Shopping for New Boat... again

I've been looking for the "loop" boat for the past 6 months (posted about it a few months ago), and have learned a LOT, from this forum, looking at boats and talking with people.

Also read and re-read the Boat Shopping 101 on this forum.

Looks like my basic goals of a 32 to 42 ft. boat haven't changed much. Raised the size from a 35 to 45, and really looks like the 35 to 42 is in the spot that will work.

Have modified the Must Haves and Nice to Haves:

Absolute MUST haves:
Low speed economy cruise, and high speed option
Good engines,
Heat and Air that is modern and works excellent
WasherDryer
Full sized fridge, or options for additional fridge
Swim platform
Room for dinghy, kayak and windsurfer and bikes
Dinghy, small engine is fine
State of the art electronics, or priced accordingly
17 ft air clearance (Chicago is 18.5ft), or master that lowers
Good maintenance history.

Desirables:
Stairs, not a ladder
Excellent engine and mechanical access, especially for normal maint, like filters, hoses, seacocks, oil.
Open areas, large aft sitting cockpit area, large bridge area
===

I've looked at a few older boats, and the ones that are well maintained and modernized are really good values.

I've found the maintenance history and logs for most boats to be very poorly put together, it at all. You would think that one who owns a boat that probably cost several hundred grand and has really expensive things that can go wrong would have logs that show everything, and keeps him abreast of future maintenance.

Of the boats the look pretty good, include the Mainship, Meridian, Sabreline, Regal (one model), Grand Banks (but probably too pricy).

One thing I've done is to call some of the manufacturers of the boats, engines, and accessories to see how support is. A lot of boat mfgs are out of business and there's just no support, and a few out of business ones like the Mainship do have some good options. Carver looked pretty poor for help, but haven't ruled them out. Volvo is the worst... you can't even talk to someone there. (I've had Volvos before and sold the boat because if it).

I sure like the style of the dinghy on top of the back of the bridge with the crane to put it in the water, and would like same for my kayak. And one that easily folds down if needed.

And, yes, it's ones preferences that will make a difference, but there's some boats or engines that are great and some that are not, and after some searching I'm learning which is which.

If I'm stepping on someone's toes, please correct me, but some that I'd stay away from include the Marine Trader, Ford Lehman engine, Volvo engines.

Still have a way to go.

Some observations of your must haves and desireables:

The go fast requirement will limit you to newer, 1995+ models as before that trawlers didn't have enough power. GB made the switch to high powered go fast trawlers, Mainship and the others followed (more or less).

A washer/dryer definitely puts you into the 40'+ catagory, probably 42' minimum.

These boats will all be twins to go fast and good engines for this type of boat will be Cummins, Cats, maybe Yanmars (stay away from the 440 hp one) and yes Volvos (but rarely). The venerable Lehmans and Perkins don't have enough power to go fast even with twins.

Heat and air- Do you mean reverse cycle or do you have to have a separate diesel fueled heating system. If the latter then don't limit yourself, it can easily be added later.

Most boats will meet your air draft requirements, even some with fixed arches but radar may stick up too far on those.

Of the boats you listed the Mainship 43 and Saberline 42 fit pretty well, although it may be difficult to squeeze in a w/d on the Saberline and most are hardtops which limits room outside. The only problem with the Mainship 43 is the engines- it comes with the problematic Yanmar 440s. The Meridian and Regal are express cruisers and look too much like Clorox bottles to me.

Good luck on your search.

David

Take a look at the Carver, John Baker and a couple others have them with the big Cummins and love them. One of them has a well kept one for sale currently. Tom and Bess seem pretty darned happy with their Navigator 42 but not sure if any where made without the Volvo engines.

My Marine Trader has a Mercedes engine.

djmarchand said:

Some observations of your must haves and desireables:

The go fast requirement will limit you to newer, 1995+ models as before that trawlers didn't have enough power. GB made the switch to high powered go fast trawlers, Mainship and the others followed (more or less).

A washer/dryer definitely puts you into the 40'+ catagory, probably 42' minimum.

These boats will all be twins to go fast and good engines for this type of boat will be Cummins, Cats, maybe Yanmars (stay away from the 440 hp one) and yes Volvos (but rarely). The venerable Lehmans and Perkins don't have enough power to go fast even with twins.

Heat and air- Do you mean reverse cycle or do you have to have a separate diesel fueled heating system. If the latter then don't limit yourself, it can easily be added later.

Most boats will meet your air draft requirements, even some with fixed arches but radar may stick up too far on those.

Of the boats you listed the Mainship 43 and Saberline 42 fit pretty well, although it may be difficult to squeeze in a w/d on the Saberline and most are hardtops which limits room outside. The only problem with the Mainship 43 is the engines- it comes with the problematic Yanmar 440s. The Meridian and Regal are express cruisers and look too much like Clorox bottles to me.

Good luck on your search.

David

Click to expand...

David,

Good info, thx, worthy of more consideration. Gut feeling I'll definitely be 1995 or newer, so nice to fine that they have the option of higher speeds.

A washer dryer is a must after talking to a few friends that have been there. A Laundromat reminded me of my college year where I couldn't afford a pot to piss in and saved dimes for the laundry... there's NOTHING worse. I'd rather go naked than go to a Laundromat again. Hate waiting for clothes to finish or people throwing my laundry on the table. NO WAY.

But, Im hoping that I could squeeze one on a smaller boat... saw a 36 Kadey today that would have plenty of space for one, but had other things that made it a no go. We'll see, but a 40 certainly isn't out of the question.

Reverse cycle air is find... don't do cold weather boating.

CPseudonym said:

Take a look at the Carver, John Baker and a couple others have them with the big Cummins and love them. One of them has a well kept one for sale currently. Tom and Bess seem pretty darned happy with their Navigator 42 but not sure if any where made without the Volvo engines.

Click to expand...

CP,

What's a Navigator? A search come up with some big (50ft) expensive yachts, not my style, and with other than Volvo engines, and a very few 42s that look pretty nice.... need to research than a bit more, very nice boats and price right.

As a newbie, I can only harken to the RV world for experience - The folks with washer/dryer spend new 200K-300K on rigs, spending a minimum of 50K in depreciation per year for that new car smell. Thats a lot of quarters.

So are we still at the same price point as you mentioned in the first thread?

CPseudonym said:

Take a look at the Carver, John Baker and a couple others have them with the big Cummins and love them. One of them has a well kept one for sale currently.

Click to expand...

That would be me and I do love mine. Last time I called Carver they were responsive and very helpful. You need the HIN#. Try 920-822-7227. It's been awhile since I've called them. Carver went bankrupt in 2009 but emerged from bankruptcy as Marquis yachts but still building the Carver line. Their new boats look like they were designed to avoid radar detection rather than the traditional lines of a recreational motor boat.

We spent 8 months cruising the ICW north and south and used laundromats as needed. We just got into the mind set of doing it and really never thought much about it. I would never ever want to try and remove or do major repair to a washer or dryer in a boat. A dryer using 110v takes awhile.

Once you get a taste of going fast it's hard to go back. We cruised the ICW northbound mostly slow-7.5 kts but southbound with fuel at half the cost we went fast most of the time - 15-17 kts.

A fast boat requires big twin engines. Cummins are one of the best, but you better make sure the after coolers and turbo's are always in very good shape and the boat is properly propped.

I too had considered doing the loop, and I felt my boat was the perfect size to do it. But after discussions on this forum I dropped the idea. The east side has so much more that better to do that twice. However the tributaries of the Mississippi I've heard are a worthy consideration.

Good luck in your search. You are wise to consider the importance of maintenance records. It says a lot about the owner and his attitude about his vessel.

A view of mine: www.flyinlowsale.com

One thing to start getting into perspective is "model length"....

2 nearly the same length boats can have vastly different volume.

My Albin 40.....is really a touch over 39 feet per the USCG, and has a clipper bow and semi displacement hull that is hard pressed to really be semi displacement. Plus it only has around a 34 foot waterline by my very rough measurement...if anyone has that design spec, please post.

A 42 Kady Kroger next to my boat looks at least 1.5x the volume... maybe more. So things like washer/dryers will fit into those larges spaces better.

I have struggled with adding a washer/dryer, and just can't find a space it will really fit without giving up major storage or living space. Even the engine room with a single isn't really tall enough unless I get rid of my genset.

So be careful when selecting by length...and get to know the volumes of different models.

timjet said:

[/U]I too had considered doing the loop, and I felt my boat was the perfect size to do it. But after discussions on this forum I dropped the idea. The east side has so much more that better to do that twice. However the tributaries of the Mississippi I've heard are a worthy consideration.

Click to expand...

I'm very curious as to what made you drop the idea of the loop.

BandB said:

I'm very curious as to what made you drop the idea of the loop.

Click to expand...

With all due respect to Tim I'll take a stab at offering a possible interpretation of what you read.

His wife was not interested.

Not exactly the kinda thing a gentleman writes publicly.

Seevee said:

CP,

What's a Navigator? A search come up with some big (50ft) expensive yachts, not my style, and with other than Volvo engines, and a very few 42s that look pretty nice.... need to research than a bit more, very nice boats and price right.

Click to expand...

Be happy to share everything I have learned about Navigators. Yes, some were made without Volvos, but don't let that scare you off. In the year models you are looking for, you will be fine getting parts and service for them.

I don't know your price range, but here is a good YW search of the 39'-48': navigator (Power) Boats For Sale

Your biggest challenge will be that most Navigators are on the west coast, however, they are extremely efficient and roomy for their size. If you can find one near you, go take a look for sure. It really does check all your boxes.

BandB said:

I'm very curious as to what made you drop the idea of the loop.

Click to expand...

Not correct. I said the western portion of the loop. I have not done it but I have done a portion of the eastern end. What I have heard from a couple of sources is the Mississippi is somewhat industrial and if you're going to spend the time and money, better to enjoy the eastern portion twice. Just sharing an opinion from some others.

I am a lurker. Gonna be looking at boats for my swettie and I in about 3-5 years. But I look now to get an idea/dream.

I came across this one and really would be interested if I was in the market currently. Looks like it may fit your bill.

1980 Hatteras LRC Mark II
US$ 99,900

42'
Twin cabins
Washer/Dryer
Full size appliances
Twin engines of a reasonable size.


1980 Hatteras LRC Mark II Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

My apologies Tim. I read more into that than was there sir. My bad.

Greetings,
Welcome aboard Mr./Ms. IZ.

Donna said:

My Marine Trader has a Mercedes engine.

Click to expand...

Donna,

I know I mentioned that the Marine Trader wasn't perhaps the best boat. Got that info from a few friend with experience that said there were hull issues. You would know more than all of us. Are there years better than others, or is it just inspect and proceed?

No intention of insulting you!

healhustler said:

So are we still at the same price point as you mentioned in the first thread?

Click to expand...

Larry,

Assume addressed to me... now shopping in the $100 to $200 range, but for a killer deal can go higher.

timjet said:

That would be me and I do love mine. Last time I called Carver they were responsive and very helpful. You need the HIN#. Try 920-822-7227. It's been awhile since I've called them. Carver went bankrupt in 2009 but emerged from bankruptcy as Marquis yachts but still building the Carver line. Their new boats look like they were designed to avoid radar detection rather than the traditional lines of a recreational motor boat.

We spent 8 months cruising the ICW north and south and used laundromats as needed. We just got into the mind set of doing it and really never thought much about it. I would never ever want to try and remove or do major repair to a washer or dryer in a boat. A dryer using 110v takes awhile.

Once you get a taste of going fast it's hard to go back. We cruised the ICW northbound mostly slow-7.5 kts but southbound with fuel at half the cost we went fast most of the time - 15-17 kts.

A fast boat requires big twin engines. Cummins are one of the best, but you better make sure the after coolers and turbo's are always in very good shape and the boat is properly propped.

I too had considered doing the loop, and I felt my boat was the perfect size to do it. But after discussions on this forum I dropped the idea. The east side has so much more that better to do that twice. However the tributaries of the Mississippi I've heard are a worthy consideration.

Good luck in your search. You are wise to consider the importance of maintenance records. It says a lot about the owner and his attitude about his vessel.

A view of mine: www.flyinlowsale.com

Click to expand...

Timejet,

THANKS, very good info. I've always liked the Carver, has some friends that had them and was disappointed to hear they went bankrupt, but glad someone has resurrected the support of a find boat. I really need to look at yours. Will send a PM.... thx again.

Tom.B said:

Be happy to share everything I have learned about Navigators. Yes, some were made without Volvos, but don't let that scare you off. In the year models you are looking for, you will be fine getting parts and service for them.

I don't know your price range, but here is a good YW search of the 39'-48': navigator (Power) Boats For Sale

Your biggest challenge will be that most Navigators are on the west coast, however, they are extremely efficient and roomy for their size. If you can find one near you, go take a look for sure. It really does check all your boxes.

Click to expand...

Tom,

Thx for the info, looks good and I'll have to digest it.

timjet said:

Not correct. I said the western portion of the loop. I have not done it but I have done a portion of the eastern end. What I have heard from a couple of sources is the Mississippi is somewhat industrial and if you're going to spend the time and money, better to enjoy the eastern portion twice. Just sharing an opinion from some others.

Click to expand...

The Mississippi is a bit industrial but a very small part of the loop. The Illinois is around 320 miles and the Mississippi leg around 220. In between the East Coast and that you have the Canals and Five Great Lakes to choose from After the Mississippi, you have the Tennessee, then down to the Gulf. Just make sure your sources have actually done all the areas and then, obviously, make your own decision. I've never talked to anyone who has done the loop and regretted it. We intend to do it about every 5 to 7 years.

Now, none of that says anything negative about cruising the East Coast, which we love, including the area beyond the loop, on up to Boston and eventually beyond, which we haven't yet been beyond. If the Mississippi and the Inland Rivers didn't interest me (we want to do the Tennessee, Cumberland, Ohio, Missouri, and Arkansas), I would think of one summer to the Great Lakes. Sample some boating to Canada, experience the Erie canal. Sample all the lakes, the Georgian Bay, Lake Michigan, the Trent and Severn if that's for you.

There is clearly so much cruising potential that no one can ever do it all so I respect your choice, was just curious as to what it was based on.

Seevee said:

Of the boats the look pretty good, include the Mainship, Meridian, Sabreline, Regal (one model), Grand Banks (but probably too pricy).

Click to expand...

Cruisers, Silverton, and SeaRay have also made bridge boats with stairs instead of ladders.

When it comes to service, Carver at least returned from bankruptcy... but in the grand scheme of things, most of these boats are systems of systems, so things like engines, heads, pumps, etc. are off-the-shelf units... and that means service is sort of generic. And then there are owners clubs and fora like this where folks can talk you through most issues.

-Chris

Seevee said:

Donna,

I know I mentioned that the Marine Trader wasn't perhaps the best boat. Got that info from a few friend with experience that said there were hull issues. You would know more than all of us. Are there years better than others, or is it just inspect and proceed?

No intention of insulting you!

Click to expand...

Mine is a 1986. I do not have any hull issues. She was pulled out the end of August for my survey. Doesn't need bottom paint this year.

I think it is all in how you maintain a boat also. Since the hull survey came back clean, I have divers down every 4 weeks in warmer months and every 6 weeks in cooler months. They change the zincs as needed.

No, my boat isn't for sale. Just got her the way I want her! LOL!

Good list. I would add wide safe side decks for bow access. And good ground tackle.

My boat was a Carver 440 aft cabin with twin 8.3 Cummins. A good performer, easily handled,well made, and very livable. Built is washer dryer, a great feature. Solid glass bottom with a keel. Easily fits your budget.

Volume is indeed more important than length. makers started adding long pointy bows and built in pulpits to add bragging rights to buyers. Just look at a the bows of a line of boats in a marina and you will see the pointy bows.

I had data sheets, drawings, manuals wiring diagrams etc for everything on board. Literally a foot tall stack. The engine maintainance and parts manual was invaluable, The electronics manuals were helpful, the makers drawings not so much but today manuals and info for everything is on line.


Find a well maintained and updated boat that shows pride of ownership. maintainance logh are over rated IMO. Who did the work and how well is always unknown. If the ER is mostly rust free and very clean that is a good place to start. Everything newly painted white is a big red flag. Engines should look clean but used.


Economy will be argued till hell freezes over but go slow and it doesn't matter much what the brand of engine or its HP is. It takes a certain amount of power to move a boat and diesels produce about 18- 20 HP per hour regardless of brand.

Get and engine brand with great parts and service available. With few exceptions very old engines may be beginning to have parts availability problems, regardless of brand.

bayview said:

Good list. I would add wide safe side decks for bow access. And good ground tackle.

My boat was a Carver 440 aft cabin with twin 8.3 Cummins. A good performer, easily handled,well made, and very livable. Built is washer dryer, a great feature. Solid glass bottom with a keel. Easily fits your budget.

Volume is indeed more important than length. makers started adding long pointy bows and built in pulpits to add bragging rights to buyers. Just look at a the bows of a line of boats in a marina and you will see the pointy bows.

I had data sheets, drawings, manuals wiring diagrams etc for everything on board. Literally a foot tall stack. The engine maintainance and parts manual was invaluable, The electronics manuals were helpful, the makers drawings not so much but today manuals and info for everything is on line.


Find a well maintained and updated boat that shows pride of ownership. maintainance logh are over rated IMO. Who did the work and how well is always unknown. If the ER is mostly rust free and very clean that is a good place to start. Everything newly painted white is a big red flag. Engines should look clean but used.


Economy will be argued till hell freezes over but go slow and it doesn't matter much what the brand of engine or its HP is. It takes a certain amount of power to move a boat and diesels produce about 18- 20 HP per hour regardless of brand.

Get and engine brand with great parts and service available. With few exceptions very old engines may be beginning to have parts availability problems, regardless of brand.

Click to expand...

Bayview,

Good points. A maintenance log is really a good place to start, and pretty easy to verify. If one kept a log, I would suspect they had some incentive to keep up the maintenance.

Right about the volume vs. length, but a usable layout is WAY more important. I'm not a big fan of the aft cabin boats (for the most part), because I like life on the back in my swim suit when I can jump in the water at a moments notice. But some have a nice swim platform and extra space back there. However, the back "sun deck" for me would be a "wet" place with folks that just got out of the water... and that could work with an additional living room.

I'm still leaning on getting the smallest boat that will get the job done... just not sure what that would be, but looks like 35 to 40 feet or so.