Cruising on the Yang Tsé River

My idea being "simplicity", this thread will not be complete in detail therefore I apologize for any incompleteness. On geographical, historical, thematic issues, everyone has the possibility to look more closely on the Internet.
I have not included explicit references each time I've used excerpts. Indeed I have taken a few excerpts only for the convenience of understanding adapted to the readers, for the reason English is not my first language. This is just an issue about the form of the thread, it does not change facts.

Welcome to Chongqing, China.

The purpose of my trip to Chongqing at that time was threefold : Meetings, to visit 3 special military historic places, to launch from there on the Yang Tsé river to reach the Three Gorges Dam which the journey is the main topic of this thread.

Chongqing (“Double-Blessed” in Chinese) is the most populous municipality of China and the unofficial biggest city in the world as well. It was a part of Sichuan Province, but it was made a "municipality" in 1997. Now granted with a particular status, Chongqing reports directly to the national government of China. It is a major center of iron and steel production, motorcycle manufacturing and shipbuilding, as well as chemical and pharmaceutical production. Chongqing has grown dramatically in population and economic importance, becoming the major industrial center of southwestern China.

It is a city with a long history. After Nanjing fell in 1937, Chongqing served as the capital of China. Chiang Kai-Shek established his military headquarters up in the mountains above Chongqing, on the East bank of the Yang Tsé River. As a result the Japanese bombers never found it.

Pictures of sections of Chongqing along the Yang Tsé River.

Chongqing, August 1945, the place where the rivals for control of China, Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-shek, met for the last time.

In 1923, the Communists and the Kuomintang, or Nationalist Party, formed a united front, then split in 1927. They then fought for a decade, with the Communists retreating to the interior of Shaanxi Province on the Long March.

With Japan’s invasion and occupation of Manchuria, Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-shek agreed to a second united front in 1937 to fight the Japanese. It was an uneasy alliance, and during the latter part of World War II, the Americans — sometimes fitfully, sometimes with enthusiasm — tried to bolster the relationship between the Communists and the Kuomintang against the common foe.

In August 1945, Mao Zedong flew from his mountain redoubt in Yan’an to Chongqing, the headquarters of Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalists and China’s sweltering wartime capital. It was to be the last meeting between leaders of the Communists and the Nationalists, the rival factions then contending for control of China. The encounter turned into a seven-week round of talks brokered by the administration of President Harry S. Truman, which hoped to engineer a coalition government for a united China and ensure that the hard-won war against Japan would not degenerate into civil war.

By the time Mao arrived in Chongqing, after the Allied victory over Japan, there was a slight thaw between Mao and Chiang. And Stalin, still an ally of the United States, had blessed the idea of the meeting. Mao was so nervous about flying that he asked the United States ambassador, Patrick J. Hurley, to come pick him up in an American airplane. It was Mao’s first flight, according to a textured account of the encounter between Mao and Chiang in “China 1945,” a book on America’s dealings with China that fateful year by Richard Bernstein, a former New York Times bureau chief in Beijing.

When Mao arrived safely in Chongqing, wearing a military-style jacket and a topee hat — a guerrilla antidote to Ambassador Hurley’s drawing-room bowler hat and bow tie — he was asked what he thought of the airplane. “Very efficient,” Mao replied, according to Mr. Bernstein. Mao was then treated to a ride into town in the embassy’s black Cadillac. (There is no report on how Mao liked the limousine.)

The day after Mao landed on Aug. 27, he joined Chiang for dinner. It was the first time the men had met in 20 years, the New York Times correspondent Tillman Durdin reported at the time. Over the next seven weeks, the men held many private meetings, often walking in Chiang’s garden. Aides to both leaders toiled over documents that ambitiously envisioned a new, democratic China, with a national conference that would establish the rules for elections to a national assembly. They also proposed that all Chinese armed forces be unified under Chiang’s command.

For Mao, though, the visit to Chongqing was worth the time. On Oct. 11, he flew back to Yan’an. By the next year, full-fledged civil war had resumed. And by 1949, Chiang and his Kuomintang forces had fled to Formosa (Taiwan), and Mao declared the establishment of the Communist People’s Republic in Beijing.

Pictures : Visit of Chiang Kai-Shek's military headquarters - accompagned by 2 Chinese security people - where Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-shek held many private meetings in Chiang's small office & in the military force operations room - with a map on the wall-. Nothing had changed since.

Joseph W. Stilwell, World War II army officer, headed both U.S. and Chinese Nationalist resistance to the Japanese advance on the Far Eastern mainland. He contributed a great deal to the Chinese people. He was the Commander of American Forces in the China Burma India theater. His Museum is situated in north of Chongqing in the general's former house.

He was as well the Chief of Staff to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek.

Then rather than to see his "touristic museum" in Chongqing, I got a chance to visit the former U.S. military headquarters, which was located next to Chiang Kai-Shek's military headquarters, just walking distance. I entered inside the 2 stories building, dusty furnitures and surfaces, everything was in its original condition, there still were photos on the living room walls, also used maps of invasion plans in Europe by the American troops... While I did not know that was allowed or not, I visited very briefly, took pictures, then leaved back to the car.

Pictures of the former U.S. military headquarters, an amazing picture of Soong Mei-ling ( Chiang Kai-shek's wife) driving in Chongqing an American WWII Jeep registered under military Chinese numbers. Soong Mei-ling moved to the United States after Chiang Kai-shek's death. She passed away in 2003 in her Manhattan apartment, New York, at the age in 106, her remains were interred at Ferncliff Cemetery in Hartsdale, New York.

I am not going to bore you more with history, next post will be about cruisiing .

Fascinating stuff!

Great post!! Thanks!! Please, keep telling more.. I love this kind of post...

Thanks. Great historical info.

Messieurs Moonfish, Garrobito, Dwhatty,

Thank you, I appreciate, you deserve a reward : attached picture of a box I found in one of the 2 places in Chongqing that I mentioned earlier. Very surprising !

Since you are Americans, since M. Garrobito is in Oakland San Francisco Bay area, I would like to come back to General Joseph W. Stilwell - he was kindly called "Vinegar Joe, the most colorful character in South East Asia" - :
- He successfully negotiated with Chiang Kai-Shek for control over the Chinese forces, and created a nominally integrated Chinese-American army.
- In the fall of 1943 and the spring of 1944, largely with Chinese troops he personally trained, he led a force into Burma which in a six month period drove the Japanese from Burma and reopened the Burma Road. He personally led these forces from a front line position with little or no regard for his own safety...
- He then served as commander of the 10th Army on Okinawa, ultimately receiving the surrender of 100,000 Japanese troops in the Ryukyu Islands, in southern Japan

Stilwell became an iconic hero in the annals of World War II, too often unknown to the wider public and the media, in my opinion.

He passed away in 1946 in San Francisco after surgery to remove stomach cancer. His ashes were scattered over the Pacific Ocean very close to San Francisco.

The day before boarding the boat, dinner at the former site of the French Navy Battalion - welcomed with red carpet -

In 1902, French naval officer Hulstre, leading the Survey Team on French warships, set up the French Navy Battalion in Chongqing's Nan'an District. In 1911 after the Xinhai Revolution, it was turned into the French Consulate, non-officially renamed "Champs Elysées" (picture #3).

Located at the end of Nanbin Road in Chongqing, it is a white walled building with an inner courtyard and winding corridors in a pseudo-medieval castle style. With attics orderly surrounding it, the building has maintained traditional Chinese sculptures, antique Roman columns, detailed window lattices and gothic arched colonnades.

In 2000, the French Navy Battalion was listed by Chongqing People's Government on the list of protected municipal level cultural relics, and was upgraded to the national level in 2013.

French Navy Battalion "Champ Elysées", on the Yang Tsé river in Chongqing, the third place I wanted to be when I was over there.

It is a very interesting thread, thanks for posting!
There is a good book Stilwell and the American Experience in China 1911-1945 the title explains it.

Steve said:

It is a very interesting thread, thanks for posting!
There is a good book Stilwell and the American Experience in China 1911-1945 the title explains it.

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You are welcome Steve. Thanks, I will look at the book !

Greetings Pilou,

Several years ago I read a book called Stillwell and the American Experience in China. In fact I think it is packed away in the attic. Reading your interesting report has brought back much from the book. Thank you for that Please continue this interesting thread.

Very interesting. Timely for me as well as I am reading 'American Caesar' about Douglas MacArthur. Thanks for the great story and pics!

Great stuff! Thanks very much.

Seems to me The Sand Pebbles was another book that focused on the area, although earlier in time...


-Chris

Merci beaucoup Messieurs. Don / Moonstruck, I will look at the book as well, thanks !

After discussions with some official people in Chongqing and without going into details here, I understood that Stilweel hated Chiang Kai-shek. For Stilweel, who was training as a soldier the Chinese troops on the spot while Chiang Kai-shek was drinking tea as a "Generalissimo" with official people in his comfortable headquarters in Chongqing, Chiang Kai-shek was not the right guy for China.

The reticence of Stilwell, of course not to the Nationalists but to Chiang Kai-shek himself, got him into much trouble with his superiors, the State Department, both President Roosevelt and Truman. But as they say in France, The goal is not about to be loved, it's about to do the job !

I was quite surprised to see how much the memory of Stilwell was appreciated in Chongqing. Proof of this is the museum devoted to him in his former house, and moreover, that the historic military buildings were spared from the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

Although I am aware that TF shall be a forum for the discussion of people who share a common interest in boating, I couldn't talk about Chongqing - the port of departure for my journey on the Yang Tsé river - otherwise than to show or remind that this place played very much confidentiality a determining and crucial role in the history of China, thanks to the USA which avoided the worst in my opinion, especially the risk of a bloody endless civil war in China. Once again, this is too often unknown to the wider public and the media.

The end of the historic military sub-topic

Good luck America for the election of today !
The end of the politic sub-topic

Great thread, thank you!

RB

China is fascinating to visit, and I love first hand accounts and photos. Please continue, and post whatever you would like to. It does not always have to be just about boats.

Messieurs Insequent & Roamer Blue

Many thanks for your kind support ! I will keep posting tomorrow, tonight it took me 25 minutes to finally sign in TF & AOL, for the reason Internet is crazy slow right now here in my area, I'm sure everyone in France is sitting in front of computers & tablets to monitor the US elections. I have never seen that before !

Chinese is the language used in China, but what Chinese language ? This is a difficult question to answer.

China is a vast nation boasting diversified nationalities and languages. With 56 ethnic groups, there are over 100 languages used in China, and countless local dialects. The People's Republic of China stipulates Mandarin as China's universal national language which is known in English as Mandarin Chinese, or standard Chinese. It is the most used language in China and one of the 6 official languages of the United Nations.

Information you read on Internet says about 70 % of the total population can speak Mandarin, this is both true and untrue. For indeed, if standard Mandarin is “putonghua” (literally translated "common tongue or speech) language, it has different regional words, grammar, many regional accents and a completely different sounding dialect of Chinese. China has ten major dialects, including Cantonese, Hokkien, Xiang, and Wu, as well as thousands of smaller ones.

Then the standard line of calling everything a “dialect” makes it really hard to tell, I would say that Chinese dialects are more fully different tongue languages than only regional grammar and accents.
China’s 10 or so dialect groups should be treated as completely separate languages. Moreover while standard Mandarin has become the official language of instruction in schools and among government officials, many families prefer to speak one of the dialects when home.

Therefore, if 70% of the 1.3 billion Chinese in the country can speak "Mandarin", only 50/55 % of the total population can speak standard Mandarin. Let's us not confuse percentage of population with geographical location : Two thirds of the citizens in China’s cities and towns speak standard Mandarin, only 20 % in the rural areas. 86 % of the population can speak as well or only regional Chinese dialects. 400 million people in China (equivalent to the population of Europe) can’t communicate in Mandarin...

Outside of the cities, don't except much people speaking standard Mandarin, they speak local dialect, a large part of them do not speak or understand the language used by the authorities. Moreover, standard Mandarin spoken by the authorities in Chongqing is some different than the standard Mandarin spoken by the authorities in Beijing.
Outside of Chongqing they speak local dialect of Sichuan (Sichuanese), it is quite the same outside of Beijing (4 different dialects !) Shanghai (shanghaïen spoken), Nankin & Yangzhou (Jianghai spoken), etc... Let us not forget the Cantonese (Yue) dialects which are spoken in Guangdong (Canton) and Guangxi, in the area around the southernmost point in the curve of the South China coastline.

These Yue / Cantonese dialects are also spoken in North America. Unlike people from other parts of China, the people who speak Yue / Cantonese dialects have settled in fairly large numbers in the United States and Canada by people who immigrated from Hong Kong (Cantonese spoken there) and Guangdong (Canton).

In Hong Kong, the most popular language is Cantonese. Standard Mandarin the official dialect of China, is used through the country for government communication. Although English remains an official language in Hong Kong, getting along with English alone can be much harder than you may think outside of Hong Kong Main island. Hong Kong is a great place to visit.

In Taiwan (Taipei is a one-hour & half flight from Hong Kong), the country is much more influenced by Mainland China than Hong Kong, so they speak Mandarin.

Macau (an one hour ride by TurboJet Ferry from Hong Kong, an easy day trip) speaks mostly Cantonese, also standard Mandarin and Portuguese.

What about Chinese written language :
Mandarin, Cantonese, the 9 other main local dialects speakers, use the same written language.
Normally (there are a few exceptions), if a Mandarin person knows traditional characters he/she is able to read and understand written Chinese anywhere, including Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore. The grammar, the accents, some words, are very much different in the spoken tongue but written-wise it is pretty much the same. All Chinese dialects use (almost) an identical writing system.

Chinese characters, called Kanji in Japanese, are also heavily used in the Japanese writing. China now uses simplified characters, whereas Japan use traditional ones. Chinese cannot read Japanese aloud or vice-versa, but they can understand what is being said in the text.

But, although you could read on the Internet about that, the very big problem is that only a minority of the population in China Mainland know how to read and write fluent Chinese, from what I have seen.

In China Mainland, the extreme complexity of numerous different dialects spoken combined to the fact a minority know how to read and write is a somewhat different nature and huge issue. Even Mao Zedong, the founding father of the People’s Republic of China, spoke with such a pronounced regional accent that many Chinese had a hard time understanding him.

All this makes it more complicated to travel on your own (I mean outside of a tourist or business group) in China Mainland especially in the country side. An interpreter is required, which is a crucial, even vital point. I was accompanied by Miss Xiao, she is my interpreter (and my "security") in China since years. She speaks Mandarin, Sichuanese, Yue (Cantonese), Shanghaïen, English. Formerly employed by the French Embassy in Beijing, she speaks also fluent French.

When you talk about Chinese writting, you can talk about Calligraphy. Introducing the art of Chinese Calligraphy, the highest form of art in Chinese culture.

Calligraphy is a unique Chinese craft that juxtaposes literature and art. It is a traditional art form with five-thousand-year history, a cultural symbol of China, a carrier of Chinese philosophy.

Chinese Calligraphy uses pictographic symbols, the Chinese characters, that are naturally related to pictures in shape and form. Chinese characters express meaning and have deep aesthetic significance. This is why it is said that Chinese calligraphy is “silent music and dance” on paper.

All those who have practiced calligraphy say that they feel meaningful and calm when they are concentrating on studying strokes and structures in order to write a beautiful character.

Then while still in Chongqing, I was curious to find out and express my personal experience in calligraphy, to learn basic calligraphy techniques, try to write simple Chinese characters in standard script with calligraphy brush, practice patience, and find a moment of tranquility.

The reality was much different. I was stressed out from handling the brush, I was trembling with the idea of doing wrong, minutes seemed for hours, I ended extremely tired. But she who tries nothing has nothing. Finally it was, to me, technically interesting, a lot of fun, with a sense of having done my duty .

Pilou said:

Chinese characters, called Kanji in Japanese, are also heavily used in the Japanese writing. China now uses simplified characters, whereas Japan use traditional ones. Chinese cannot read Japanese aloud or vice-versa, but they can understand what is being said in the text.

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The Japanese actually use 4 alphabets. Kanji is an older symbolic alphabet from China where symbols represent specific words. They also use Hiragana and Katakana which are alphabets of syllables or more or less phonetic alphabets. These alphabets evolved in more recent times. The fourth alphabet is Romanji, the same alphabet we use. Despite its age and difficulty in learning, Kanji remains the predominant alphabet in use. I don't believe the Chinese would be able to read the later 3 alphabets and the Japanese seem to be able to mix all 4 alphabets together without realm or reason.

Donsan said:

The Japanese actually use 4 alphabets. Kanji is an older symbolic alphabet from China where symbols represent specific words. They also use Hiragana and Katakana which are alphabets of syllables or more or less phonetic alphabets. These alphabets evolved in more recent times. The fourth alphabet is Romanji, the same alphabet we use. Despite its age and difficulty in learning, Kanji remains the predominant alphabet in use. I don't believe the Chinese would be able to read the later 3 alphabets and the Japanese seem to be able to mix all 4 alphabets together without realm or reason.

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"Chinese cannot read Japanese aloud or vice-versa, but they can understand what is being said in the text" is what I wrote earlier. I can only speak to what I've seen when I traveled a few years ago in Japan with a Chinese friend.

However my thread is not a language course, this is just a report of trip.

Monsieur RT F
Lovely music, thank you.

Greetings,
Mme. P. I was quite taken with urhu music on our visits to China. 2 strings! We attended the Szechuan opera one evening which was my first exposure. Something very ethereal and surreal about it. For anyone who EVER gets the chance to visit China...GO!

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mme. P. I was quite taken with urhu music on our visits to China. 2 strings! We attended the Szechuan opera one evening which was my first exposure. Something very ethereal and surreal about it. For anyone who EVER gets the chance to visit China...GO!

Click to expand...

Monsieur RT F
Great statement. Amazing erhu violin, only 2 strings & only 4 octaves. With its ability to sound painful, playful, sad, peaceful ... it touches the soul...

RT Firefly said:

For anyone who EVER gets the chance to visit China...GO!

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Which historic places to visit in Mainland China ?

As a saying goes:

"Go to Shanghai and you will find a 200-year-old China.
Go to Beijing and you will find a 2000-year-old China.
Go to Xian and you will find a up to 20,000-year-old China."

Pilou,Thank you for this fantastic history lesson.
AHHH the food. We recently toured China, Cambodia and Viet Nam. Incredible people,culture and geography. And the food. Best I have ever experienced. I have great memories for a lifetime. There are many lessons Americans could benefit from Chinese culture. I certainly was amazed and delighted! We did not make it to Xian.Please continue this journey with us.
Dave

Toolbuddie said:

Pilou,Thank you for this fantastic history lesson.
AHHH the food. We recently toured China, Cambodia and Viet Nam. Incredible people,culture and geography. And the food. Best I have ever experienced. I have great memories for a lifetime. There are many lessons Americans could benefit from Chinese culture. I certainly was amazed and delighted! We did not make it to Xian.Please continue this journey with us.
Dave

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Dave,
Many thanks for the positive feedback !
I definitly agree with you about China and asian countries that you refered too.
The most amazing thing about China is the resilience of its culture and civilization. Moreover, while Ancient Greek and Egyptian are dead languages, people still speak and write in Chinese today.

Chinese food - in China - is itself an endless voyage of discovery, definitely my favorite food (Once again I apologize to my fellows French !).

To quote Monsieur RT F in another thread, 'China is probably the most fascinating country I've EVER visited'.

When travelling in a foreign country, there is always something that we have to keep in mind for the next time. Then the next time, go Xian (and Hong Kong if you have not already done so). Feel free to contact me if you would need some advices about both places.

Merci beaucoup !