Volvo TAMD60B

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mramoo

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I have searched the forum for information about the Volvo TAM60B engines, and all I find is a few comments to walk away from them. One comment about high price of spare parts.
I have seem many vessels on Yachtworld that have these engines. If they are so bad, why do so many builders use them?
Thanks
 
Having owned a boat with Volvo engines for 16 years, I am in a position to comment on Volvo. The engines are good but Volvo does not support their products. They have the worst customer service in the industry. Parts are difficult, if not impossible to find, and cost triple those of Cat or Cummins. My guess, is that Volvo offers the builders a deal and to hell with the boat owners.
 
ancora, Thanks very much for your insight. It's information like that really helps.
 
mramoo said:
ancora, Thanks very much for your insight. It's information like that really helps.
Click to expand...

That's not "information", it's an unsubstantiated guess. Some Volvo parts may be difficult to find and high in cost but most parts are readily available. I needed a replacement cap for my raw water strainer. My Volvo dealer ordered the part for me and had it over the weekend. $45.

Not too long ago I replaced a leaking raw water pump. I found a brand new Volvo part on eBay at a discount and had it in a few days.

I've seen that thing about Volvo selling engines cheap to boat builders before but never any proof.

It would be a shame to pass on a nice boat because of BS on a web forum.
 
Hi WesK,
Well now I have even more to think about, two contrasting opinions, from two Volvo owners. That is why I asked this question, so I can get both sides. I know that there is good and bad with all products, but without asking the people that really have the products, all you get is spectulation. thanks for your input.
 
Volvo's reputation with legacy engines is usually is pretty bad. While I'm not familiar with that particular engine, I would look for information on when and how long production was. Then try to get a feel for how many were produced. Engines with a longer production history and sold well, are likely to enjoy a longer period of manufacturers support.

Ted
 
I have had a boat with twin Volvo tamd 74p motors for 14 years. The only parts that have been a problem to obtain replacements are the digital displays. Volvo did not make them and whoever the manufacturer was stopped making them. I found someone who was able to repair them. Other than that I have had no trouble getting parts through marine parts express. The engines have been very reliable and the only parts I have needed aside from filters, belts and impellers have been some senders, oil and turbo pressure. The engines have about 2000 hours on them.
 
Recb said:
I have had a boat with twin Volvo tamd 74p motors for 14 years. The only parts that have been a problem to obtain replacements are the digital displays. Volvo did not make them and whoever the manufacturer was stopped making them. I found someone who was able to repair them. Other than that I have had no trouble getting parts through marine parts express. The engines have been very reliable and the only parts I have needed aside from filters, belts and impellers have been some senders, oil and turbo pressure. The engines have about 2000 hours on them.
Click to expand...

Glad your engines have been reliable. Generally those parts are easy to source either from the manufacturer or an aftermarket company. The less frequently used parts are the problem on legacy engines. These might be things like rebuild parts, or things like a wet exhaust elbow, a head, ring gear, or an injector pump. Often these parts don't have enough demand for aftermarket companies to produce, so you're dependent on the manufacturer continuing to produce them or being able to rebuild what you have. Hopefully this will never be a problem for you, but imagine having a cracked head and not being able to find one.

Ted
 
Some years ago I was building a few boats. As an OEM I was able to buy a 370HP Volvo at the same price as a 300HP Cat cost. When you are trying to sell a boat most buyers will think the greater HP makes that boat a better buy. Simple choice for the builder.
I have two Volvos that need to be rebuilt at this time. Cost and parts availability make it not worth it. If they were other brands this would not be the case. I personally want nothing to do with another Volvo.
 
There is a very logical reason for parts shortages and prices on legacy Volvo engines in the US. Note, i added "in the US," because that's where the complaints come from. I know many in Europe with the engines and no complaints. They are well received there.

The problem isn't just Volvo. I hear the same complaints about MAN. I hear people arguing in favor of Cummins and CAT. Volvo didn't sell as many in the US as other manufacturers nor do they have as extensive a network of dealers and distributors. That is changing little by little. However, given this it makes sense that in the US you encounter more parts shortages and higher parts prices than you do on engines built in the US and more widely used here.
 
BandB said:
There is a very logical reason for parts shortages and prices on legacy Volvo engines in the US. Note, i added "in the US," because that's where the complaints come from. I know many in Europe with the engines and no complaints. They are well received there.
Click to expand...

That's really not a viable excuse. If the part is available Europe, there is no excuse for it not being available in the USA with a reasonable lead time. If I can get a $50 part for a Furuno radar from Japan, there's no reason Volvo can't do the same thing.

Ted
 
I have two 63Ls. Parts are expensive, yes, but they are not hard to find. Volvo has been making these engines since WWII and there is plenty of support if you look in the right places. Don't for a second let them scare you off of Volvo motors.
 
There is an important element missing from this discussion. Marinization via Penta.

Volvo indeed has made good base diesel engines over the years, still does. Dirt movers, small industrial equipment and over the road trucks of all sizes. the issues though with the water side are largely due to Penta.

Penta has been quite autonomous and is a very separate division from the other Volvo groups. They have played around for decades adding heat exchangers, after coolers, odd metal combinations, outdrives, IPS, electronics engine controls etc. that when not quite working right go to the dust bin and a new marinization part is devised.

Thus many boat owners are left out in the cold. Why? These marinization parts are subcontracted out (not unusual) and due to low demand the subcontractor stops making them or disappears. Also, Volvo Penta chooses base motors that may not necessarily have a long term future in the Volvo group and production ceases.

The unwary boat buyer has no idea what Penta motor is no longer in the long term corporate goals for support. Add this to the continuing diesel marinization dark clouds and long term Volvo Penta happiness is not assured. Other engine builders can be accused of similar lapses of old iron zeal, but Volvo seems the most complained about.

Every part and piece of my Cat/Perkins Sabres are still made with the engines' marine design age pushing 18 years. God Bless the Perkins Cat business model. Legacy Cat marine engines pushing 60 years old are still supported. Lugger/Northern Lights currently does a very good job, but I question their long term marine desires given their at times changing corporate ownership and necessary reliance upon several builders like Komatsu and Deere Inc.

Remembering of course we are talking legacy Penta support in the US. Also, Penta gripes seem far fewer with savvy boat owners. :hide:
 
O C Diver said:
That's really not a viable excuse. If the part is available Europe, there is no excuse for it not being available in the USA with a reasonable lead time. If I can get a $50 part for a Furuno radar from Japan, there's no reason Volvo can't do the same thing.

Ted
Click to expand...

Not saying it's a good excuse, just a partial explanation. If their dealer and distributor network in the US was stronger, they'd know how to get the parts from Europe. It's the middle part of the equation that is weak. We were on Lake Norman in NC with hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Volvo I/O's, but solid dealers. I would say parts availability and cost was at worst 10% worse than Mercruiser. As the need for parts was probably 15-20% less than Mercruiser, it pretty well evened out.

Now some hints that people may or may not have tried and may be better than your local dealer, depending on your location. These are from someone at my home today with decades of Volvo experience. Volvo's online parts store. Volvo Penta Marine Engine Parts and Accessories Online Store - volvopentastore.com In FLL, Diesel Services of America is one that unlike most others doesn't treat Volvo as a secondary part of their business. Find one in your area that doesn't. If their web site lists every other brand and doesn't highlight Volvo, then less likely to help. Also, find one willing to deal internationally and do what it takes to find the part. Again, we have a big advantage in South Florida that obtaining parts from Europe is commonplace for many. Now the shipping options from Europe may not be great and you'll have to make a choice on speed vs.cost.

In South Florida there are a lot of IPS boats, so Volvo is becoming far more common. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily help those with legacy engines but it does indicate more hope in the future.

On the lake there were many legacy gas Volvo's and the dealers there somehow got the parts.

I'm not by any means saying the problem isn't there though. It is. And it's far more of a problem in some areas than others. One reason we said no to Volvo IPS was we were going to be doing the loop and knew that the number of yards with Volvo experience would be far less than with MAN and conventional shafts. Of course with Cummins or CAT there would have been even more knowledge, but we went middle of the road with MAN.
 
BandB, Thanks for the tip to (volvopentastore.com) I have just went to their web site. I went through the list od sub-sections and found that the parts that they do have for the TAMD60B are only parts that you can pick up at any hardware store. The real parts ie (gears, levers, castings) that one would need are listed as (obsolete / not available ). That really does not work. What I found on this web site the was unreal was a washer for $49.06.
 
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BandB said:
Not saying it's a good excuse, just a partial explanation. If their dealer and distributor network in the US was stronger, they'd know how to get the parts from Europe. It's the middle part of the equation that is weak. We were on Lake Norman in NC with hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Volvo I/O's, but solid dealers. I would say parts availability and cost was at worst 10% worse than Mercruiser. As the need for parts was probably 15-20% less than Mercruiser, it pretty well evened out.

Now some hints that people may or may not have tried and may be better than your local dealer, depending on your location. These are from someone at my home today with decades of Volvo experience. Volvo's online parts store. Volvo Penta Marine Engine Parts and Accessories Online Store - volvopentastore.com In FLL, Diesel Services of America is one that unlike most others doesn't treat Volvo as a secondary part of their business. Find one in your area that doesn't. If their web site lists every other brand and doesn't highlight Volvo, then less likely to help. Also, find one willing to deal internationally and do what it takes to find the part. Again, we have a big advantage in South Florida that obtaining parts from Europe is commonplace for many. Now the shipping options from Europe may not be great and you'll have to make a choice on speed vs.cost.

In South Florida there are a lot of IPS boats, so Volvo is becoming far more common. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily help those with legacy engines but it does indicate more hope in the future.

On the lake there were many legacy gas Volvo's and the dealers there somehow got the parts.

I'm not by any means saying the problem isn't there though. It is. And it's far more of a problem in some areas than others. One reason we said no to Volvo IPS was we were going to be doing the loop and knew that the number of yards with Volvo experience would be far less than with MAN and conventional shafts. Of course with Cummins or CAT there would have been even more knowledge, but we went middle of the road with MAN.
Click to expand...

B, don't think anyone is arguing whether you can buy outdrive or IPS parts, the issue is that they don't support their diesel engines beyond the common maintainance item parts.

Ted
 
Is there such a thing as a "dedicated" Volvo dealer? Here in San Diego, we have dedicated Cat, Cummins and Yanmar dealers, but no dedicated Volvo dealers, just "one dealer fits all" places. When you go lookin' for a part, all you get is "Huh?"
 
ancora said:
Is there such a thing as a "dedicated" Volvo dealer? Here in San Diego, we have dedicated Cat, Cummins and Yanmar dealers, but no dedicated Volvo dealers, just "one dealer fits all" places. When you go lookin' for a part, all you get is "Huh?"
Click to expand...

I'm not aware of one. However, there are some that specialize in Volvo compared to others who list them as an afterthought. In South Florida, Diesel Services of America does that. They seem to specialize in brand other than CAT and MTU, such as MAN and Volvo and Kohler generators.

I think their network is still very week compared to other brands. For instance, there is no service facility on the TN River. Only one on Lake Michigan and none in Chicago. Poor coverage on the Great Lakes in general. Even on the East Coast, none between Charleston, SC and Palm City, FL. So, Georgia, Jacksonville, stuck without. There are 10 in South Florida so you're covered if you only boat here. On the Loop, you'll have none between Holland, MI and Panama City, FL.

I think they've failed to build from the ground up like they need to. Cummins and CAT have service providers everywhere. MAN is just as bad as Volvo in this respect. You'll find no service facilities between NY and Mobile if doing the loop. Now you will find more mechanics familiar with them.
 
We have a dedicated Volvo dealership in our area and seems to be that parts can be had for the most part but I can personally attest to the fact they are expensive. As an example my pressure cap was obviously in need of replacement and the engine was not coming up to temperature so I ordered the 2 required thermostats and a new pressure cap. I nearly fell over when the bill came to $338 for these 3 relatively basic items. My TMD40A is over 35 years old and still kicking however so I take this as a good sign.
 
It's personal preference, and our past experiences. Some good, some bad depending on who you ask.

All of the above described engine manufacturers have been making engines for decades.

I have not had an issue getting parts, but agree, they are probably more expensive than North American manufactures.

If Volvo had issues, I don't thing Eling would put them in their 40 and 50 ft, self righting passage makers. If I remember correctly, both there a E4 and E5 have a single Volvo D6, 370 hp engine, and no kicker. This boat is designed to go around the world.
 
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