Setting anchor with the windlass question

Having never had an electric windlass before I have a question about setting the anchor. *After lowering the appropriate amount of (all chain) rode I want to set the anchor. *My question is, do I need to use the snubber to set the anchor or is the windlass able to handle the load? *I could flip down the chain lock on the windlass but that would still keep the load on the windlass. *Does this matter? *My plan is to lower, set, let out the last third of rode, then snub, but I am open to correction!

Thanks,

Dave

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I let the windlass take the whole load while setting once in a stiff wind and the chain ended up jumping the gypsy.* What I like to do normally is pay out the amount of chain* for the scope I think appropriate and then tie the snub off short to take the load.* If we set then I lengthen the snub and increase the bight of slack between the chain hook and the bow roller so that the chain is hanging down into the water.

Egregious wrote:
I let the windlass take the whole load while setting once in a stiff wind and the chain ended up jumping the gypsy.* What I like to do normally is pay out the amount of chain* for the scope I think appropriate and then tie the snub off short to take the load.* If we set then I lengthen the snub and increase the bight of slack between the chain hook and the bow roller so that the chain is hanging down into the water.

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*for the most part I concur.. unless your windless is REALLY big and the windless load is spread out and well backed it isnt a great idea to load up the windless too much. On Volunteer I would set the hook with the right amount of scope, back down easily on the anchor and let it hang in gear for about a minute.. if all went well ( and even with a Bruce it almost always did ) I would then run out the snubber as mentioned above.. then crack the prerequisite beer!

Happy Anchoring

HOLLYWOOD

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OK makes sense. So let it all out, snub short, gently back it down, then run out the snubber a bit and then crack a beer. This works for me. Thanks!

Dave

All this sounds great for a light winds or less ** ....and only if that's what happens. I'd want to secure the rode for over 1000lbs pull and set the anchor semi hard (1/2 max rpm in reverse) at 4-1 scope or more, then adjust scope for the anchorage and conditions. To be really safe you'd rig for 80 knot winds every time and even that would be insufficient at some point. It's like going or not going on the weather forecast. Everyone's got a different line in the sand. If the forecast is for light and variable do we still set the drift alarm on the GPS? and after we shut down do we always close the seacock? Some folks just dump a bunch of ground tackle in the water, shut off the engine and head for the beer. Some people check the weather forecast 4 times a night and avoid the beer altogether. I'm in between and so are you*** ....but where?

nomadwilly wrote:
All this sounds great for a light winds or less ** ....and only if that's what happens.

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*I did it my way in 25kt winds about 3 weeks ago.* Of course it is only 12 feet deep and the bottom is excellent holding sand.**

What kept me awake all night was the fear of a bear swimming out and killing me.* I don't have a gun on board!* JUST JOKING.

Egregious wrote:What kept me awake all night was the fear of a bear swimming out and killing me.* I don't have a gun on board!* JUST JOKING.

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*A fish and game guy I met last week on the Keni River told me the best bear deterrent is a road flair.

Said it stops them in there track.**Even at full charge.

SD

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skipperdude wrote:Egregious wrote:What kept me awake all night was the fear of a bear swimming out and killing me.* I don't have a gun on board!* JUST JOKING.

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*A fish and game guy I met last week on the Keni River told me the best bear deterrent is a road flair.

Said it stops them in there track.**Even at full charge.

SD

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*If the road flare is one of those types that drip flaming slag I'd be very careful. The cure may be worse than the disease if not handled well.

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nomadwilly wrote:
and after we shut down do we always close the seacock?

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I'd be interested to the answer on that. I have to admit the only time we close our seacocks (5 of them) is if really bad weather is forecast, at which point we are usually on our home mooring. If we are on the boat anchored with such a forecast, I still don't close the engine one as, if we have to start up quickly in an emergency (dragging, or whatever, usually in the middle of the night), I don't want to have to deal with first opening up the engine compartment and crawling down there to open the seacock while all hell is breaking loose before I can start up and move.

I've never been a big fan of 'setting the anchor' with any help other than the prevailing wind.* I am a fan of testing the anchor once it sets if I anticipate adverse conditions overnight.* The problem with backing down on an anchor initially, IMHO, is that it may prevent the anchor from digging in as its designed to do, which works best when it is allowed to settle into the sea bed by the force of gravity and the relatively gentle tug of wind and current.*

I will typically let out most of what I feel I need for scope and if the wind doesn't do it for me, will apply just enough power astern to straighten out the chain.* I'll then go find something to do for 20 minutes or so, then put a bit of power in reverse to ensure that the hook is set.* Then the snubber for insurance and comfort and that's it.

nomadwilly wrote:
*and after we shut down do we always close the seacock?

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*Or do*we trust high bilge*alarms when we're onboard,*asleep?



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When at anchor always have the vessel ready for instant start.
I allways set the anchor for the worst weather expected, you don't want to be trying to let the snubber off and lay out more anchor chain with a strong wind blowing and
waves pounding the boat.
Use the snubber to set the pick, in my opinion don't use the windlass for this unless you have a build in chain stopper to carry the load.
After you have set the anchor you can always lay out a bit more chain, then settle and have a few coldies.

Benn

Our anchor winch*has a*drum containing 320' of SS cable attached to 40' of 3/8 chain and a 44 lb*Delta.*

There is no easy way to set/stop the cable without using the drum brake/lock (A carpenter's clamp might work, but*it would be cumbersome and dangerous).

So, the anchor is usually set at a 4-5:1 scope (hasn't*been a problem setting), then adjusted*to 3:1 for tight*quarters if needed.*

This is a robust winch, and the*drum lock is sufficient to take the strain.* It's been through 60 knot stuff without any indication of weakness or failure.*

Anchor Steam is my anchor beer of choice.

All thru-hulls open when the vessel is in operations mode.


-- Edited by Jay N on Tuesday 26th of April 2011 09:42:09 PM

I would never close the sea cocks just because I was anchored... what a p.i.t.a.!, I cannot imagine having to remember to run down into the engine room and open the cocks in a emergency. If they are going to fail I want it to happen when I am aboard. That is what they make those loud bilge alarms for..

HOLLYWOOD

dwhatty wrote

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"I don't want to have to deal with first opening up the engine compartment and crawling down there to open the seacock while all hell is breaking loose before I can start up and move."

I'd definitely roger that........

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Hollywood wrote

I would never close the sea cocks just because I was anchored... what a p.i.t.a.!, I cannot imagine having to remember to run down into the engine room and open the cocks in a emergency. If they are going to fail I want it to happen when I am aboard. That is what they make those loud bilge alarms for..

And that......

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Delfin wrote:

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I've never been a big fan of 'setting the anchor' with any help other than the prevailing wind.* I am a fan of testing the anchor once it sets if I anticipate adverse conditions overnight.* The problem with backing down on an anchor initially, IMHO, is that it may prevent the anchor from digging in as its designed to do, which works best when it is allowed to settle into the sea bed by the force of gravity and the relatively gentle tug of wind and current.*

I will typically let out most of what I feel I need for scope and if the wind doesn't do it for me, will apply just enough power astern to straighten out the chain.* I'll then go find something to do for 20 minutes or so, then put a bit of power in reverse to ensure that the hook is set.* Then the snubber for insurance and comfort and that's it.

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*And I agree basically with the above. *If you have a quick-setting anchor that's all it takes.

Any anchor that takes*1/2 revs*astern to set is one I don't want to be hanging from, sorry Eric.

*As a result I basically do what Delfin described above with the Sarca, then maybe if the forecast is a bit iffy, I might give it a tug astern after we have settled at full scope to confirm beyond doubt we have not done the freakish thing which happened once, and had a large loose rock settle on the fluke, but in that case it was obvious something was wrong as we dragged in just the current and a 5 kn breeze.

When one anchors inside reef areas or other remote areas you will always set the anchor by going astern even with a good fast setting anchor.
You would never see a large ships just drop its anchor and leave it to chance.
It's a prudent skipper that sets his anchor , then possibly lay out some more chain sit and watch for 20 or 30 mins to ensure all is well for the night or the next few days.

Benn

In most anchorages , with an anchor that is not a watch fob , just a touch of reverse is usually enough to assure the anchor is set.

We use nylon so a cleat , not the windlass gets the load .

The stern anchor should slow the drag should the fwd anchor upset.

Having actually made the mistake*many years ago*of starting the engine with a closed raw water seacock I lwill be leaving the engine key draped over the seacock handle when it is closed.

Dave

If you are really in tune with your boat and your exhaust is above the water line, you will notice that the exhaust sounds significantly different when there is no water coming out of it.....And of course you should always check for water flow.....

TO add to the anchoring comments....nobody has mentioned weighing anchor tactics...they are surprisingly similar to anchoring. I just motor up over the anchor and take the slack in with the windlass and if the anchor is being stubborn, there is no reason to put excess strain on your equipment. Just hover over the anchor in neutral with 0 scope(okay I guess it would be 1:1) and open a beer. Enjoy your beer. If there is any wind at all, the anchor will come loose whilst beer is being consumed and then bring the anchor up and off ya go!!!!!

I am getting the impression that most windlass/anchoring operations are powered by

HaHa*** ...guess I set everybody off w the 1/2 throttle in reverse! When I said that I thought "maybe that's a little extreme" but did'nt change it. For my boat w 40hp that would only be about 10hp in reverse. Carl's idea has some merritt in a way. Anchors set best very slowly but I want to know I'm hooked up solid. I stand on the bow lifting the rode (line) w my hand and note when it hits bottom. Then I don't pay out more line until Chris starts backing down so I won't pile the rode up around the anchor. When she starts to make way aft I pay out line as we go thus laying it out on the seabed. When enough scope is out I make fast to my big cleat slow my sternway to a crawl. In and out of gear. Then when I pull hard upwards on the rode between the bow roller and the cleat and feel the line as quite tight I give Chris the "up throttle" sign and she backs down. Maybe it's only 1200rpm??? I give her the "stop" sign when It seems very positively set. I guess I actually don't know what rpm it is since I'm on the bow. She never looks at the tach as she's watching my hand for the signals. We now have those anchor talkers so we won't need the hand signals. And we have the winch. And I got a 15" polished SS heavy duty cleat and 2 others for the mooring lines. I was going to get Galvies but decided on the polished SS so the line will go smoothly around the cleat using it as a brake lowering the rode down. As far as the sea cock goes it must have been another bad choice of words as I never close the seacock at anchor. Sorry.

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Old Stone wrote:Dave, if I promise to be on good behaviour, can I have your boat. She is just plain beautiful. I will keep her washed nicely!

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*Thank you for the kind words Carl, but sadly I have to say no! *

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I lightly set the anchor with windless, connect the bridle and back down to set.* Most windless can take a lot more than most think as they are rated for max pull depending on size up to 3000 lbs.* I think the Eagle is 2000 lbs.* So why cant a windless take some reasonable strain/pull?* **
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When at dock or anchor all the below water through hulls are closed.* I also start the engine in the engine room, and visually double check things before starting.* The main battery switch are off also so the engines can not be started.

Seacocks are not meant to be closed. Ever!
When I had a survey done (Insurance Co request) a few years ago the surveyor commented that he could work the seacocks on my boat. this was unusual, as most boats he surveyed, the seacocks hadn't moved since the last surveyor tried them. Mine worked only because I knew I would be getting a survey, so I worked them to be sure he would be able to.
I would never close a seacock, unless I knew for certain that I wasn't going to be using the engine. If my boat is in the water, chances are, I will use the engine, therefore, keep the seacock open.
When I repowered, in 2000, to test run the new engines, on the hard, the mechanic put a garden hose into the strainer, with the seacock closed, and used that water supply for cooling water. That was the last time, except for the surveyor mentioned above, that the seacocks were closed.
I need a survey again this year, and I already know my seacocks will move.
I can close them if I have a reason to.

I do close the seacocks in the boat when I will be away... it's just extra insurance. I have a 4" round piece of cardboard with a slot it it that says in red letters "sea cocks closed".. and I leave the key in the ignition with the key through the slot. In the engine room I had signs and arrows to point to the sea cocks, and at the engine sea cock I would leave the aluminum floor plate open for fast access.*

Regarding anchor setting.. when we were ragbaggers in So Cal in the 80/90s I got used to anchoring in very long narrow coves at the channel islands.. using a stern hook also. I would drop into the water and check out my neighbors anchors to insure that they had set the hook well. More often than not I would find a unset anchor and the boat holding because of the pile of chain.. I used up a lot of air dragging the anchors out in front of the boat and setting the anchors.

I never told the unsuspecting captains for fear of them blaming me if there was a issue.. but after I started this I also never again had a boat slide over in the middle of the night..

HOLLYWOOD

I have two through hulls, one for the waste pump out and one for the genset.* When I close the genset valve, I switch off the genset with a kill switch I wired in the engine room.* I have attempted to start the genset, oh, about 400 times with the through hull closed, but because the switch is off, nothing happens and I am reminded to open the valve, then start.* The CAT is dry stack, but if it was wet, I would kill it at the engine as well just to avoid the drama.

Genuine Marine Seacocks (not box store "stainless" ball valves) can readily be cable operated.

An extra shift tower will do a pair.

And for those really hard to get to valves, a motorized valve is the shizz.* I used to buy just the actuator which could be bolted onto any ball valve to open and close it automatically.* I see no reason why it wouldn't work on a 1/4 turn through hull as long as the valve has a threaded stud attached to the ball.*

I use a couple of motorized valves on Delfin's hydronic system to prevent unwanted convection circulation and have used hundreds of them in industrial heating applications, where they last for a very long time, in fact, I don't remember one ever failing.

Carl;

Of course you are correct. I was using a little hyperbole, but in the waters I live in, there is no freeze danger, so winterizing consists of making sure the HW tank in the ER is left on, so the ER temp remains slightly above ambient. Regular inspection of the hoses will detect any problems long before they get serious enough to change hoses. That will be the next time (except for exercise) my seacocks get closed.

Delfin wrote:
And for those really hard to get to valves, a motorized valve is the shizz.* I used to buy just the actuator which could be bolted onto any ball valve to open and close it automatically.* I see no reason why it wouldn't work on a 1/4 turn through hull as long as the valve has a threaded stud attached to the ball.*

I use a couple of motorized valves on Delfin's hydronic system to prevent unwanted convection circulation and have used hundreds of them in industrial heating applications, where they last for a very long time, in fact, I don't remember one ever failing.

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*Would that work for Racor filter switching on the run? We're installing a parallel filter for that one time when we get either water or crap in the filter and need to switch on the fly. Our filter(s) are interesting to get to, and of course I expect that the switching need will only occur in rough seas.

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