expecting trouble or a swing I don't want. There may be different ways to do this anchoring thing and more than one may work. The boats backing across the anchorage well there may be more than one explanation including scope and fouled anchor with rode etc. not necessarily the anchors fault or the speed for the set. Basically my felling is a good anchor with proper scope and rode should set and current or increased wind should set it deeper and that is what happens while we sleep the back down set is in my opinion primarily to conform that the anchor is set. Once we turn off the motor deep set or not the anchor is on its own.

BigFish,
Yes it is an artifact. What led me to it was the fact that about 20 percent of the fishing fleet at Crag Alaska uses the Dreadnought to this day. Would be more I suspect if they could be found. I have no idea how long ago they stopped making them but I'll bet it was awhile ago.
When asked about it's performance one older fisherman said it works in the summer gales of 50 knots but drags some in 60 knot winter gales. My Dreadnought is 35lbs and I would'nt be inclined to use it in a gale but it were 45lbs I would.
The Navy and Dreadnought probably hold better than most of us think. They aren't burying types but they make excellent plows kinda like a bull dozer pushing lots of the bottom up in front of them. Weight certianly gets into the game but it's not all there is to it by a long shot.
I met a man that has a 50' steel trawler that has a rusty Navy anchor on his bow (not oversized) and says it works fine. Many larger fishing boats use them and the guy just mentioned goes to Alaska every year. He also has thick plastic windshield sections w no wipers and says he dosn't need them. I now have plastic windows on my Willard and no wipers also. He's right .. don't need them but they would be good at times.

Hi Eric

If it works then use it.

Funny you mentioned your guy on a 50' steel hull trawler. I met a guy with a steel trawler about 60' that used a rather large Navy anchor and asked him about it. He told me he didn't have as much faith in the anchor as he did in the amount of chain he put down which was oversized. We were in the Bahamas anchored in about 20' and he had 300 feet of chain out, he never even pulled on the anchor.

I'm an old school guy in many ways but these new design anchors I'm firmly convinced are an improvement. I believed in the original Burce and Danforth for many years and would still use them if the new stuff hadn't come out.

BTW. I like artifacts, I have an old cannon in the front yard where I keep my boat. Looks fine but not sure I would use it for defense. LOL

Use it?
I think it would work fine up to about 30 knots but I have an 18lb anchor that works extremely well w 50 knot winds. I have a winch but it's a capstan that requires considerable manhandling of the rode and anchor. Would be much harder w/o the capstan but it's not like a gypsy and chain.
Also I can't see as well fwd w that big old Dreadnought in my line if sight. In deadhead waters I'm fussy about my fwd visibility.
Now I think I have a 14lb anchor that will hold fine in a 50 knot gale and want to continue testing it.
So no I'm not going to use the big old Dread.

Here is my lightweight ground tackle.

Eric

I think that is a wise decision. I would much rather manhandle a lighter anchor than a heavier anchor if both will do the same job.