Insurance rate went up - no claims

Cross posted on several forums to get a wide range of responses -


I have owned our big boat since Feb. 2014 and we have an agreed value of $130,000. It's a 1998 Sea Ray 420AC with twin Cats.

I just got my renewal notification in the mail and my insurance rate has gone up almost $500 since last year despite having no claims.

The insurance company said it's "probably" because of the age of the boat but that doesn't make sense since it's less than 20 years old.

Anybody on the inside that may have some info that would help me make sense?

I have had several increases over the last 2 years, small.... but enough to make me wonder. Especially without major claim years due to storms around the country. and no claims or changes on my end.


I have been told many times to shop around every couple of years and switch companies to help keep the insurance companies sharpening their pencils. I jhave no idea if this is true and it takes a lot of negotiation to even try and get 2 policies so close you have a good comparison.


But I have to laugh, just the other day I heard the same advice from some lawyer on TV about switching insurance companies.


Made me stop and think....and chuckle.....


So I do have to wonder ....as my few friends in the insurance business did they did internally check around every now and then to see if they could get me a better deal.


So I wonder if because insurance is like legalized betting who wins, them or you, maybe they just keep upping the ante till they think you will walk away from the table.

When you refer to "insurance company" are you referring to your agent?
In my experience, agents are aware of the trends of insurance price and can shed light on a question like this. Perhaps you asked the wrong person...
You might consider shopping the policy with other insurance companies. That could give you an idea about whether or not the price is inline with the market.
Be aware that not all insurance is the same though. I am not qualified to suggest what to look for. Just be aware and do your research...
Bruce

Greetings,
Mr. K9. NOT an insider but it may be time to find another insurer. The use of the term "probably" suggests to me that your agent/company does not underwrite marine policies as a major part of their trade.
I would press your company for a definitive reason for the increase or start shopping. Just my $.02...

It's through Ski Safe and when I bought the boat it was the cheapest by at least $2000.

The first year I paid around $2200, the second year $1980 and now almost $2500.

Shouldn't be jumping around that much....


Never heard of Ski Safe....do you know the or next level of underwriter?

It looks like Axis is the underwriter.

k9medic said:

It's through Ski Safe and when I bought the boat it was the cheapest by at least $2000.

The first year I paid around $2200, the second year $1980 and now almost $2500.

Click to expand...

That seems quite high to me. Any additional ins. you are paying for?

I use NBOA (Progressive)

Not familiar with Axis...maybe someone else here has them and can comment.


I think it is important to insure with firms that are more familiar with boating. Sure most all pay for the little stuff...but what they require of you and how they handle big claims will ultimately be the reason you have it.


My agent is a long term licensed captain and seafarer who works for Marks Marine Insurance. Marks owner, gave me a free membership to the Great Loop Association for a year (not sure if it is every year...kinda doubt it).


Marks gets the policy through New Hampshire who also provides to Sea Insure (Sea Tow).


Ultimately AIG.


So it helps to know the levels you will be dealing with when using your insurance.


I just noted my policy offers a $100 more this year for Hurricane hauling...little things do change and I guess if enough so will your premium. But $200+ changes like RT posted should really be explainable better than "the cost of doing business".

Just had that conversation with my broker yesterday. Got my renewal through the mail with an increase of 27%. I asked for an explanation. Broker spoke to the underwriter and called me back to tell me that Bahamas coverage went up significantly. If I dropped the Bahamas my rates would go down. Since I am going there for three months I can't do that.
So I asked them to shop my policy around. They came back with the suggestion to go with the policy as is, and then cancel Bahamas coverage when I get back and the policy would reduce. Told them I would think about that but in the meanwhile shop me around.

menzies said:

Just had that conversation with my broker yesterday. Got my renewal through the mail with an increase of 27%. I asked for an explanation. Broker spoke to the underwriter and called me back to tell me that Bahamas coverage went up significantly. If I dropped the Bahamas my rates would go down. Since I am going there for three months I can't do that.
So I asked them to shop my policy around. They came back with the suggestion to go with the policy as is, and then cancel Bahamas coverage when I get back and the policy would reduce. Told them I would think about that but in the meanwhile shop me around.

Click to expand...

Even out of Hurricane season?

Man, these guys can really piss you off.

Except for hurricanes, what has changed going to the Bahamas for the last 20 years? Less chance of drug thugs robbing you?

Just ain't right.....unless someone can explain the new found risk....

Be aware it is very likely that if you change carriers, the new one may require a new survey. You'll need to do the math on how many years would it take to break even again.

Tom.B said:

Be aware it is very likely that if you change carriers, the new one may require a new survey. You'll need to do the math on how many years would it take to break even again.

Click to expand...

I'm seeing this now as I get quotes back. UGH!!! My survey is 3 years old but it's too old according to most. That means another $2K for a haul out and survey...

Would not the mere fact of traveling to a far away location increase rates due to exposure to more perils? My carrier has specific and listed geographical limits. A few years ago when I asked my carrier about traveling to Hawaii and beyond the rates for that specific vessel increased significantly vs staying coastal.

Our very own Pau Hana could likely jump in on this subject. Nothing like a pro.

psneeld said:

Just ain't right.....unless someone can explain the new found risk....

Click to expand...

No new-found risk. Just a new-found excuse.

It drives me nuts when insurance companies use large claim events as excuses to raise rates. They are in the business of paying those kind of claims, not just taking our premiums.

It's like fuel surcharges. They all kicked in when fuel prices went up, but for some reason didn't go away when fuel prices dropped to record lows.

sunchaser said:

Would not the mere fact of traveling to a far away location increase rates due to exposure to more perils? My carrier has specific and listed geographical limits. A few years ago when I asked my carrier about traveling to Hawaii and beyond the rates for that specific vessel increased significantly vs staying coastal.

Our very own Pau Hana could likely jump in on this subject. Nothing like a pro.

Click to expand...

Menzies, did you add the Bahamas to your coverage, thereby triggering the increase? Or have you had Bahamas coverage all along and the rates for such went up?

State Farm added Bahamas coverage three years ago as a no charge endorsement to my policy and I did not even ask for it.

Suspect more than a little of the rate increase is due to Hurricane Matthew.

It's all about actuarial data, except when it isn't. lol

Insurance companies claim one day that it's about the long term history and the fact there hasn't been a huge storm doesn't change that much, but then along comes a hurricane, first in years. They pay out claims. Up go rates. Some more than others.

Another "law" of insurance or really many things. When you go out and find the cheapest, it's likely to have significant increases at some point. They can't long term remain less than everyone else, nor do they really want to be substantially less.

I've also found the larger the insurer, the less volatile the rates, because they're impacted less by a single event or by a single part of the country or the world.

I do encourage all to have a good broker working on their behalf and suggesting to me to drop parts of my coverage isn't what I want from my broker. I live 50 nm from the Bahamas so not going to drop it. I live in FL so not going to drop it.

Donsan said:

Suspect more than a little of the rate increase is due to Hurricane Matthew.

Click to expand...

But why? It's not the first to hit the Bahamas, and won't be the last. This is sort of the definition of "risk". They act surprised when one hits. It's not a surprise, it's the business they are in.

twistedtree said:

But why? It's not the first to hit the Bahamas, and won't be the last. This is sort of the definition of "risk". They act surprised when one hits. It's not a surprise, it's the business they are in.

Click to expand...

It was a big powerful storm that went right through the middle of the Bahamas, not around the fringes as many track. It is a risk before the event. After the event, they reassess risk but certainly they use it as an excuse to raise rates not just for boats but for all properties. Some places on the northeast coast of FL still haven't completely recovered after 3 months. Keep in mind the OP was lamenting over FL and not the Bahamas.

twistedtree said:

But why? It's not the first to hit the Bahamas, and won't be the last. This is sort of the definition of "risk". They act surprised when one hits. It's not a surprise, it's the business they are in.

Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with the Bahamas. Could be half a continent away. It goes like this:

Profits miss projections, down 5%. Executive meetings. We must raise rates to recover the losses.

Simple. No discussion saying, but let's look at the history, we've done quite well. No discussion saying, but this area wasn't even impacted. Simply income not what we want, raise rates.

That's why I said, it's all actuarial, until it isn't. That's the same reason rates in South Florida went up after Sandy. Sandy didn't come close to FL.

Plus...many insurance policies for people outside of the southeast have navigational limits that CHANGE during hurricane season...so like I posted before....hurricanes aren't the risk issue if you have to be outa there anyhow.

twistedtree said:

Menzies, did you add the Bahamas to your coverage, thereby triggering the increase? Or have you had Bahamas coverage all along and the rates for such went up?

Click to expand...

Always had it - coverage to the Turks.

Tom.B said:

Be aware it is very likely that if you change carriers, the new one may require a new survey. You'll need to do the math on how many years would it take to break even again.

Click to expand...

Just had a survey last February.

BandB said:

Has nothing to do with the Bahamas. Could be half a continent away. It goes like this:

Profits miss projections, down 5%. Executive meetings. We must raise rates to recover the losses.

Simple. No discussion saying, but let's look at the history, we've done quite well. No discussion saying, but this area wasn't even impacted. Simply income not what we want, raise rates.

That's why I said, it's all actuarial, until it isn't. That's the same reason rates in South Florida went up after Sandy. Sandy didn't come close to FL.

Click to expand...

However in Florida any rate increases need to be approved. i did not read anything on this recently.

I wonder if I can get a line by line breakdown of my premium to compare years.

menzies said:

However in Florida any rate increases need to be approved. i did not read anything on this recently.

I wonder if I can get a line by line breakdown of my premium to compare years.

Click to expand...

You should be able to. You should have received that with the policy. I do have line by line, would never purchase without it.

Are you sure rate increases on marine insurance require approval? If they do, it's very minimum, not at all like property and auto.

Insurance co's like to get you in with a low rate, then sneak them up over time hoping you will just pay it. Most will just pay it.

Boat insurer: Charge as much as you can, payout as little as possible, raise rates as often as possible.

Health Insurer: Charge as much as possible. Deny claim if at all possible. Payout as little as possible if claim is valid. Deny as much medical testing as possible, deny expensive drugs and use least expensive drugs (doesn't matter which is better for the disease), avoid chronic diseases, get the patient well quickly or pray for a fast death. Raise rates as often as possible.

Oh my I'm such a cynic.

hmason said:

Boat insurer: Charge as much as you can, payout as little as possible, raise rates as often as possible.

Health Insurer: Charge as much as possible. Deny claim if at all possible. Payout as little as possible if claim is valid. Deny as much medical testing as possible, deny expensive drugs and use least expensive drugs (doesn't matter which is better for the disease), avoid chronic diseases, get the patient well quickly or pray for a fast death. Raise rates as often as possible.

Oh my I'm such a cynic.

Click to expand...

A cynic? Maybe not so much. Perhaps a realist.