Fuel flow sensor

Fotoman · Apr 14, 2011

I'm playing with the idea of installing a fuel flow sensor with a dedicated gauge or to hook up to my Garmin (NMEA 2000). But all I am seeing are sensors that work for gasoline only (like the Lowrance EP-60R). Even the one made by Garmin works for diesel only. Is there a sensor made for diesel?

r-rossow · Apr 14, 2011

How about Floscan's with a NMEA 2000 converter?

Fotoman · Apr 14, 2011

Still need a diesel compatibile sensor. That seems to be the problem.

JD · Apr 14, 2011

Fotoman wrote:
Still need a diesel compatibile sensor. That seems to be the problem.

*I'm missing something Flowscan is for Diesel and it will drive your 4000.* What's missing?

*

Tidahapah · Apr 14, 2011

Flowscan is the only way to go.
Navman (Northstar) did put one out but to my dissapointment found that they are not very accurate.
If you need one go with the Flowscan.

Benn

markpierce · Apr 14, 2011

The Floscan 6510/BOS-2K flowmeter (top-right gauge)*comes with diesel flow sensors.

Codger2 · Apr 14, 2011

I'm another happy customer.** Floscan Instrument Co. Inc.

Pull down the recreational menu at the top of the FloScan page and take your pick.

jleonard · Apr 14, 2011

I would add one but my Lehman sips so gingerly the flow wouldn't register.

*

Codger2 · Apr 14, 2011

jleonard wrote:
I would add one but my Lehman sips so gingerly the flow wouldn't register.

******* Not true......Check out the various diesel models.

*

-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Thursday 14th of April 2011 09:38:56 PM

markpierce · Apr 14, 2011

jleonard wrote:
I would add one but my Lehman sips so gingerly the flow wouldn't register.

*

*One can choose among Floscan*meters/gauges with ranges of 0-5, 0-10, 0-32, 0-50, and 0-100 gallons per hour.* Seahorse's gauge is 0-32 while Coot's is 0-10, so Seahorse's consumption rate*seems to*expected to be a*lot higher than the Coot.* I'm sure you could find a gauge appropriate for your Lehman.*

*

Codger2 · Apr 14, 2011

markpierce wrote:

*One can choose among Floscan*meters/gauges with ranges of 0-5, 0-10, 0-32, 0-50, and 0-100 gallons per hour.* Seahorse's gauge is 0-32 while Coot's is 0-10, so Seahorse's consumption rate*seems to*expected to be a*lot higher than the Coot.

* * * * The 0-10 gph guage would have been fine for my boat at normal operating conditions. (2000 rpm) Since the Floscan will tell you much more than just how many gallons you are burning per hour and the total fuel consumed, what happens when you have a severe fuel leak & the fuel flow inceases to 15+ gph? I wanted a scale that not only showed me my normal operating conditions but also abnormal conditions. (Fuel leaks, prop fouling, injector problems, etc.) That's why I have a 0-32 scale.

*******

*

markpierce · Apr 15, 2011

Good point, Seahorse.* I'm expecting a normal consumption rate of a gallon or two*an hour or less, and I don't believe the John Deere 4045 is capable of consuming faster than five or so gallons.* Thus, a 10-gallon gauge should be adequate to disclose abnormal consumption/loss for the Coot.*

http://www.deere.com/en_US/rg/ESC/SpecSheet/MarineProp/4045DFM70_A_S0_R0.html

What're the normal and*maximum consumption rates*for Seahorse?

-- Edited by markpierce on Friday 15th of April 2011 01:21:04 AM

FF · Apr 15, 2011

Gas units consist of ONE unit that measures the flow,

Most diesel setups require 2 sensors as the return fuel must be deducted from the supplied fuel.

Weather a Ford that may leak fuel , but not return it can be operated on a gas style setup is a good question.

With patience the Flow Scan can be accurate to about 1%.

jleonard · Apr 15, 2011

"*I'm sure you could find a gauge appropriate for your Lehman"

I'm sure I could, but my point was...why would I bother? The consumption is so low and predictable*I would not even consider adding one.

rwidman · Apr 15, 2011

SeaHorse II wrote:
I'm another happy customer.** Floscan Instrument Co. Inc.

Pull down the recreational menu at the top of the FloScan page and take your pick.

I used their selector and this is what I got:

"There are no results found!"*

Volvo TAMD 41P*

*

Fotoman · Apr 15, 2011

Thanks guys. The Floscan seems to be a good solution but way out of the budget I was willing to spend on this. I thought I could just get a $75 sensor and hook it up to my GPS and be done with it. And it's not like I really need this information, it would be nice but not essential.

Steve · Apr 15, 2011

Ron, I installed a Floscan on my (previous boat)*2002 Camano with a TAMD 41, I don't remember the rest of the model digits it was about 200hp turbo and after cooled. If you are interested in installing one they might have the correct unit if you call or e'mail them. I found it to be relatively easy to install and very accurate after a couple of simple calibrations. I do have a couple of pictures of the installation if you are interested PM me.

Steve W

-- Edited by Steve on Friday 15th of April 2011 08:08:22 AM

Codger2 · Apr 15, 2011

markpierce wrote:What're the normal and*maximum consumption rates*for Seahorse?

________________________________________________________________

*Mark:

The Cummins 330B is rated at 315hp @2800rpm. The table below shows the fuel flow at that rpm. (2800) I don't, however, run at anywhere near that. (Normally, 1800-2000rpm.)

*

*

-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Friday 15th of April 2011 08:51:05 AM

markpierce · Apr 15, 2011

jleonard wrote:
"*I'm sure you could find a gauge appropriate for your Lehman"

I'm sure I could, but my point was...why would I bother? The consumption is so low and predictable*I would not even consider adding one.

*Understood.* Even my builder said one wasn't necessary and mildly discouraged me*from getting*one.* But for me, I like the immediate feedback.* It makes me a better driver.

*

-- Edited by markpierce on Friday 15th of April 2011 11:09:52 AM

jleonard · Apr 15, 2011

"It makes me a better driver."

Gotcha. Plus there's coolness factor in having gizmos.

rwidman · Apr 15, 2011

Steve wrote:
Ron, I installed a Floscan on my (previous boat)*2002 Camano with a TAMD 41, I don't remember the rest of the model digits it was about 200hp turbo and after cooled. If you are interested in installing one they might have the correct unit if you call or e'mail them. I found it to be relatively easy to install and very accurate after a couple of simple calibrations. I do have a couple of pictures of the installation if you are interested PM me.

Steve W

-- Edited by Steve on Friday 15th of April 2011 08:08:22 AM

Thanks.* It's a pretty common engine so I can't imagine why it didn't come up in their website.

It's just a wish, not a necessity.* It seems to me like I priced it once before and it was $900 or so.* It would take*me a long time to save that much in fuel.

I would want something that interfaces with my Garmin 5208s to show fuel mileage so I could pick the most economical speed.

*

*

Codger2 · Apr 15, 2011

rwidman wrote:* It would take*me a long time to save that much in fuel.

* * * * Not so much any more. (As fuel prices climb, FloScan works even better!)

*

Fotoman · Apr 18, 2011

I'm still thinking about that and wondering why the Lowrance would work on gas engine and not on diesel. Is it just because of the return line? If so I could still install it on my Lehman since the return flow is minimal. it would still give me a good idea of the consumption. I think I'll reach out to Lowrance to get their view on this.

ralphyost · Apr 18, 2011

Here is how I measure real fuel flow:

Fill up. Record the # of gallons you take and the engine hours at fill up. Create a spread sheet with this data. Keep logging this each time you fill up with fuel, and even if you dont. Start calculating the average fuel consumption PER HOUR. It should show you what you already know about your engine's fuel consumption.

R.

Carey · Apr 18, 2011

ralphyost wrote:
Here is how I measure real fuel flow:

Fill up. Record the # of gallons you take and the engine hours at fill up. Create a spread sheet with this data. Keep logging this each time you fill up with fuel, and even if you dont. Start calculating the average fuel consumption PER HOUR. It should show you what you already know about your engine's fuel consumption.

R.

Sorry, but that doesn't begin to record any kind of average for me, as every time out on the boat is unique. If, I were to go to all that trouble over a period of ten to fifteen years, I should actually arrive at an average, but not before then. On one trip, I might leave at full cruise, due to heavy weather and the fact that my boat performs better at full cruise, and the next time, given flat water and beautiful sunshine, and no significant competition for anchorage or dock space, I might choose to go slow, or basically half the speed of the prior trip. These are just a couple variables that might effect my average. For me, at this point in my boating life, a very general, best guess average (as long as I can afford it), is good enough. If I were to worry the whole thing to death, I would have to have a flow meter of some sort. But, at this time, I shall treat fuel consumption as a necessary component of life itself, and simply pay the bill, and damn well make sure I can do so.

*

rwidman · Apr 19, 2011

ralphyost wrote:
Here is how I measure real fuel flow:

Fill up. Record the # of gallons you take and the engine hours at fill up. Create a spread sheet with this data. Keep logging this each time you fill up with fuel, and even if you dont. Start calculating the average fuel consumption PER HOUR. It should show you what you already know about your engine's fuel consumption.

I do this.* Still, my fuel consumption varies greatly with engine speed so knowing an average doesn't tell me a lot.

I know I get better fuel mileage at 2K RPM than 3K RPM but if I had better data I could determine the optimum engine speed.

Also, I have no way of knowing how accurate my fuel gauges are.* If they read 1/4 tank, is that really 11.25 gallons or could it be 20 gallons or 2 gallons?* I can fill my tanks to "F" and still add fuel.

*

*

rwidman · Apr 19, 2011

Old Stone wrote:
"Also, I have no way of knowing how accurate my fuel gauges are. If they read 1/4 tank, is that really 11.25 gallons or could it be 20 gallons or 2 gallons? I can fill my tanks to "F" and still add fuel."

Ron - Did you special order those guages? Were they very expensive? These speciality items are often very hard to find, so if you would share your source with your Buddies here...............

They are the stock Volvo gauges.

*

*

sunchaser · Apr 19, 2011

Nothing the matter with gizmos, lord knows I*have enough of them. For go fasts burning 20 + gph, Floscans or on engine "computers"*are just the ticket. The assumption though that floscans will yield financial benefit to a small trawler may be a bit fleeting. Your best combination of speed and fuel burn will be at about 0.9 X the square root of the water line length. Even though the constant is 1.34, unless you are a sail boat that constant is at best elusive and likely too high.

SInce few of us want to cruise at 0.9, I use 1.1 to 1.2 for my DeFever and which equates to about 7.8 to 8.0 knots for the approximate 44' water line length. This works out to 1725 - 1750*RPM in relatively smooth water. With a flow scan I'm sure I could improve fuel burn by a tenth or two gph at the most or save about $400 per year. And best you measure the return, even for a Lehman, or your numbers may be gibberish. This all assumes of course that floscans work perfectly, which they do not. If you don't have digital tachs, floscans are even less relevant IMHO.

So gizmo lovers, by all means hook a floscan or two up. Like Ralph Yost, I measure my tanks daily, when cruising, against the installed " tank's mounted yardsticks." It seems to work out to 4. 1 to 4.4*(or so) gph all the time with genset sometimes on, hummmmmmm.

*

rwidman · Apr 19, 2011

sunchaser wrote:
Nothing the matter with gizmos, lord knows I*have enough of them. For go fasts burning 20 + gph, Floscans or on engine "computers"*are just the ticket. The assumption though that floscans will yield financial benefit to a small trawler may be a bit fleeting. Your best combination of speed and fuel burn will be at about 0.9 X the square root of the water line length. Even though the constant is 1.34, unless you are a sail boat that constant is at best elusive and likely too high.

SInce few of us want to cruise at 0.9, I use 1.1 to 1.2 for my DeFever and which equates to about 7.8 to 8.0 knots for the approximate 44' water line length. This works out to 1725 - 1750*RPM in relatively smooth water. With a flow scan I'm sure I could improve fuel burn by a tenth or two gph at the most or save about $400 per year. And best you measure the return, even for a Lehman, or your numbers may be gibberish. This all assumes of course that floscans work perfectly, which they do not. If you don't have digital tachs, floscans are even less relevant IMHO.

So gizmo lovers, by all means hook a floscan or two up. Like Ralph Yost, I measure my tanks daily, when cruising, against the installed " tank's mounted yardsticks." It seems to work out to 4. 1 to 4.4*(or so) gph all the time with genset sometimes on, hummmmmmm.

If I could stick my tanks or had sight gauges, I could solve the problem of not knowing reliably exactly how much fuel I have in them.* As it is, I get nervous when the gauges approach 1/4 tank and fuel up when I might not need to.* Likewise, I don't know how close to full my tanks are when I am fuelling.

I just looked and I've spent about $500 per year in fuel so I can't justify a "gizmo" purely for fuel savings, but if speeding up a little only decreased efficiency by a little, I would probably do it sometimes.*

*

ralphyost · Apr 19, 2011

Fuel burn is proportionate to your boat speed. If you wanna save fuel, you have to go slower.

Adding a floscan wont change that. Its physics.

*

Get a small, measured can of diesel - say 3 gallons. Run at nornal cruise speed (say 1800 RPM for a Lehman 120 engine) and it should take you more than 1 hour to burn through the 3 gallons. Do the calculations of how much time it took to burn up the three gallons and there you have it - your actual fuel burn rate at normal cruise speed.

My tank filling calculations provide the same figure but averaged over a wider degree of conditions.

*

What else is there? Its not complicated.

*

R.

-- Edited by ralphyost on Tuesday 19th of April 2011 12:22:53 PM

Fuel flow sensor

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