"Proven Cruising Grounds" Monahan/Douglass

Has anyone anyone used this book: Proven Cruising Routes: Precise Courses to Steer: Seattle to Ketchikan

http://www.amazon.com/Proven-Cruising-Routes-Precise-Ketchikan/dp/0938665499/ref=lh_ni_t

The only comment on Amazon is that a waypoint was off, and he suspects others to be likewise. I'm looking for*a good guide for that route, so any and all comments are welcome.

Thanks.

Wakeybake:

After 16 years of boating in the PNW, I wouldn't invest in another Douglass "guide".

The "proof readers" at Fine Edge don't seem to catch the mistakes, that show up in the First Edition of his books.* I guess that is why the Second Edition shows up on the book shelves so quickly after the First Edition.

The route "Seattle to Ketchikan" is pretty straightforward.* Follow the Inside Passage northbound, and take an alternate westerly route on the return, reconnecting with the IP to*use the fuel and water stops as necessary.

Just*follow the "ditch" North from Seattle to Port Hardy or Port McNeill, and then hang a right, and "Wally", if you can avoid hitting an island, you're in Ketchikan.***

The Coastal Pilot 8 sums it up very nicely, "Let the Chart be your guide"...* so be sure to get the charts.*

The boaters who frequent this board are capable of providing the information you may need.* PM me if you want boating forum info.

It's a fun trip!

OS

wakeybake wrote:
Has anyone anyone used this book: Proven Cruising Routes: Precise Courses to Steer: Seattle to Ketchikan

The only comment on Amazon is that a waypoint was off, and he suspects others to be likewise. I'm looking for*a good guide for that route, so any and all comments are welcome.

Click to expand...

*I haven't seen this publication.* But I wouldn't rely on any one guidebook.* And I wouldn't rely on any waypoints given in such a publication anyway.

With the existence of*charting software (assuming you have it), creating your own routes is an easy process and forces you (the navigator) to consider all aspects of the intended route, including tide/current/weather/vessel traffic and safe distances to grounding hazards.

Even when reversing an already traveled route, you need to review and modify waypoints as needed to keep from meeting boaters who may have chosen the same basic route coming the other way.* Of course, there will be some areas where you can exactly follow your reciprocal course in the absence of other traffic and relevant current.

For our cruising needs to SE Alaska, we have Waggoner, Charlie's Charts and the Douglass books, in addition to the government issued Coast Pilots/Sailing Directions.* At times, there are all opened up and reviewed.


-- Edited by Jay N on Saturday 30th of April 2011 11:23:34 AM

Hi wakeybake,

I'd agree* - I wouldn't trust waypoints listed in a book.* Even a typo could get you.

I think you benefit by making your own routes - it's a form of preparing by studying the charts.* For our first few cruises in a given area, I'd also prepare by studying the descriptions of anchorages etc in the cruising guides, with the paper charts at hand.*

Over the course of many trips, we've built up lists of Inside Passage anchorages we have experience with, or that seem that they'd work for us from reading the guides.* We generally include brief comments on those we've tried.* They're organized in groups by area, and roughly in a sequence in which we might travel.* Often we'll check our anchorage list when deciding where to head the next day, without having to dig back into the cruising guide and sort out possible anchorages again.*

If you'd like copies, I could send them (Word files) to your email address.

Richard:

... or, you could be a really good guy and post 'em here for all* our benefit, too.

I know, I know, ... if I am in one of your anchorages when you arrive, I have to leave.

OS

*

*

OK - here's an attempt.* Not sure how well the formatting will turn out - it's a Word "table".**

OOPS - the forum will not accept such a long post, even though it allows the Preview.*

I'll try the first page of this one.* OOPS again.* I guess it doesn't like all the stuff that comes along with a "table".* I'll see if I can get it into a workable format.

*

Sorry, I have been unable to convert it into anything that will post in a readable fashion.*

*



-- Edited by RCook on Sunday 1st of May 2011 08:25:55 AM


-- Edited by RCook on Sunday 1st of May 2011 09:24:16 AM

OK, I understand.* You're a published author, now.* I mailed you the $100.00.

U.S.Funds.

You could e-mail me the info.* I still promise to leave the anchorage when you arrive.

OOPS!* I cannot tell a lie!* I only mailed you $99.95.

You're still a good guy, Richard!

OS


-- Edited by Old_Salt on Sunday 1st of May 2011 12:06:59 PM

Thank you all for your responses. I'm glad I found this forum! Richard, I'll send you a message.

We can't have enough cruising guides. They all tell different things. Some tell about interesting things ashore, some tell all about the approach, some give pictures, some tell if the bottom is rocks or mud and some tell all about facilities ashore. Frequently we use two or even three books to scruitenize one anchorage or harbor. But the best thing about cruise guides is all the armchair cruising one can do with them. I even use my chart plotter for that*** ...including underway. Where to anchor on the return trip ect.

I have the book in question and have used it --sort of. When all waypoints had to be entered into a gps one digit at a time, the waypoints given in the book will work. For safety, you should plot the waypoints on a chart to verify their accuracy.

Now that I use Coastal Explorer on a computer, my waypoints are entered by clicking the mouse at the appropriate place on the chart, I don't actually use the numerical waypoints given in the book. I use the book as a guide to where the route could be on the chart, and then set my own route.

I have found that Douglas will set a route 'inside' of hazards that I would go 'outside' of. For instance, if a rock lies off an island, Douglas might go between the rock and the island, and I would go completely outside of the rock away from the island. If there are any errors on the chart or in the waypoint setting or in the GPS signal, I want to be in 'safe' water with room for error. In my opinion, the most dangerous thing is to go between two underwater hazards that cannot be seen. Second most dangerous is to go between a visible hazard and an unseen underwater hazard. Better to go well clear, and verify the clearance by radar and depth, if possible.

However, the book is a good reference if one has never gone 'up coast'. Do note the explanation in the book of 'safe distance' from the set waypoint to a hazard. GPS is not perfect, and the WAAS satelite is not always visible in the far north. Always note what level of GPS accuracy your unit is displaying. Also, always remember that your GPS position is likely to be more accurate than the chart, particulary when navigating away from deep water routes used by large commercial shipping. Not every rock in Northern BC and SE Alaska has been found. If you do find a 'new' rock with your keel, it might be named for your boat! Always consider the charts of the North to be approximate.

On edit 6-4-11* to correct spelling error


-- Edited by Larry H on Saturday 4th of June 2011 01:15:17 PM

wakeybake wrote:
Has anyone anyone used this book: Proven Cruising Routes: Precise Courses to Steer: Seattle to Ketchikan

*

Click to expand...

*There is a big difference between Proven Routes, and guide books.* Guide books provide a ton of information not readly available elsewhere.* Proven Routes simply give you waypoint to waypoint headings to go from A to B.* I don't see any need for someone else's* routes, since it's so easy these days to simply plot the days run with your plotter.* I wouldn't bother with the Routes book. The guide books on the other hand can be invaluable.* I have every one I can find for the Inside Passage, and even though I sometimes do the trip four times a year, I refer to them often.* I have my charts marked with anchorages I like, and note the page number in the guide right over the anchorage, so it's quick to find.* So, I'd recomend getting all the guide books you can find, but passing on the Routes.* .........Arctic Traveller

To this day, one of my families favorite cruising guides/chart book/guide book atlas combinations is Northwest Cruising.

They printed several different versions and then went out of publication for a number of years. I saw an updated version recently, but it was on thinner paper stock. We have two versions; cruising Puget Sound to Queen Charlotte Sound and the other covers South East Alaska. They were basically a chart book about 20" x 11" wire bound. Their charts include course guides which are on the play-it-safe side of the scale, but also included a considerable amount of local historical information that covered everything from area geology, local native tribes, early American, English and Spanish history of discovery in the area, and currently available boater services at various area ports, truly a wealth of information at a glance.

My son, who is now 29, and I were out for a couple of days lingcod fishing this week and he had the Puget Sound book out both nights re-reading all the information in it that he has read since he was 8 years old. I keep looking in used marine equipment stores for copies of these books, but have yet to find one. Mine are getting pretty worn now. As much as we enjoyed them, I doubt people give them up easily.

Bottom line, you can never have enough resources, chartplotter, GPS, NOAA charts, guide books, cruising atlas, etc. My rule, they all have something to offer. Use them all, but use them cautiously.

Hi,
I'm in the process of planning my route from Blaine, WA to Juneau and back. I've got a collection of the regular books, guides and charts to cover my 3 month trip. Choosing anchorages I've never been to is a bit of a crap shoot. I would appreciate it very much if you could share your documentation on the anchorages you have experienced. My email address is tom@nickelplanet.com . Thank Youi.

tomfive said:

Hi,
I'm in the process of planning my route from Blaine, WA to Juneau and back. I've got a collection of the regular books, guides and charts to cover my 3 month trip. Choosing anchorages I've never been to is a bit of a crap shoot. I would appreciate it very much if you could share your documentation on the anchorages you have experienced. My email address is tom@nickelplanet.com . Thank Youi.

Click to expand...

Along with others here I kept a blog (see below). Take a look at it and you should be able to see how we went to Juneau. This year we bypassed Juneau as we didn't want to mess with the cruise ships.

tomfive said:

Hi,
I'm in the process of planning my route from Blaine, WA to Juneau and back. I've got a collection of the regular books, guides and charts to cover my 3 month trip. Choosing anchorages I've never been to is a bit of a crap shoot. I would appreciate it very much if you could share your documentation on the anchorages you have experienced. My email address is tom@nickelplanet.com . Thank Youi.

Click to expand...

Email sent

I'd be hesitant in following anyone's routes, especially in an area with high tidal currents.
The best route would be dependent on time, currents, wind, swell, waves etc. Not a path that someone else took previously.

AusCan said:

I'd be hesitant in following anyone's routes, especially in an area with high tidal currents.
The best route would be dependent on time, currents, wind, swell, waves etc. Not a path that someone else took previously.

Click to expand...

We are planning to explore the Broughtons next summer. Can anyone suggest a guide book? Also, does anyone have favorite route information or anchorage and marina suggestions? Thanks in advance.

The Waggoner book is pretty good for the Broughtons, but the Douglass book has more detail. Route-wise, any way you cut it, you're going up Johnstone Strait. The route options before Johnstone are to pass Campbell River and go through Seymour Narrows, around Chatham Point and up Johnstone. Or, you can go through Desolation Sound, wind your way through the islands and tidal rapids and enter Johnstone from Sunderland channel. This is sometimes called the 'inside' route since it reduces your running time in Johnstone. Both routes allow you to exit Johnstone at Havana channel, and from there you're in protected waters to the Broughtons. Personally, I'd be sceptical of using waypoints other than my own, or using someone else's detailed route instructions. Best to determine your course yourself based on current conditions.

Waggoner, and the Douglass guide Exploring the South Coast of British Columbia. For tides and currents, Ports and Passes.

There are a zillion possible routes and many lovely anchorages.

Waggoner, Douglas, Charlies Charts. All good references. I don't trust any waypoints, lat long references in ANY of them. I don't use any auto route functions in any plotter.

Part of the fun is in choosing your own path. Sometimes you'll have to back track. Or not make the progress you hoped for. Sometimes you'll have to search our another anchorage. And sometimes you'll have to get up in the middle of the night, pick up the hook and move.

Don't set a geographic end goal + a calendar goal. One or the other. Be flexible.

One thing is certain. If all you do is follow the guides you'll only see the places everyone else goes to.

Love the adventure. It's so easy now with GPS & plotter.

"Slow Boat" puts out some good webinars that I will link to, these will really help to give you an overview of challenges and pleasures.

The first one I'm linking you to is Johnstone Strait and The Rapids, both are challenges but both can be handled once you know what you are doing, one of the primary references for these areas is Ports and Passes, good book to ask for Christmas:


The next vid is intro to The Inside Passage:


Here is the link to all the webinars, watch all of them, worthwhile and you will learn lots of good stuff:

Slowboat Webinars – Slowboat

As noted by others, there are a number of possible routes! Make sure you have the current year copy of the Ports and Passes book. It’s invaluable for route planning through the numerous tidal rapids.

In the Johnston Straits, AVOID running though if wind and tide oppose each other, and this includes Cape Mudge!

Don’t ever think about running the Arran Rapids at anything but slack (although it’s easy to avoid them altogether).