Hull identification help please.

The boat is documented however, taking longer than my liking to get me the new owner re documented.

Currently there are no hull numbers, call numbers, etc. on the boat. I did register it in Florida and have the registration sticker. (I know where that goes)

I am assuming I do need hull letters/numbers on the boat. Yes?

No registration numbers, but the Documentation number needs to be on the boat someplace and needs to look somewhat permanent.

The Doc. Number won't change so that should already be somewhere, or if like my boat, cheap aluminum numbers glued in the bilge.....they all rotted away. So I bought some thin plastic numbers at Lowe's and epoxied them to a stringer with some glass cloth over them.

But online, you can find companies that will carve it in wood and you glue/screw that wherever you want...seems to work for many.

Just remember that the short for number.... No. ...... has to be in front of the numbers.

Have you checked the National Documentation Center's website out? Lots of good info in the FAQ section.

Donna said:

The boat is documented however, taking longer than my liking to get me the new owner re documented.

Currently there are no hull numbers, call numbers, etc. on the boat. I did register it in Florida and have the registration sticker. (I know where that goes)

I am assuming I do need hull letters/numbers on the boat. Yes?

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Donna
A little clarification might help...
Are you saying the old Documentation had no HIN?
How about the registration - no HIN included?

or are you saying they show a # but you can't find it on the boat?

Have you looked at Hull ID Numbers if the boat was manufactured or imported after 1972 it should have a HIN

If the boat was previously documented it should also have Doc # permanently affixed - usually in engine rm
"The vessel must have the official number permanently affixed in block-type Arabic numerals of not less than 3 inches in height, preceded by the letters “NO .” on some clearly visible interior integral structural part of the vessel."

Some owners have documented their vessels but never complied w/ the numbering reqm'ts above (my boat's PO didn't - so I had to take care of it)

Look for the HIN Hull Identification Number inbossed into the gelcoat on the transom IF your boat was built after 1 Nov 1972. Some times over agressive refinishing, etc makes tnem hard to find.

The boat name and port need to be on the transom. The bow should have the boat name as well. The state sticker goes on the forward half of the vessel on the port side. I suspect the old is already there.

We just bought a new to us boat and were told not to expect to receive the new Coast Guard documentation for up to 90 days.

Russell Clifton said:

We just bought a new to us boat and were told not to expect to receive the new Coast Guard documentation for up to 90 days.

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Took mine almost 5 months to get returned.



@ Donna: What year/make/model boat do you have? Fiberglass hull?

When crawling down, around in ER have you looked up, down, under and on top of every surface for the mentioned Official NO? It should be there. Mine was installed in the Lazarette, on one of the main beams. Sometimes its labeled "Off NO XXXXXXX" or just "NO XXXXXXX".

Regarding the HIN (Hull Identification Number) that's imbedded in the starboard side of the transom, usually about a couple inches below the rubrail. In the off chance you have a Wood veneer transom it would be on the very aft most starboard side of the hull, within the last 2" and about the same below the rail.

Regarding USCG Documentations:

Here's how you do a search to see how your vessel is listed in the Govt database. Office of Science and Technology

Use either the OFF No option if you know it, or vessel name.

For fresh applications you can see if/when your app is processed because your date/info will 'appear' in current owner category as it's processed. The wheels of bureaucracy do move exceedingly slow but this way you can watch to see when you see progress.

You should be able to find the HIN near the top of the transom on the starboard side. When Mexico went through its TIP clean up process a few years ago, many of the boats that got impounded were impounded because NO HIN could be found to match to the TIP.
If your boat was surveyed before purchase, this is something your surveyor should have pointed out -- it is the means by which the boat he (she) surveyed is uniquely identified.

There is no need to put the name on the bow for a recreational vessel.
The name on the stern has to easily readable so extremely exotic fonts are not allowed, but no one really pays attention to that.
If there are no numbers in the engine room simple stick on numbers from a hardware store are fine, but put a few coats of epoxy or polyurethane or varnish over them.

If you plan to leave US waters shortly after buying a boat, when applying for a new document ask for expedited service and you might get it in less than two weeks. You will pay for FedEx delivery but get it quickly.

Good chance that HIN number is covered with a paint. Need to be visible. When I purchase my boat, the title had USG numbers instead the HIN. That was wrong - title had to have HIN numbers. I found the HIN numbers and went to DMV. They were embarrassed that they issue a title with wrong numbers and replace the title quickly with correct numbers for free. You can not have documentation numbers as HIN numbers on title - at least in FL.

Oh jeez! Thanks all. I see another crawl around project coming.

So I do not need the number on the outside of the boat then?

Donna said:

Oh jeez! Thanks all. I see another crawl around project coming.

So I do not need the number on the outside of the boat then?

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The Coast Guard "Official No." -- if the boat is documented -- doesn't need to be outside the boat. Should be inside, and only removable with some destruction involved (hence the recommendations to epoxy over the numbers). Shouldn't be much crawling around necessary; if you can't find the numbers with a decent look, just add them somewhere below that you can easily reach.

Assuming your boat is "new enough" (see note about post-1972), the HIN should already be on the outside of the boat, embossed into the fiberglass or stamped into the wood or whatever, placed there by the manufacturer... in letters usually about an inch high (or less) and virtually unreadable from any distance at all.. and often even unreadable from up close if filled in with paint or wax or whatever.


-Chris

Unless you plan to use the boat commercially or spend a lot of time in foreign waters, there is no real reason to get documented in the first place unless perhaps your insurance company demands it.

When you have a documented boat, you are not allowed to display state numbering on the boat. In Michigan, they assign an MC number in order to get the boat into their computer system, you still can not display the state number though. As stated in several posts, you do need to have the doc number properly attached to the interior per the directions. Documentation number and HIN are two different things. The HIN is assigned to the boat by the manufacturer similar to a VIN in a car. The documentation number is assigned by the Coast Guard Vessel Documentation Center and stays with the boat even if the boat is sold. Good luck finding them.

78puget-trawler said:

Unless you plan to use the boat commercially or spend a lot of time in foreign waters, there is no real reason to get documented in the first place unless perhaps your insurance company demands it.

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Usually it is a lender that wants it more so than insurance.

Something to do with a preferred mortgage.

http://www.marinedocumentations.com/first_preferred.html

The First Preferred Ship's Mortgage

A First Preferred Ship's Mortgage is a mortgage recorded against a vessel documented with the United States Coast Guard. It is protected under the Ship's Mortgage Act of 1920, and takes precedence over all liens other than preferred Maritime Liens. The First Preferred Ship's Mortgage secures not only the note described, but also any future extensions or advances against the vessel.

As Mortagee of the vessel you may withhold disbursing of the funds until the documentation agent has received all papers necessary to file the First Preferred Ship's Mortgage and have the right to see all papers pertaining to the vessel. You may also require, from time to time, additional statements from the owner to further guarantee the security of the note. If you feel a change in the borrower's financial position endangers the debt, you have the ability to call the note.

The First Preferred Ship's Mortgage assures the mortgagee the owner will properly insure the vessel and refrain from encumbering the vessel. The mortgagee will be notified if the vessel is seized, libeled, or detained by any person or country within 15 days and discharge it from same. With the First Preferred Ship's Mortgage, the owner will comply with all state, local, and U.S. laws and keep vessel document current and on board the vessel, along with a copy of the Mortgage. The mortgage is assured the owner will not leave the country without intending to return, abandon the vessel or sell, mortgage, or charter the vessel without the consent of the mortgagee

Donna said:

Oh jeez! Thanks all. I see another crawl around project coming.

So I do not need the number on the outside of the boat then?

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You should have the HIN on the outside of the boat. In US waters, you are not likely to need it unless some question arises as to the actual identity of the boat. In that context, the documentation number will not suffice and the USCG would expect to see the HIN embossed on the hull.

If you go to Mexico, the Mexican government will definitely want to see the HIN when confirming that your boat is legally present -- ie that it has a valid TIP (or that it has paid the 20% tax). Boats have been impounded in Mexico when the HIN was not readily established.

78puget-trawler said:

Unless you plan to use the boat commercially or spend a lot of time in foreign waters, there is no real reason to get documented in the first place unless perhaps your insurance company demands it.

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It has always been documented. That is why I kept it.

Then all the numbers you need should be on the existing documentation you got at the purchase. Otherwise you can get into the USCG database and search under the boat name to find it. Enter the name and search. You can also search to see if the vessel carries liens from a previous owner that have not been cleared.


https://cgmix.uscg.mil/PSIX/PSIXSearch.aspx

Depending on the state, federal documentation MAY be a little cheaper, and there is talk about extending the renewal to something like every 2 to 5 years, which would make it cheaper still. Lenders might want it documented, as pointed out above. It may make overseas travel a little easier. But none of these are probably enough to justify the effort.

I documented mine anyway, haven't regretted it.

You should verify that your HIN matches your documentation and/or registration paperwork. It's typically on the starboard side of the transom or far aft side, just above or below the rub rail. It's not unusual to find mistakes in the paperwork; the numbers and letters are hard to read and easy to transpose. It would be much easier to clear them up now than when selling, or when an insurance claim is made.

Ok, found it in the engine room. I don't think a jackhammer could get them off.

I have owned a small 24' Sea Ray undocumented vessel and had the numbers on the outside. Thanks for clearing up my confusion as I now know I do not need to have the boat letterer do those on the bow.

As it is, it is costing me a kings ransom to have the old transom lettering removed, buffed and replaced with a more pleasing color to me.

If the boat no longer has the hull identification number on the transom go to an office supply store and order a plastic plate like the one used for a name plate. Then attach it to the transom with some 5200 or pop rivets.

Donna said:

I have owned a small 24' Sea Ray undocumented vessel and had the numbers on the outside. Thanks for clearing up my confusion as I now know I do not need to have the boat letterer do those on the bow.

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Yep, that would have been State registration numbers...

-Chris

Your HIN will be on your documentation, when it comes, and on the info you can find online. It should be on the upper right corner of the stern. The rules for displaying your Documentation Number are clear. Also the size of the letters of the name. The rules used to say that the Doc. # should be carved into your 'main beam', easier to find one on a wooden sailboat.

I had a sign shop in Philly engrave a piece of wood which I then fitted and glued into our sailboat.

You can look up the existing documentation using the boat number. From there you should be able to get the HIN. This assumes you don't have the previous documentation certificate, which will have the same info.

If you get the new documentation withint 90 days you are doing well. It can take up to 6 months. It's not the shining side of the USCG.

I'm confused by a previous post about getting a state title with a documentation number on it. My understanding was that if a boat is documented, states are not allowed to issue titles for it. A single title source (the USCG) is one of the primary points of vessel documentation. It's like a deed registry for land.

Donna said:

Ok, found it in the engine room. I don't think a jackhammer could get them off.

I have owned a small 24' Sea Ray undocumented vessel and had the numbers on the outside. Thanks for clearing up my confusion as I now know I do not need to have the boat letterer do those on the bow.

As it is, it is costing me a kings ransom to have the old transom lettering removed, buffed and replaced with a more pleasing color to me.

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What transom lettering are you having removed?

We have a nice, new Maryland title, and a nice new, reinstated, USCG documentation. No numbers on the hull, save for the MD biannual stickers which display the documentation number.

Probably about 50 different rules for this.

78puget-trawler said:

What transom lettering are you having removed?

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The name and port. NOT changing the name, but are changing the port. Lettering will stay the same, just a color change from bimini blue to coral.

Russell Clifton said:

We just bought a new to us boat and were told not to expect to receive the new Coast Guard documentation for up to 90 days.

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Just got my new to me boat document transferred and it WILL take three months for the Coast Guard to process.

DHeckrotte said:

We have a nice, new Maryland title, and a nice new, reinstated, USCG documentation. No numbers on the hull, save for the MD biannual stickers which display the documentation number.

Probably about 50 different rules for this.

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Cool, so you could finance the boat with a lien on the USCG documentation, then sell the boat using the MD title without ever paying off the loan. Sounds like a good way to upgrade boats.....

The same issue exists for cars, which is why titling on one state typically requires turning in the title from the previous state.