Survey and Sea Trial Question

Hi there, I am looking at purchasing a boat that is located about 800 miles from home. I flew out to see the boat in person along with my buyer's broker, and we are now under contract.

Next step is the general survey, mechanical (engine) survey and sea trial. It's going to be hard for me to be there in person for this. My question is whether or not I should have my broker go (I'd likely pick up the cost of the flight), or not.

My broker is vetting the surveyors pretty carefully, and is relying on his network to find a respected surveyor in the area in which we are buying the boat.

So should I trust that the surveyors will do their job thoroughly, and await the results, or should I plan to have my broker there if I can't make it?

Looking for some guidance, as this process is new to me.

Thanks!
Mike

I would be there for the sea trial and survey no matter what. I bought our boat last year about 900 miles from home. Made sure to schedule the sea trial and survey when I could be there. I spent 2 days before the survey poking around the boat by myself. Learned a lot. When the survey was done I was able to tell the surveyor everything of note when he got there. He did ask me why I was paying for a survey, but the insurance required it. However if I had found anything that would have killed the deal, I could have cancelled the survey and saved the cost of the survey. You will learn a lot about your boat from the surveyor if he/she is good, but you would not have that opportunity if you are not there.

I wouldn't have your broker go out. He is more useful after you get the reports and you need to negotiate through the findings. In fact most brokers understand the buying and selling process more than the hull and engine mechanics.

Frankly I would use the money to be there yourself. The surveyors are working for you, they will point out things to you as you go along and help you better understand them.

Fully understanding the findings is critical. Boat and engine survey reports can be scary things. There will be dozens of findings. However only a few may be important, the rest less so. Being there with your surveyors will help you know the difference.

Worst case, not being there could mean you overreact to the findings, cannot come to a settlement, and lose the boat.

Good luck to you.

I would go there as well. If you find it's just impossible, I'd find someone to represent me there who has no involvement in the deal. It could be a captain or an engineer in the area. A professional in the industry, but one with good references and that you can trust to represent you.

I recommend attending in-person also.

I went to upstate NY in January to meet the surveyor, seller, and see IRENE for myself. The surveyor was a real professional, and he essentially walked me through the survey. IRENE is very simple, but I learned a bunch from the surveyor...time well spent.

Good Luck,

Jeff

You need to be thier I have a boats that I was selling and the survey was done very fast the buyer was not.thier you need to be thier

Thanks for the guidance. Unfortunately, it's going to be a challenge for me to be there. I do trust my broker. He actually checked out a boat for me down in FL and was very forthright in reporting all the issues with what seemed like, in photos, to be a very clean and problem free boat. So even though he is incented to sell me a boat, he's a very experienced broker who, based on his actions, has demonstrated that he's had my best interests in mind. So might not be a bad idea to have him go.

For further context, the boat is relatively new. It's a 2014 with 160 hours.

Assuming the boat is of significant size, complexity and cost you should be there. As to paying for your broker to be there I wish that was the standard but it is not. Your broker if he can be, should be there on his own dime as he is paid when you make the purchase. It is part of doing business as a buyer's broker unless you mutually agree to different terms.

MichaelB1969 said:

For further context, the boat is relatively new. It's a 2014 with 160 hours.

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Then why is it for sale? What is it the previous owner didn't like? Seriously, I would want to understand the reason for selling. May be very logical, may be something that wouldn't concern you, may be something that would bother you as well. They did use it a reasonable amount.

I would find a way to get there or schedule another time when I could be there.
There is soooo much that can be learned from the survey, sea trial and haul out that will aid you in your buying decision.

I agree with others. I have purchased a boat 1,500 miles away about being there in person.

I lined everything up, haul out, survey, and engine survey all on one day.

Learned a lot about the boat. Was able to discuss maintenance areas with both the surveyors. Identified who was going to perform the work if the deal closed.

For example, did not necessarily have to do some work, but chose to replace belts, raw water pumps, and some hoses. I knew when the deal closed I was going to take the boat 800 miles or so.

Much easier having that face to face contact, hearing the surveyors comments as the day progressed rather than just relying on a report.

Mark

I am just another person agreeing that you really should get there yourself as opposed to utilizing your broker. I would not leave this in a brokers hand and it appears this group does not completely rely on brokers either.

Another: Reschedule so you can be there.

-Chris

I agree with the above. If I couldn't be there though, I would take BandB's advice and find somebody you can trust that is third party. I have numerous friends that aren't necessarily professionals but are extremely knowledgeable about boats that I would trust to go in my absence. I am sure your broker has your best interests, but even then, like someone said, they are their to facilitate the deal and are not necessarily all that boat savvy....kinda like a car salesman that knows WAY less about the car than you do. Anyway, I would feel pretty good about having a trusted third party go along in my place.

Wifey B: Sorry, but I have to ask the hard question and hope it doesn't upset you, but it's a real concern. If you can't get away two days for the survey, the first really important thing involving the boat, how are you ever going to find time to use the boat? I'm not faulting you but seems a lot of people buy boats but don't have the time to use them, much less maintain them, because of other responsibilities. Maybe this is like a little test of your time for boating and having a boat?

Maybe I'm way way way way off target. Wouldn't be the first time, but, especially in this country, we seem to under-prioritize our leisure and pleasure and family time. Hubby can talk ad infinitum about the sad ways of the business world and expectations.

Do you have kids?

BandB said:

Wifey B: Sorry, but I have to ask the hard question and hope it doesn't upset you, but it's a real concern. If you can't get away two days for the survey, the first really important thing involving the boat, how are you ever going to find time to use the boat? I'm not faulting you but seems a lot of people buy boats but don't have the time to use them, much less maintain them, because of other responsibilities. Maybe this is like a little test of your time for boating and having a boat?

Maybe I'm way way way way off target. Wouldn't be the first time, but, especially in this country, we seem to under-prioritize our leisure and pleasure and family time. Hubby can talk ad infinitum about the sad ways of the business world and expectations.

Do you have kids?

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A very astute observation!!!!

I always suggest the buyer be at the survey. The written report will have most of the information but an in person description by the surveyor of items he finds can give the buyer much more information. The surveyor might find issues with the build of the boat that have never been noticed besides finding more recent issues. I often ask surveyors to explain some items in more detail to a buyer so the buyer understands if the problem is minor or needs to be dealt with sooner or later.
However I have also gone long distance to surveys without my client on board when I have had a long term relationship with that client. I prefer not to do that but someone must be there to represent the buyer.

There can be many reasons other than a permanent lack of time or commitment for the OP to be unable to attend the sea trial and survey.
It is highly desirable to be there even if it requires rearranging other obligations, but if it`s not possible it`s not, the next best arrangement has to be substituted.
It is hard to see how a sea trial, a kind of "test drive" as well as a survey component, can be much use with the buyer absent.

Another vote for the "be there" camp.

I live near Tacoma, WA and purchased a 40' sailboat out of Marina Del Rey back in 2010. I also used a buyers broker.

There are a number of reasons for a sea trial, but one of the more important ones is to actually be on the boat underway. Boats are expensive and unless you know this particular type of boat very well and have spent time on that brand of boat at sea, I would definitely be there for the sea trial.

Look at it this way. Suppose you were looking to buy a Honda S2000 and found one that sounded good. If you had never driven one, never sat in one, would you buy it just because a mechanic you trusted said it was a good representative of the make/model? I wouldn't. I use this example because I have purchased sports cars in the past and have decided not to purchase some because after I actually did test drive them I found that the "fit" just wasn't good enough. A boat is a lot more expensive than a car and a much more expensive mistake to make.

I took my broker with me to CA for the sea trial. It cost me a day of production being out of my office, plus air fare and meals for the broker and I. I would strongly recommend scheduling for a day when you can get to the boat to be at the sea trial. You don't say why it would be hard to get away, but WifeyB makes a great point above.

BruceK said:

There can be many reasons other than a permanent lack of time or commitment for the OP to be unable to attend the sea trial and survey.
It is highly desirable to be there even if it requires rearranging other obligations, but if it`s not possible it`s not, the next best arrangement has to be substituted.
It is hard to see how a sea trial, a kind of "test drive" as well as a survey component, can be much use with the buyer absent.

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Is there really a next best when it's the purchase of a boat you've never actually been on underway? Absent him being there on a sea trial, no one can say whether he'll be happy with the ride or performance. Now, I did suggest alternatives earlier, but not saying they are good.

The fact this boat is a 2014 makes me want even more to be there for the sea trial. The OP used it for 160 hours so it didn't go unused. There are many reasons it could be up for sale, but one of those is that the OP was disappointed in how it road and performed. Ride and performance and handling are all so personal and subjective. I've seen people trade up to their next boat, filled with excitement. Then it arrives, they jump on it, and immediately regret the move as they just don't like it as well as they thought they would. On outboards, I've seen engine swaps done after the delivery sea trial.

Missing the sea trial concerns me more than missing the survey.

The average boat use is 100 hours per year. So 160 hours, for weekend use rather than longer term cruising, is not out of line for a 2014 boat.

Here is another scenario. This one I know because it is exactly my scenario.

Since I knew I would be retiring at the end of this year I have been in the market for my "retirement boat." I finally got it this past February. Because I was and am still a working stiff it was pretty difficult to meet the contracted dates - especially since we had other false starts that I had to take time off for.

I have flown 129K miles this year and 68 segments. I fly across the US and internationally. It is my job that allows me to purchase the fun. If the contracted dates and my work travel meant I could not make the survey then I would have found a way to have someone competent there.

I guess my message is: just because he doesn't have the time right now, does not mean he isn't setting himself up for when he has the time.

In fact I was not even in this country for the closing but did it from Europe.

20 more work days for me!

So the reason I am not able to be there is that I just started a new job in a leadership position, and for reasons not worth getting into here, it's important that I be in the office right now.

Once the boat is here locally, I will certainly have time on weekends and vacations to enjoy it. I do have a 16 year old Son who is pretty excited about it too!

As for the Sea Trial, I have been on this type of boat before and it's a good fit for our family. So I would simply be there to ensure that it runs properly, which at this point I am not in the best position to evaluate.

I agree with everyone that it would be ideal if I could be there. No argument on this front at all. I am sure I would learn a good deal from the surveyor.

Lastly, the boat itself is still under warranty, which provides some level of assurance here. I am waiting, however, to determine if the engine is still under warranty as well.

Eventually, my wife and I would like to buy a full displacement trawler and do long-distance cruising upon retirement, which is about 11 to 12 years out. We felt it was wise to get boating experience in the Bay Area and coast and pick up important skills before we dove into any grander retirement plan. Especially since boating will be something new for my wife, and new to me as an adult as I grew up with boats in the family but haven't owned one yet.

Thanks for all the input. I am listening, and I do appreciate it very much.

Best,
Mike

BandB said:

Missing the sea trial concerns me more than missing the survey.

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People buy boats far larger and newer than the op's all the time without being there for survey or sea trial. In fact many buying new do so without either. Having a trusted party represent your interests in your absence is what several professions are based upon.

CPseudonym said:

People buy boats far larger and newer than the op's all the time without being there for survey or sea trial. In fact many buying new do so without either. Having a trusted party represent your interests in your absence is what several professions are based upon.

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Yup, but he did ask.

Selling a 1-3 year old boat always raises the question why. Best test any reason proffered.
I`m still trying to figure out why a particular brand of single engine trawler type boat here come up for resale so early in their life.

BruceK said:

Selling a 1-3 year old boat always raises the question why. Best test any reason proffered.
I`m still trying to figure out why a particular brand of single engine trawler type boat here come up for resale so early in their life.

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Generally if I see a lot of very recent builds up for sale, I'm quite worried and have negative feelings toward it. However, there are a couple of exceptions and I think the brand you're referencing may be one. Some brands are sold in a very skewed percentage to novice boaters, or at least novice in that size boat. They really don't know what they're getting into or if they will like it or have time for it. It's much like IPS drive systems being pushed heavily on beginners as a magic cure for docking problems. On the other hand, I know one brand that had some models hit the used market at record speed and it did reflect major problems with that model.

BandB said:

I would go there as well. If you find it's just impossible, I'd find someone to represent me there who has no involvement in the deal. It could be a captain or an engineer in the area. A professional in the industry, but one with good references and that you can trust to represent you.

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I would definitely be there for the survey & sea trial but if it was impossible I would follow the advice above.

MB

A really good surveyor and a trustworthy buyers broker can indeed do the job you are wanting done. Without your being there. This assumes you know the boat well and can ask informed questions of both groups via Skype, Face Time etc. This also assumes the boat is easily resaleable and has a decent following.

I have used long distance help in doing the exact task you are contemplating, although the deal finally fell apart for seller remorse reasons. It was too good for me to pass up on a very popular brand with dozens of hulls in the water. But, I would have been there for an after sea trial and survey inspection with hull specific smart help.

Assuming the boat is in the PNW there are many capable resources available you can use in your absence. But if you don't know and trust these people be very careful. These non stated associations, boat brand and location leave me in the dark as to degree of support, or not, I can honestly offer.

menzies said:

I wouldn't have your broker go out. He is more useful after you get the reports and you need to negotiate through the findings. In fact most brokers understand the buying and selling process more than the hull and engine mechanics.

Frankly I would use the money to be there yourself. The surveyors are working for you, they will point out things to you as you go along and help you better understand them.

Fully understanding the findings is critical. Boat and engine survey reports can be scary things. There will be dozens of findings. However only a few may be important, the rest less so. Being there with your surveyors will help you know the difference.

Worst case, not being there could mean you overreact to the findings, cannot come to a settlement, and lose the boat.

Good luck to you.

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Well said.
You need to be there.
If one little thing looks funny, stop and make a decision why it looks odd.
There was orange sealer around the exhaust hose going to the lift muffler on the main engine. Funny.
$1,800.00 later after we bought the boat we repaired the cracked muffler flange.
You need to go.
My opinion, you should find $5000.00 worth of repairs if you look hard enough.
The seller can pay for them now or you can pay for them later.