Militec, is it me or?...

gaston said:

I did read your post boring as it was but please explain to me how a boat engine running at 1850rpm can go faster with snake oil at the same 1850 rpm

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+1

Sorry but there is magic and there are numbers... same revolution, same transmission, same propeller... 1850 rpm will be 1850 rpm with oil, without oil, with synthetic or even olive oil.

Not my intend to be bad but honestly think about it.

gaston said:

I did read your post boring as it was but please explain to me how a boat engine running at 1850rpm can go faster with snake oil at the same 1850 rpm

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Roger that Gaston, loud and clear! That's what it says in the Bible, anyway, my favorite version being the Propeller Handbook.
Portugese, instead of getting your feathers so ruffled, why don't you prove your claims?
If Militech gives your motor more hp for a given amount of fuel, (The only way you would see any gains) then it may have some value, at least in the short term.
The big marine engine manufacturers put huge money into R&D, and if they thought this stuff would make their motors look good, I'm sure they would spec it.
Has adding the Militech affected the WOT rpm?
I realize that few trawler operators run their boats at WOT, but it is a good baseline check to know what it will turn, and check from time to time to verify that it still does, and of course to verify vague claims.
For me and my engine, slow and steady that we are, it's not worth risking any damage from a non-spec additive in exchange for nebulous results.

I think there is something in what kapnd says about the proof being in the fuel used to operate the boat in identical conditions at identical rpm using precise fuel measuring.
I believe Nulon deglazed my bores because the blue smoke stopped. I`m not about to dismantle the engine, twice, to check.
Portuguese is satisfied there is a performance improvement. Achieving the test procedure protocols is probably quite impractical for most mere mortals. Especially if wear and longevity have to be factored in. And it seems to me the doubters don`t mind setting a test known to be largely impractical except for a test laboratory,unlikely to be implemented, and probably altogether too much bother.
Looks like a stand off. Accept or reject? We get to choose.

What is Militec-1
Militec-1 is a chemical treatment of metals. It is mixed to the lubricant, but it is not reagent with this.
Above 38 degrees, it moves of the oil for the metal, reacting chemically with the same.

It reduces the attrition in at least 70%
It creates a protection anti-supporter
IT creates an anti-corrosive protection
Deva

Deva said:

What is Militec-1
Militec-1 is a chemical treatment of metals. It is mixed to the lubricant, but it is not reagent with this.
Above 38 degrees, it moves of the oil for the metal, reacting chemically with the same.

It reduces the attrition in at least 70%
It creates a protection anti-supporter
IT creates an anti-corrosive protection
Deva

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Those are the claims. You can read about it here. I'd never heard of this particular product before, but am familiar with the concept...

MILITEC-1 - The ONLY all-purpose synthetic metal conditioner

I've ran Lucas oil additive into my road diesels and gas and was always happy with how the motor lasted. In my gearbox if I need a heavy weight oil I would use royal purple. In my Jeep up in Maine in the winter she shifted like butter. I would use it on the water to.

Nothing new about Militec's claims. For engines with badly wearing crank bushings and journals it may help fill in the loose/low spots. Maybe even tighten up rings. The recommended dosage costs about $4 per quart of oil. Moly lube products can perform similarly.

Some of these products can plug up oil passages due to the binders' affinity for carbon. This is why it is a good gun and cannon cleaner.

In the old days many products including heavier oil were used to quiet down and reduce oil burn smoke in an engine during a sale process. My diesel engines are industrial diesels. They are noisey by design. They do not smoke or leave soot on the transom. After an oil change the CCV system runs cleaner for awhile. Normal healthy diesel operation as I see it. DELO 400 every 300 hours - so far so good.

BruceK said:

Portuguese, best way I can put it is I`m agnostic about oil additives.
Years ago I put a molybdenum additive in the manual gearbox of an Austin Healey, the improvement in shifting and gear noise was amazing.
Six years ago my genset got glazed when unintentionally I ran it no load for an extended period, the "load" eutectic compressor had died, unbeknown to me. Nulon, an Aussie oil company,claimed their diesel oil additive used at double strength will fix it, and it did. I keep using it at the normal ratio.
Based on that, I`m inclined to respect your experience.

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Was it their Stop a Smoke product you used?

Capt.Bill11 said:

Was it their Stop a Smoke product you used?

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I suggest you read the "Sarcasm and Intolerance" thread.

I'm usually quite direct in my comments and I know I'm no paragon of virtue but holy crap you guys...

No experiences with the Millitec product per se, but I have had good experiances with similar products in a few of the classic cars i've owned. Engine would run smoother, feul economy would drop, although not a lot but it was noticable.

I used to own an old Lister engine ( from the 50's ) in which I replaced, and cleaned the gearbox and its oil. Afterwards it would run a lot better and it felt as if it was faster while running at similar RPM's as before. Maybe it only felt like this because the engine was a lot less 'shaky' or maybe it actually made some difference I don't know.

However I have had bad eperiances too, The engine I had at the time would make a lot of noise while cold because of the hydrolic valves, ( These needed to be filled with oil while running and would be filled and quiet when the engine reached running temperature. ) However after a few weeks the noise would not go away, not even when the engine was hot. Main reason was that the 'hydraulic valves' would be dirty. No more oil could run through. I've started using an additive which the company 'claimed' would fix the problem. The only thing it did was make the oil thinner so it could 'slip' pass the debree. It did not actually fix anything, I mean the noise would go away but it wasn't a fix at all.

People are always quite divided, maybe even biased about additives. Maybe because some company's made/make unreasonable claims of what their product is capable of. I was/am looking for something to reduce the smoke coming out of the exhaust of my antique engine and something that makes the engine run smoother/start easier. Currently I am adding a tiny amount of acetone to my diesel which helped a lot to make my engine a bit more efficient. ( I don't know what effects acetone has on modern engines or commonrail engines. ) But when asked about the experiances of acetone more than half would say it didn't make a difference or it would 'ruin' the engine. Been using it for about a year now without any problems.

Regards,

Thom

Peter B said:

Those are the claims. You can read about it here. I'd never heard of this particular product before, but am familiar with the concept...

MILITEC-1 - The ONLY all-purpose synthetic metal conditioner

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Peter... Thanks for placing link. Interesting claims.

Can't help but wonder if the performance ingredients of Militec do actually/truly "fill" micro-voids in engines/gear box metal parts; therein enabling better opportunities for oil/fluids to perform their lubrication-barrier procedures.

If so... seems a slam dunk that Militec should be used along with lubrication fluids in most instances.

Website even mentions using Militec for 2 cycle engines... such as outboard engines I presume. Wonder if once used along with two cycle oil in gasoline if the Militec's void-fill coating stays in place for substantial period of time before more Militec is required to again be placed into gasoline? Or, for Militec to keep providing it's "magic" fill-properties on 2 cycle engines does it need to be included with each new tank of gasoline.

I'll do some net searching and report findings if they are other than what is already available.

Happy Lubrication Daze! - Art

EDIT [about 30 minutes later, after net search]: OK - I'm pretty much sold on Militec-1 capabilities. Now... I just do not know exactly how much to add to 4 cycle engine oil-bin %age-wise and don't know the % or schedule (how often) to add Militec into gasoline for 2 cycle o/b's?? Also, besides net sales... need to find if any auto or marine stores carry Militec-1?

I have no doubt the Militec problem works and perhaps makes the engine run smoother. My only question regarding that is achieving greater speed at the same RPM. I don't believe the product used in the engine could cause that to happen. I may be wrong, but believe it's far more likely caused by wind or water conditions. I do believe the product could allow the engine to turn more RPM. i do believe it could allow better overall performance. However, the strong antidotal evidence is that these products can enhance engine performance, especially of older engines.

I think your engine is probably running smoother after 400 plus hours and I think it will probably run smoother still when you get to 4000 hours when it's finally broken in. It's possible that the additive is even slowing down the break in period. Back in the day amsoil was too slippery to break in Porsche engines.

I think of the analogy of us old timers (don't believe I just typed that) using STP in our oil in the 60s and 70s.
I have no idea if it really helped, but at the time I swear it did.
It may have.

STP = Stop The Pounding!!

MMO for those of you who know what that is. I don't use anything but the benefits of MMO are legend.

OK, so I just read this whole thread and frankly found some of the comments hilarious! Not offensive either. The claims made by the OP frankly can be explained as noted above by wind and water conditions, tide etc. If the RPM's are the same at the engine, there is no way the prop will turn faster than before. If however the stuff was put in the gear and allowed less friction there, and thus allowed the shaft to turn faster, that would make sense. But that was not the claim.

Portuguese said:

Hi BruceK
People only read what and how they want to read. That's why there are so many interpretations for the same texts in the Bible.
Maybe I put it wrongly but, what I really meant, was that my engine runs smoother and with a lot less effort due to the lost of friction.
About the speed, and because the gear also has Militec, I have a considerable decrease in power losses before the same gets to the prop. Once again, less friction losses.

For many in the stoneage, the wheel was a useless mechanism

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78puget-trawler said:

OK, so I just read this whole thread and frankly found some of the comments hilarious! Not offensive either. The claims made by the OP frankly can be explained as noted above by wind and water conditions, tide etc. If the RPM's are the same at the engine, there is no way the prop will turn faster than before. If however the stuff was put in the gear and allowed less friction there, and thus allowed the shaft to turn faster, that would make sense. But that was not the claim.

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Actually, Puget, you didn't read it quite carefully enough. Have another look at his post above, although I admit he missed out mentioning he put it in the gearbox oil as well in the opening posts. I think quite a few others might also missed that important clarification..?

You're right, I did miss that. Its not in the original post, but later. All I saw was engine and Genny. And here I thought I had a good idea!

Peter B said:

Actually, Puget, you didn't read it quite carefully enough. Have another look at his post above, although I admit he missed out mentioning he put it in the gearbox oil as well in the opening posts. I think quite a few others might also missed that important clarification..?

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Please may you explain how better lubrication in gear box will make the propeller goes faster?
Better lubrication reducing wear I can understand.
Better lubrication reducing power loss by heat dissipation I can understand.

But better lubrication increasing propeller spead I do not understand.

Please advise.

You are probably right, it might not, but it makes more sense as a possibility being connected directly to the shaft as opposed to the engine.

This thread reminds me of university and why the engineering students sat far far away from the accounting law and teacher students

gaston said:

This thread reminds me of university and why the engineering students sat far far away from the accounting law and teacher students

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They were in different faculties?

BruceK said:

They were in different faculties?

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With different bearings and gear ratios!

BruceK said:

They were in different faculties?

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Different planets

Different brain-lube fluids!

This thread has been closed.