Water heaters

Goldenstar38 said:

It's time to replace my water heater and in looking at what's available, I see units from Whale, Kuuma and West Marine, but they all seem to be virtually identical. Is this because they are the same units, or just the result of design limitations?

Looking at the lower cost units at this time only, up to say $350.00. Thank you.

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I agree with Bay Pelican's advice to use what fits best. In my case, it was one of those ubiquitous 11G Kuuma/Force (IIRC) square SS water heaters. It replaced the original 1977 water heater and it fit perfectly. Mine was on the low end of the budget at $350-400 also. That was 8 years ago and it's been fine. It was one of my easier mods/repairs since it fit in so nicely with no real need for adaptation.

Incidentally, I removed the temp compensating valve to allow dangerously hot water that lasts much longer than before removing it. Just thought I'd mention it as a possible way to extend hot water duration. It's effective for adults who know about it but could be dangerous for children. I plan to reinstall the valve for safety reasons before selling FlyWright.

Let us know what you decide to buy.

Just to make it clear for people unfamiliar....not directed at anyone in particular.....just those that aren't positive...

There are valves that regulate engine heated water from heating the water in the tank above their regulated temp.....and there are mixing valves that regulate the water temp coming out of the water heater.



Make sure you know what you have and whether you really want to change it.

What is the life expectancy of a quality tank. Mine is 29 y/o . I swapped out the 240vac element 16 years ago for a 115 vac as I had a couple of places that didn't have 240service at the dock.
The unit runs great, I'm just wondering about age and when it will fail.
I swapped out my perfectly fine refrigerator last year because I was R/Ring my saloon windows and since they were out.....

Timely discussion for me.
We will be closing on the 1985 35' Senator ( fly bridge sedan) before the new year. One of the survey items is a corroding 1700 series Raritan. No leaks yet and it works, probably the original. The owner is going to supply a new one of my choice. He suggests a 11gal Atwood. I like the Isotemp spa as discussed here. AC/DC 115, 750watt. My other thought is to just replace the Raritan. I like glass or SS tanks and not exited about the Aluminum. Also my Genset is a 3.5 KW NextGen. Old Norcold refrigerator and new Mermaid HVAC heat pump.
Use will mostly SOLO, sometimes two and on shore power as little as practical.

CWO, don't settle for the Atwood, it is not an equal replacement for the Raritan.
That said it's not worth killing the deal over. If he won't spring for a Raritan or Isotherm, get him to give you a price reduction and buy the water heater you want.

Thanks HopCar. My thoughts also.
I am leaning towards the ISOTERM. How big?

Depends which size u get in gallons but my 8 gallon isn't much bigger than the old sure 6.

Nice thing with thevisotherms, you can deck or bulkhead mount, rotate to accommodate better plumbing fit and the mounts keep it off the deck where the square ones you need to build runners for or they may sit in water and corrode through the bottom.

mbevins said:

What is the life expectancy of a quality tank. Mine is 29 y/o .
The unit runs great, I'm just wondering about age and when it will fail.

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Here is an approach I took. I replaced an older water heater before it leaked. My justification was that I was not selling the boat in the next few years, that sooner or later I would be replacing the water heater, and that any decent water heater I bought now would easily last until the end of my ownership of the boat.

Thus I bought a new water heater and installed it at my convenience, at the dock (I am usually not at a dock) with plenty of access to plumbing supplies. Did I buy it a few years early, likely. But it is likely that I will never have to worry about it again. Worth the carrying charges on a $300 item.

In reality, like even home water heaters, some people might get 30 years out of one, others less than 10.

My wild a**ed guess would average around 15 for the cheaper aluminum tank ones and maybe 20 for the nice glass lined or stainless. Some might last longer but get replaced out of convenience or the exterior or wiring or maybe even parts force early retirement.

HopCar said:

I like to avoid water heaters with aluminum tanks which most of the cheap ones have. I once cut open an aluminum water tank and the jelly like slime that was in there was disgusting.

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ranger42c said:

The slime comment is concerning; I haven't noticed anything like that, at least from normal use... What would cause it? Why associated with aluminum?

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CWO KPM said:

I like glass or SS tanks and not exited about the Aluminum.

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HopCar said:

CWO, don't settle for the Atwood, it is not an equal replacement for the Raritan.

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psneeld said:

My wild a**ed guess would average around 15 for the cheaper aluminum tank ones and maybe 20 for the nice glass lined or stainless. Some might last longer but get replaced out of convenience or the exterior or wiring or maybe even parts force early retirement.

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What is it about aluminum that's not good?

Ours is an Atwood with aluminum tank; I'm not religiously wedded to it... but it's worked fine for 14 years now. I've had to replace the ECO and thermostat, twice, once semi-early on and then once again about 5 years later.... but that's not closely related to the material of the tank.

So what's bad about aluminum? What's the "jelly" and have I got some? What causes it? What's a (temporary?) fix? Does it not exist in a stainless tank?

Why is stainless better? And then, too... ref "nice glass-lined"... glass-lined what?

-Chris

CAUSE....... In a few isolated parts of the United States where the water supply has a relatively high
pH (8+), water conditions will react with the aluminum anode to form excessive
amounts of aluminum hydroxide on the anode and in the bottom of the tank.
Aluminum hydroxide looks like “jelly beads” or a green, blue or gray gel like substance
in the heater drain or at faucet aerators.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...in14.pdf/RK=0/RS=0ejHZJPTC5ogR52lNgy7QI7mhpU-

Not sure why aluminum tanks without the anode still forms this stuff.

Glass lined tanks ....few have them.

Ah. Thanks, appreciate the ref.

Haven't seen evidence of that, but haven't looked closely at the drain (just a standard spigot), and no noises... but I'll check that when we start up again. Or maybe we're not in one of those "isolated parts of the United States..." Don't have an anode. In cases where the stuff forms even without an anode (if that happens?), maybe the tank material itself acts anodic?

So (good) stainless is better 'cause no jelly? (OK.) Or other reasons, too?

Glass-lined any kind of tank? Stainless, aluminum, whatever? Added insulation, I take it? I guess if not common, not a big deal...

-Chris

Thanks for all of the replies and suggestions.
I have finally been able to read them today and will make a final decision soon.
One comment made the most sense to me though. As I may not keep the boat too much longer (I would like to upgrade in the next couple of years) I may just go with a name brand, lower cost unit.

For what it's worth... Aluminium DOES cause Alzheimer's: Chris Exley says new findings confirm link | Daily Mail Online

Bay Pelican said:

Here is an approach I took. I replaced an older water heater before it leaked. My justification was that I was not selling the boat in the next few years, that sooner or later I would be replacing the water heater, and that any decent water heater I bought now would easily last until the end of my ownership of the boat.

Thus I bought a new water heater and installed it at my convenience, at the dock (I am usually not at a dock) with plenty of access to plumbing supplies. Did I buy it a few years early, likely. But it is likely that I will never have to worry about it again. Worth the carrying charges on a $300 item.

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I agree. On the list it goes.

RT Firefly said:

For what it's worth... Aluminium DOES cause Alzheimer's: Chris Exley says new findings confirm link | Daily Mail Online

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I'm doomed. Almost 70 years of food cooked in aluminum pots and pans... and now this pesky aluminum hot water tank... I'm doomed.

I forget what the word "doomed" means. Forgot my name, too. Hmmm...

I couldn't figure out how to find "Page 3" on the online version of the Daily Mail. (Many, especially males, will know Page 3 was always the first page to check out...

-Chris

RTF

That Al and Alzheimer's study was done on rats, politicians and nefarious Russian hackers. Al makes them all crazy, mean and forgetful.

sunchaser said:

RTF

That Al and Alzheimer's study was done on rats, politicians and nefarious Russian hackers. Al makes them all crazy, mean and forgetful.

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Such terrible things to do to rats.

Well, we don't differ much from Rats

dhmeissner said:

Well, we don't differ much from Rats

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Some of our modern biologic medicines, monoclonal antibodies, are are made from mice.

"Slime" found in a boat's water system is likely aluminum chloride. This stuff is leached out of the aluminum alloy found in most recreational boat's water tanks by the reaction of the alloy with hypochlorite (AKA bleach) added to most city water systems. Fill your boat's water tank from city water-you get chlorinated. And your water tanks (including your water heater, if aluminum), form milky "slime". The stuff's harmless, but does plug filters regularly. More important, the leach sites form corrosion pockets that lead to premature failure of aluminum water tanks.

Regards,

Pete

jungpeter said:

"Slime" found in a boat's water system is likely aluminum chloride. This stuff is leached out of the aluminum alloy found in most recreational boat's water tanks by the reaction of the alloy with hypochlorite (AKA bleach) added to most city water systems. Fill your boat's water tank from city water-you get chlorinated. And your water tanks (including your water heater, if aluminum), form milky "slime". The stuff's harmless, but does plug filters regularly. More important, the leach sites form corrosion pockets that lead to premature failure of aluminum water tanks.

Regards,

Pete

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Thanks Pete, I've seen the slime but never knew what caused it.

When I bought the Gulfstar it had a Home Depot hot water tank with brass fittings. I went take a good look at it, not easily done, and one of the brass fittings broke off in my hand. I replaced it with a Raritan 12 gallon unit from Defender and for no extra cost sent me one with the heat exchanger to run off the engines. The 12 gallon unit takes care
Of myself, my wife and one guest if we're careful. $800

Shoalwaters said:

There are electric tankless water heaters. Would like to hear more.

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They tend to draw to much current. Unless you set up a dedicated power cord for one.

CAUSE....... In a few isolated parts of the United States where the water supply has a relatively high
pH (8+), water conditions will react with the aluminum anode to form excessive
amounts of aluminum hydroxide on the anode and in the bottom of the tank.
Aluminum hydroxide looks like “jelly beads” or a green, blue or gray gel like substance
in the heater drain or at faucet aerators.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV...2lNgy7QI7mhpU-

Not sure why aluminum tanks without the anode still forms this stuff.



Atwood claims their water heaters with the aluminum tanks will not do this and require no anodes? Hhmmm.

Goldenstar38 said:

Atwood claims their water heaters with the aluminum tanks will not do this and require no anodes? Hhmmm.

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I can attest, no anode. Haven't ever seen evidence of slime/jelly/etc... but then I haven't ever cut the thing open to examine the insides, either.

Our normal water supply is well water, so no city chlorine treatments. We do fully commission the whole fresh water system in Spring -- which means a temporary clean-out and freshening with a dose of chlorine, but that's rinsed out relatively quickly. Thereafter, we just cycle fresh water through the system often (seldom attach to the shore water inlet).

I have no idea about relative costs -- Atwood vs. Isotherm or Raritan or whatever -- and haven't worked with any of those others, so can't really compare the build quality or mechanics and so forth.

-Chris

Goldenstar38 said:

CAUSE....... In a few isolated parts of the United States where the water supply has a relatively high
pH (8+), water conditions will react with the aluminum anode to form excessive
amounts of aluminum hydroxide on the anode and in the bottom of the tank.
Aluminum hydroxide looks like “jelly beads” or a green, blue or gray gel like substance
in the heater drain or at faucet aerators.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV...2lNgy7QI7mhpU-

Not sure why aluminum tanks without the anode still forms this stuff.



Atwood claims their water heaters with the aluminum tanks will not do this and require no anodes? Hhmmm.

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Because they are made with Alcoa Alclad aluminum sheet metal.
https://www.corrosionpedia.com/definition/65/alclad

ranger42c said:

I'm doomed. Almost 70 years of food cooked in aluminum pots and pans... and now this pesky aluminum hot water tank... I'm doomed.

I forget what the word "doomed" means. Forgot my name, too. Hmmm...

I couldn't figure out how to find "Page 3" on the online version of the Daily Mail. (Many, especially males, will know Page 3 was always the first page to check out...

-Chris

Click to expand...

Facts About Aluminum –Â*Pure Water Products, LLC

Cities purify tap water with aluminum sulphate.
So everyone is exposed. Aluminum is an unnecessary contaminant of food and water.

I have read Chlorella binds to metals in your body and removes them.
http://naturalsociety.com/proper-heavy-metal-chelation-cilantro-chlorella/
http://www.thehealthgladiator.com/the-truth-about-chlorella/

This one is made in the USA and about cheapest you can buy for weight.
Not in capsules so it is like a green dust. I found mixing with apple sauce is ok. By itself It is like eating green fine gritty dust with a muddy flavour which no one would want to eat. But it is really good for your health.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WA9HQ06/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

FlyWright said:

.................... Incidentally, I removed the temp compensating valve to allow dangerously hot water that lasts much longer than before removing it. Just thought I'd mention it as a possible way to extend hot water duration. It's effective for adults who know about it but could be dangerous for children. I plan to reinstall the valve for safety reasons before selling FlyWright..

Click to expand...

Ultra hot water can hurt adults as well as children.

The valves go on the output of the heater. The valve mixes the extremely hot water from the water heater with unheated water to reduce the temperature to a safe level. This is no different than mixing it at the faucet but it eliminates the possibility of scalding if someone doesn't know or forgets.

If your engine has been running for a few hours, untempered hot water could be 180 degrees.

WesK said:

Ultra hot water can hurt adults as well as children.
.

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Wes

Nobody disputes what you are saying. Count me as one though that can adjust the cold and hot water valves in the head, showers or sink to suit my needs. I especially like the separate water valves at the transom shower after taking a dip in the cold North Pacific.