Vancouver to San Francisco in December

Insequent said:

Regarding time limits in WA, I thought it was a total of 6 months in any one year but in two 3 month blocks. Time between them can be as short as one day. But note that a 3 month block can be extended if the boat is having repairs being done. You just go down to the local licensing office and fill in the form, it is very straightforward.

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At 60 days you must obtain a non-resident vessel permit. Now, it gets more complicated because exemptions in registration are based on a boat registered in another state. Only boats legally registered elsewhere can get the non-resident permit. Sales tax will exempt or credit if you've paid elsewhere, but you can't get by with having paid none anywhere.

When we purchased in Washington, we registered at the time of purchase in Florida and paid Florida sales tax. Then we made sure we didn't consecutively stay in Washington over 60 days, by trips to Oregon, BC, and Alaska.

Now, add to all that the fact he's importing the boat. If he's going to keep it in California, he may be best off paying California sales tax immediately and registering there. Or, he could pay sales tax elsewhere and delay California entry.

Just get expert advice. I'd suggest a documentation company, even if not documenting.

Now, one other factor in his rush to move the boat in December. If it's in California on December 31, it will be subject to Property Tax for the year. Later entry would delay that a year.

Yes to expert, current, WA tax advice. I'm 3 years out of date. My boat was foreign registered straight after purchase in WA, a different scenario again to what you describe. I was exempt in WA for the purchase. Had I not imported the boat into Australia I could have deferred paying any tax indefinitely as the boat's entry to Australia was the tax trigger, and not date of registration.

I got curious, here's another angle from the WA Dept Revenue relating to exemptions Vessel Tax Guide

Nonresident individuals bringing a vessel into Washington
A nonresident individual who acquired a vessel of 30 feet or longer outside Washington may also purchase a one-year use permit. The nonresident individual must, however, purchase a permit from a licensed vessel dealer within 14 days of first entering Washington with the vessel.

That website also has the Non-resident Vessel Repair Affidavit form I mentioned in a previous post. See link on contents page under 'Forms'. AFAIK you can get multiple extensions provided you meet the criteria. It 'stops the clock' on the shorter permits, effectively extending their duration.

Insequent said:

I got curious, here's another angle from the WA Dept Revenue relating to exemptions Vessel Tax Guide

Nonresident individuals bringing a vessel into Washington
A nonresident individual who acquired a vessel of 30 feet or longer outside Washington may also purchase a one-year use permit. The nonresident individual must, however, purchase a permit from a licensed vessel dealer within 14 days of first entering Washington with the vessel.

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That paragraph only applies to sales/use tax, but not to registration. The cost of that permit is $500 or $800 depending on size.

It's never as simple as it looks because we're dealing with registration, sales and use tax, import into the US, California residency, and more.

BandB said:

That paragraph only applies to sales/use tax, but not to registration. The cost of that permit is $500 or $800 depending on size.

It's never as simple as it looks because we're dealing with registration, sales and use tax, import into the US, California residency, and more.

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I should probably engage with one of those experts that deal with marine tax issues. Good thing our tax laws are so simple...

MichaelB1969 said:

I should probably engage with one of those experts that deal with marine tax issues. Good thing our tax laws are so simple...

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That's what happens when you have 50 states all with different laws.

I don't mean to dissuade you, but here's a video I took 3 years ago while taking a 60' x 15' beam boat from Seattle to Stockton, CA. This was in June. We had planned for a 6 day trip but it took us 9 due to weather delays.

I'd give some serious thought to going along with the recommendations you're getting to not do the trip in December. Life's too short to spend it with King Neptune in Davy Jones' Locker.

MichaelB1969 said:

I should probably engage with one of those experts that deal with marine tax issues. Good thing our tax laws are so simple...

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Pacific Maritime Title is who you want to call on all things title related, including taxes, permits, etc. Kim George is my go-to gal.

Address: 655 NE Northlake Way, Seattle, WA 98105
Phone: (206) 632-4668

+1 for Pacific Maritime Title. Great little group of people.

MichaelB1969, have you made a decision yet? You haven't indicated your personal level of experience, but there are alot of very experienced people stating very strong reasons not to undertake the trip in December.

But just to give you my input:
I made the trip from Seattle to Los Angeles, as captain (500 ton license) of a 65ft steel motorboat that had recently returned from a trip to Australia. I made the trip in early May but got hit off the coast of Northern Oregon with un-forecast weather. 3 straight days running before 25-30 ft seas, hand steering with a crew of 3. We stayed in constant contact with USCG during the trip, being handed off between stations down the coast, but could not even attempt to cross any bars..... I would never attempt during December.

So it would seem you have at least three options: (1) pay your captain his $21,000 to baby your boat for 3 months trying to make it down the coast; (2) leave it at a nice snug marina in WA until June, occasionally enjoying it with the family; or (3) pay a trucking company to ship it.

Let us know what you decide and best of luck and enjoyment to you.

I commercial fished the North Pacific, and winter is no time for a yacht unless you have a patient and weather wise skipper. Windows of good weather in winter can be a couple days a month.
Yachts with lots of windows should be prepared with ways to block up windows when broken out. I carried precut plywood as did most fishermen. Every winter the USCG rescues crews. Last Dec-Jan, I know of 2 rescues, crews saved, boats abandoned, and I don't watch the local news. Could have been more.
I've made the winter trip in my current boat but it was built for ocean service. Most yachts are not. The aft glass and sliding doors are a liability when you run in big following seas. Once the glass is gone you fill.
Years ago, I was on a navy destroyer escorting a carrier about 100 nm off Astoria. The carrier was dipping her flight deck and crashing into the waves. Thousands of gallons of water was streaming off her decks. The leading edge of the flight deck got damaged. The destroyer was mostly under water. Lota damage, too.

About 5 weeks ago two decent sized sailboats were lost off the WA and OR coasts as they transited south. Crews rescued by USCG in both cases.

The question about a life raft was raised earlier. As an aside, mine is currently being repacked. It was purchased a few years ago for our vessel delivery from Sausilito to Seattle prior to our purchase. These types of details are worth thinking about. A West Coast cruise can be fun or not. Your choice on how it goes.

On your new to you Beneteau you could easily move it to Seattle. But first, heed the advice about importing vessel to US. Once in Seattle park it at say the Salmon Bay Marina. One very accomplished TF member keeps his boat there. Maybe he'll weigh in.

The owners of the marina, the Stabberts, are veteran offshore cruisers. Recently they moved their Northern Marine to Honolulu for the winter, dodging weather all along the coast until they turned SW for the Islands.

The Stabberts offer ship based transportation services. They could assist you in the entire trip planning whether getting the vessel ready, crew selection or weather forecasting. So many options and tasks. Is it too late to suggest buying a US Documented vessel that is ocean ready?

Might want to check on shipping your new boat on a cargo vessel set up for moving boats. If that isn't feasible, park it in BC for the winter, maybe Sydney, then take her down in the spring.
Assuming your a Ca. Resident, you will eventually pay the tax man one way or the other. Unless you do like me and park it in Oregon, just need to pay attention to time limits in other states. The state tax guys are extremely diligent.
Good luck.

Oregon. Now there's a possibility. Look into having her trucked Olympia Wa to Longview Wa or Astoria Or. Just might be affordable, you'll beat the Wa state tax deadline and you can cruise the Columbia River during your winter breaks. I suggest Longview if they have the facilities to take her off the truck. The lower Columbia can be truly nasty in winter.

Thanks everyone for the input and guidance. I plan on speaking with my broker today to discuss this with him. However, it certainly does seem like a bad idea to bring it down the coast now.

The Captain I am speaking to is a retired Canadian Coast Guard guy who has good experience, but not necessarily along this route. He's made the trip a few times, and I haven't had a long discussion with him yet, just email correspondence. So not sure what time of year he made those trips. He is requiring that the boat have a liferaft, EPIRB, immersion suits, etc. Since he isn't a full time delivery captain, he probably has a bit more flexibility to take his time waiting out weather windows without running into other jobs. Of course, on my dime.

This morning I spoke to a more experienced west coast delivery captain (who has actually taken a 44 Swift down the coast) that I was referred to via a Trawler Forum member, and he said he doesn't even do deliveries like this anymore after November 1st. He did allude to the fact that given enough time he could probably do it during this time of year, but as a professional delivery captain it isn't feasible to be sitting around for a completely unpredictable length of time waiting for the weather to cooperate. He recommended waiting until Spring.

Anyway, seems like the better option is to bring it to WA and wait it out or have it trucked down.

I spoke to the guy at Dudley Boat Transport this morning as well (thanks for the referral) and he is checking out options that might not require the flybridge to be removed.

Will let everyone know what I end up doing.

Thanks again for the help!!!

Mike

MichaelB1969 said:

Thanks everyone for the input and guidance. I plan on speaking with my broker today to discuss this with him. However, it certainly does seem like a bad idea to bring it down the coast now.

The Captain I am speaking to is a retired Canadian Coast Guard guy who has good experience, but not necessarily along this route. He's made the trip a few times, and I haven't had a long discussion with him yet, just email correspondence. So not sure what time of year he made those trips. He is requiring that the boat have a liferaft, EPIRB, immersion suits, etc. Since he isn't a full time delivery captain, he probably has a bit more flexibility to take his time waiting out weather windows without running into other jobs. Of course, on my dime.

This morning I spoke to a more experienced west coast delivery captain (who has actually taken a 44 Swift down the coast) that I was referred to via a Trawler Forum member, and he said he doesn't even do deliveries like this anymore after November 1st. He did allude to the fact that given enough time he could probably do it during this time of year, but as a professional delivery captain it isn't feasible to be sitting around for a completely unpredictable length of time waiting for the weather to cooperate. He recommended waiting until Spring.

Anyway, seems like the better option is to bring it to WA and wait it out or have it trucked down.

I spoke to the guy at Dudley Boat Transport this morning as well (thanks for the referral) and he is checking out options that might not require the flybridge to be removed.

Will let everyone know what I end up doing.

Thanks again for the help!!!

Mike

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Game. Set. Match.

More importantly, kudos to you Mike, for reaching out for information and actually digesting said information with a logical, methodical approach.

Pete

Pau Hana said:

Game. Set. Match.

More importantly, kudos to you Mike, for reaching out for information and actually digesting said information with a logical, methodical approach.

Pete

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Double Kudos for listening even when the answers were not the ones he was hoping for.

I'll be watching this one, most of the boats I am looking at are up near Seattle. I too have to transport either on bottom or truck.

Hi Mike, It seems you have heeded the advice of those on TF. Lots of great advice. I have done the trip from Oakley to the Columbia River in mid-October. I had a 3-day window that shrank to 2 days and it wasn't fun. It took the wife and I, 3 days and 2 nights to do the trip, 780 miles. Crossing the Columbia River bar was the worse. If a weather window is open it can also fast.


Good to see you are willing to wait. The worse thing you could do is to be on a schedule, especially this time of year. If you still want to take it down the coast, start looking at weather windows in April-May time frame.


BTW Welcome.

Seattle would be much preferred so that when we did visit the boat we wouldn't have to deal with customs.

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If you close on this boat in Dec and plan to move it to Cal in May, how much visiting would you do? Might be easier to moor in Van for 5 months and skip the Wa tax headaches.

Quick update. Seems like trucking it is a pretty good option. Cost is about $8,400 from Tacoma to the Bay Area. And that is without removing the bridge, which is great!

Cost is pretty close to what bringing it down the coast would have run once you take into consideration the cost of the captain, fuel and provisions. In fact, if you add in the extra safety gear I would have had to buy for the trip south, it's actually a less extensive option. I would have eventually had to buy some of the safety gear, but still.

Special thanks to Stabi for pushing me to further investigate the trucking option.

Best,
Mike

Mike, FWIW I had Dudley deliver a 40' sailboat from SoCal to Tacoma back in 2010. They were great to work with.

Stabi said:

Well you will never know unless you ask. I would call Dudley Boat Transport and/or Associated Boat Transport, both out of WA and find out if in fact the bridge needs to be removed. They will know, and if doable give you a firm price. Both have stellar reputations.

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Who did you end up getting your bid from?

Michael,

What a good (better) option. Shrink wrap in Tacoma and unwrap a pristine clean boat at home. No strangers operating (perhaps unknowingly abusing) your systems, putting in new scratches, etc. If it were me, I would ship it.

Best Wishes

Jeff

bshillam said:

Who did you end up getting your bid from?

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Quote is from Associated Boat Transport. Waiting on Dudley. For what it's worth, the experience dealing with the two has been night and day. I had a quote from Associated which included insurance, permits, etc., in 5 minutes. The woman there was responsive, patient, answered all my questions, etc.

Without going into details, let's just say the experience with Dudley has been the opposite. I'm sure they do a good job, as they seem to have a good reputation...but so far I've been less than impressed.

Thanks,
Mike

+++1 for Associated!

MichaelB1969 said:

Quote is from Associated Boat Transport. Waiting on Dudley. For what it's worth, the experience dealing with the two has been night and day. I had a quote from Associated which included insurance, permits, etc., in 5 minutes. The woman there was responsive, patient, answered all my questions, etc.

Without going into details, let's just say the experience with Dudley has been the opposite. I'm sure they do a good job, as they seem to have a good reputation...but so far I've been less than impressed.

Thanks,
Mike

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They are both good companies, as is Piazza & Sons out of Northern California. I've dealt with all 3 for over a decade, and have been more than happy to recommend them to clients.

Most important- all 3 own their equipment, so they are not brokering out the shipment to a gypsy trucker or a Ushipper.

Spoke too soon. Looks like the bridge will need to come off. They are worried about damage from tree limbs, branches, etc. Not sure how I feel about that. Hopefully it's not huge cluster#$%&.

Shipping is less though. Without bridge removal, cost goes down to $6,500 and they can pick up in Seattle (with bridge, Seattle was higher). My assumption is it will probably run between $1,500 - $2,000 on either end, but just a guess. I may start another thread on the topic of flybridge removal to get some further insight on this.

Ideal situation is to get the same people who are going to put it back on to remove it. Many larger yards have done quite a few bridge removals. The transport company may have recommendations. This is an area to get real experience as done right you'll never know it was done, but done wrong you may have issues or leaks at some point. Bridges are removed for shipping all the time though.

BandB said:

Ideal situation is to get the same people who are going to put it back on to remove it. Many larger yards have done quite a few bridge removals. The transport company may have recommendations. This is an area to get real experience as done right you'll never know it was done, but done wrong you may have issues or leaks at some point. Bridges are removed for shipping all the time though.

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I think we are going to have CSR in Seattle do it. We plan on being there when they do it. Maybe I can have someone from CSR come down to the Bay Area to supervise as it is re-installed. Or have someone from the re-installer to see it come off in Seattle. But good idea for sure.