OpenCPN Bug--or other?

This is about my fourth installation of OpenCPN Stable Release 4.4.0 on my 2009 Windows 7 Home Premium/Service Pack 1 machine. I did it by the book--I even disconnected the internet cable as advised by OpenCPN.

Still always the same problem. I want to go across Florida via the Okeechobee Waterway. Cannot get OpenCPN to show the Waterway with an ENC (vector) chart. It just won't show up on the land portion of Florida. Part of it shows in the Ft. Meyers Inlet area, but only the basic 'brown land' shows in the Florida peninsula part. No waterway. The green chart outline for the waterway shows on the brown basic land, but no waterway when I zoom in closer. I also installed (both were done via the 'Chart Downloader') the Gulf of Mexico ENC chart and it works fine, as does other charts I've installed. I even tried the NOAA Raster Chart of the same name (again via Chart Downloader) and sections of the Waterway would show up, but not the whole Waterway. Again. I have also hooked up my GPS puck to OC and not, no difference. The boat icon shows up when I hook up the GPS puck (GlobalSat BU-353S4), so that's working too.

Would some of you fellow OC users please install the Florida State "Okeechobee Waterway St.Lucie Inlet to Fort Myers; Lake Okeechobee" ENC chart using the OC Chart Downloader on your copy (OC 4.4.0) of OC and tell me if the Waterway shows up?

Is this a bug in OC, a ghost in the machine, or is it my misunderstanding somehow of OC? At least knowing that would be helpful, thanks. I have copies of my OC Config and Log files, but not sure how to post them here if requested.

Here's a screenshot of the issue, the Waterway doesn't show up when zoomed in on:

do you have all the charts for the area loaded or just that one small sale chart?

I downloaded & updated Region 7 and Florida State, but only checked the Gulf of Mexico, Cape Canaveral to Key West, Havana to Tampa Bay, and Okeechobee Waterway St.Lucie Inlet...etc. chart boxes from the Florida State directory. Here's the 'piano keys':

I don't have OpenCPN 4.4 still 4.0...but just downladed all possible US RNCs today and the Okeechobee waterway is in large scale.


Not sure if it is the OpenCPN 4.4 or the ENCs or just your extraction of the charts and loading them....


I wont upgrade the program till next summer when I am home again. Too close to departure and I don't want any gremlins.

I used the OpenCPN 'Chart Downloader' which is a 4.4.0 plugin, so hopefully that's not the problem.

Never used it so I don't know any of its pitfalls.....sorry...

I find major bugs every time I use OpenCPN. It just isn't worth the danger it will put you under. There are such great products out there - use one of them.

Your ABS breaks in your car are controlled by a computer running software. Would you want that software to be open source, created by a bunch of volunteers? The navigation system of your boat is the same thing.

Wil:

Cruisersforum.com has an OpnCpn sub forum that is the place for troubleshooting.

I am somewhat of Jeff's mind about OpnCpn.

David

I've posted on CF in the OpenCPN forum as well. I'll continue with it over there. Thank you to those of you who attempted to help me, I appreciate it.

Jeffrey S said:

I find major bugs every time I use OpenCPN. It just isn't worth the danger it will put you under. There are such great products out there - use one of them.

Your ABS breaks in your car are controlled by a computer running software. Would you want that software to be open source, created by a bunch of volunteers? The navigation system of your boat is the same thing.

Click to expand...

People who live in glass houses ....

You of all people should understand. I strongly doubt the "major bugs" claim but - if it is true - have you reported them? And if not why not?

OpenCPN 4.4.0 Build 2016-05-31
Windows 7 Pro Svc Pk 1
Lenovo W540 i7 2.4 GHz 8GB RAM

When I download the NOAA ENCs directly from NOAA and install manually the Okeechobee Waterway shows up. I did have to click the Options Icon (Wrench), Click the Charts Tab, select "Scan Chart and Update Database" check box and select the "Force Full Database Rebuild" check box to get the full waterway to show up.

Warning! Thread drift.....

@ Jeffery S

I find major bugs every time I use OpenCPN. It just isn't worth the danger it will put you under. There are such great products out there - use one of them.

Click to expand...

I find major bugs in all of the plotting software I have used over many years. When everything is working as it should I use almost exclusively a PC based plotting software package, Rose Point is my current fave. But for complete peace of mind I want a dedicated hardware / plotter backed up by paper charts with a stand alone radar and compensated magnetic compass.

Your ABS breaks in your car are controlled by a computer running software. Would you want that software to be open source, created by a bunch of volunteers? The navigation system of your boat is the same thing.

Click to expand...

Here are some interesting links for you....

Welcome to the era of open source cars
Automotive Grade Linux: An open-source platform for the entire car industry
BMW CarIT, Open Source Community development

Wil said:

Would some of you fellow OC users please install the Florida State "Okeechobee Waterway St.Lucie Inlet to Fort Myers; Lake Okeechobee" ENC chart using the OC Chart Downloader on your copy (OC 4.4.0) of OC and tell me if the Waterway shows up?

Click to expand...

Wil,

When I download those two charts and have only those charts in my active chart group, the waterway appears at all scales.

But if you have a bunch of other charts active too (for example the entire Florida NOAA ENC package), OpenCPN's quilting algorithm will sometimes cover a fine-scale chart with a coarse-scale one. Try zooming in until the waterway chart appears as one of the "piano keys", click on that key, and you should see it. Then you can turn off quilting (type shift-Q) and the waterway chart should be visible no matter how much you zoom out.

If you never see the waterway chart when zooming in, then you have some other problem...

Warning! I've just downloaded this software for the first time. I might not know what I'm talking about.

Have you tried the map named "Lake Okeechobee" in the ENC charts for Florida list? I loaded this one and it shows the whole lake and most of the waterways on the East and West sides.

I tried the map you refer to, also in the ENC Florida list, "Okeechobee Waterway St.Lucie Inlet to Fort Myers; Lake Okeechobee". That map is very odd and only shows 2 very small regions at the East inlet and one other location.

QB, thanks for the great tip. I got the Okeechobee Waterway working with help from CF, appreciate knowing more about quilting.

QB said:

Wil,
Try zooming in until the waterway chart appears as one of the "piano keys", click on that key, and you should see it. Then you can turn off quilting (type shift-Q) and the waterway chart should be visible no matter how much you zoom out.
If you never see the waterway chart when zooming in, then you have some other problem...

Click to expand...

PB, I'm up and running now, thanks for the Update tips.

Portage_Bay said:

When I download the NOAA ENCs directly from NOAA and install manually the Okeechobee Waterway shows up. I did have to click the Options Icon (Wrench), Click the Charts Tab, select "Scan Chart and Update Database" check box and select the "Force Full Database Rebuild" check box to get the full waterway to show up.

Click to expand...

Portage_Bay said:

I find major bugs in all of the plotting software I have used over many years. ... Rose Point is my current fave.

Click to expand...

Maybe my data is skewed but there are a dozen people a week who write us asking what they should use now that they've finally given up on OpenCPN. I find their UX impossible to use, especially on touch screens which is where everything is going. As a software developer (for nearly 50 years) I find their code to be a jumble of mess. As a user, I find the performance to be inconsistent (which is consistent with poorly written software). On every level, I think it's garbage.

I should explain that I did work with it to interface ActiveCaptain. There's even a working plugin that makes it all work (although it doesn't work now). But the user experience was so bad that I felt we couldn't weather the technical support it would require to support it. Everything about the software is open and I could release something tomorrow. Don't expect it.

Rose Point is a great example of a well-thought-out UX providing an incredibly reliable and intuitive product. Even PolarView (for free) is a better product wiping the floor in performance over OCPN - run them side-by-side and see for yourself. Performance is always a key to realizing quality of architecture and the amount of effort put into a product. Heck, Fugawi is head-and-shoulders above OCPN too.

This isn't competitive hype - we receive nothing from any of the product developers. Fugawi doesn't even have an interface for ActiveCaptain. My experiences are based on my experience as a software developer and boater.

I'm sure there are efforts underway to create open source software for autos. It's just not part of the ABS systems that any of us use when we press on the brake pedal today (or for the foreseeable future).

Given the relatively low cost and resumes of the developers, Rose Point seems a logical choice for those of us who prefer to plug and play rather than trying to make a hybrid system work. That said, I have both VNS 9.1 and Trident.

In this era and based upon shore jobs, many boaters are quite sophisticated and knowledgable in making systems work. Therein lies much of the popularity of downloading charts utilizing CPN, Polar View etc.

That is OK, boating is a hobby for most of us where we can apply our selected skills and interests. Wasting time is OK too, whether waxing, varnishing or screwing around with stubborn charting systems. But sooner or later some of us stray very far from home waters with charting questions, out of necessity, hopefully negligible.

In a recent PM magazine Nigel Calder had a must read article regarding tragedies resulting from charting system misreads and malfunctions. As Jeff states also, serious problems can and do result from charting systems not performing.

For me and many others, keeping the paper charts handy and utilizing a proven charting system is the choice. Especially when transiting new waters. Plus I don't want to end up like the BC tug being discussed in another thread.

while it may have problems, and it may not work for everyone....

it does work for many....and if you have access to free charts like in the US.....and have an old laptop...and it works flawlessly for you...kinda hard to beat for $40.

Worth a try for those that will never go drop $1500 or way more on a 10 inch or so MFD box.

As for safety...as in all things safety....debatable. It has safely navigated me through 4 round trips between NJ and FL. I just loaded every chart in the US for my upcoming trip....easy and free. As updated as they get.

As to not worth the trouble? Depends on one's financial status....maybe that's why it was created....and suffers from less than perfect performance.

.....out of all the recent newsworthy groundings from tugs to cruise ships to Norhavns....I will bet not one was using OpenCPN.

psneeld said:

while it may have problems, and it may not work for everyone....

it does work for many....and if you have access to free charts like in the US.....and have an old laptop...and it works flawlessly for you...kinda hard to beat for $

.....out of all the recent newsworthy groundings from tugs to cruise ships to Norhavns....I will bet not one was using OpenCPN.

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Now if I had a lifetime of USCG and similar experiences to draw from I'd feel exactly the same.

BTW, I'd bet a large sum that the Tug in question did not have the paper charts out. I've been on the bridge of a large ship transiting Seaforth after passing Bella Bella, paper charts were on the back table.

psneeld said:

Worth a try for those that will never go drop $1500 or way more on a 10 inch or so MFD box.

Click to expand...

If it's about cost, then try PolarView. It's free too. They will accept payment but you don't have to purchase a license.

I actually did try it years ago and Polar View it didn't work for me...but now it might...as with so many computer issues we all have had over the years....including major user error.


But why would I change from something I like and trust just fine?

I used it all day yesterday trip planning different leg possibilities from NJ to FL...lots of activity.

sunchaser said:

I've been on the bridge of a large ship transiting Seaforth after passing Bella Bella, paper charts were on the back table.

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What a waste for the back table! Mine were thrown out years ago.

Red Head came with a bunch of old paper charts stuffed in a closet. I have to admit it - they're the perfect thing to put paint cans on when mixing paint and doing painting projects. They don't absorb spills and make a great barrier over work surfaces.

Perhaps I was wrong. Maybe paper charts have a use now after all...

psneeld said:

But why would I change from something I like and trust just fine?

Click to expand...

You shouldn't. If it's working, don't touch a thing! The thread was based on someone having problems and looking for ideas. My idea was to move to something better, that's all.