They are covering the maximum you can generally be held responsible for, but it's not required by law, unfortunately. No policy should be without it however and no insurer should write coverage without it.
Progressive insurance
- Thread starter Capt Kangeroo
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
They are covering the maximum you can generally be held responsible for, but it's not required by law, unfortunately. No policy should be without it however and no insurer should write coverage without it.
When will an insurer investigate for fraud?
Well, not typically on a small claim. However, on major claims they will fact check to start and then if something doesn't feel right, they'll investigate. If a boat catches fire at a dock and is destroyed, they're definitely going to find out if someone was living on it. If a boat mysteriously sinks at sea, they're going to find out where you stood on payments on the boat. They also know the signs of fraudulent action by those in divorce proceedings.
As to personal belongings in a house or on a boat, I'd suggest everyone have an inventory of items and, in today's world where it's so easy, have current photos of every room, every cabin on a boat. While there may be an agreed value on the boat or house (although not on many policies where it's stated but not agreed), there isn't on personal items. It's amazing how the flea market painting is suddenly a Picasso when destroyed. However, most policies on homes require those items and jewelry to be under separate policies as the limits for those items on basic policies is generally low. Just because you have a limit of $100k on contents, doesn't mean that's what they'll pay, and whether you have replacement value or depreciated value is a huge difference. Here is a typical personal effects clause.
And back to Pau's point number one. If you own any insurance policy you haven't read, you need to go read it soon. Every word. Every exclusion. Every requirement placed on you.
I've read some pretty tough exclusions on policies from very reputable insurers. Here's one on theft:
Basically if you don't lock your doors, you're not covered per that.
And one on sails and canvas:
So, hurricane Matthew destroyed your canvas. Not covered per that.
I've seen people on the lake have boats sink due to muskrats eating through the bellows and find out they had a vermin exclusion.
Well, not typically on a small claim. However, on major claims they will fact check to start and then if something doesn't feel right, they'll investigate. If a boat catches fire at a dock and is destroyed, they're definitely going to find out if someone was living on it. If a boat mysteriously sinks at sea, they're going to find out where you stood on payments on the boat. They also know the signs of fraudulent action by those in divorce proceedings.
As to personal belongings in a house or on a boat, I'd suggest everyone have an inventory of items and, in today's world where it's so easy, have current photos of every room, every cabin on a boat. While there may be an agreed value on the boat or house (although not on many policies where it's stated but not agreed), there isn't on personal items. It's amazing how the flea market painting is suddenly a Picasso when destroyed. However, most policies on homes require those items and jewelry to be under separate policies as the limits for those items on basic policies is generally low. Just because you have a limit of $100k on contents, doesn't mean that's what they'll pay, and whether you have replacement value or depreciated value is a huge difference. Here is a typical personal effects clause.
“Personal effects” are any items owned by the insured that
do not exceed in value the amount stated on the
declaration sheets or in Section B3(e) below and are
normally worn or carried on a person while on board the
insured vessel(s). Personal effects do not include jewelry,
watches, cell phones, PDA’s, eye wear, furs, fine arts,
collectibles, money, credit, debit or other bankcards,
checks, notes, stocks, bonds, or any other financial
instruments, securities or intangible property.
do not exceed in value the amount stated on the
declaration sheets or in Section B3(e) below and are
normally worn or carried on a person while on board the
insured vessel(s). Personal effects do not include jewelry,
watches, cell phones, PDA’s, eye wear, furs, fine arts,
collectibles, money, credit, debit or other bankcards,
checks, notes, stocks, bonds, or any other financial
instruments, securities or intangible property.
And back to Pau's point number one. If you own any insurance policy you haven't read, you need to go read it soon. Every word. Every exclusion. Every requirement placed on you.
I've read some pretty tough exclusions on policies from very reputable insurers. Here's one on theft:
Theft is only covered if the items are stolen from locked
premises and there are visible signs of forced entry.
premises and there are visible signs of forced entry.
Basically if you don't lock your doors, you're not covered per that.
And one on sails and canvas:
Sails and canvas damaged or lost due solely to
foreseeable wind and weather conditions are not covered.
foreseeable wind and weather conditions are not covered.
So, hurricane Matthew destroyed your canvas. Not covered per that.
I've seen people on the lake have boats sink due to muskrats eating through the bellows and find out they had a vermin exclusion.
Mule
Guru
Pau Hana, "Progressive doesn't cover liveaboards- if you are a liveaboard and knew this"
I answered the questions in the agents office, gave her a check. Had I known their policy concerning live aboards I would not have used them. Progressive out of Houston had insured for 2 years. I looked upon it as just a transfer to get an agent closer to me. No one told me, (me thinking this just a paper formality for a loyal low risk client) this was a new application and my history meant nothing.
Even at that, their policy of no live aboards, I have no problem with. What I do have a problem with is that I was not covered on the trip from St Pete to Vero and did not know it through no fault of my own. I pay Dr's, mechanics and other specialist to do a job and part of that is for them to look after my interest. I should not have to be a specialist in every field in order to protect my interest. If that is the case then why do I need a Dr, lawyer, insurance agent and so forth.
BTW, I did not have an increase in premiums when established insurance in FL.
I answered the questions in the agents office, gave her a check. Had I known their policy concerning live aboards I would not have used them. Progressive out of Houston had insured for 2 years. I looked upon it as just a transfer to get an agent closer to me. No one told me, (me thinking this just a paper formality for a loyal low risk client) this was a new application and my history meant nothing.
Even at that, their policy of no live aboards, I have no problem with. What I do have a problem with is that I was not covered on the trip from St Pete to Vero and did not know it through no fault of my own. I pay Dr's, mechanics and other specialist to do a job and part of that is for them to look after my interest. I should not have to be a specialist in every field in order to protect my interest. If that is the case then why do I need a Dr, lawyer, insurance agent and so forth.
BTW, I did not have an increase in premiums when established insurance in FL.
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That would have infuriated me too. However, you merit at least part of the blame as it was partly through fault of your own. Almost all bad news from insurers still comes by snail mail. Most policies require it. It sometimes comes without the agent even being aware. But cancellations are sent that way. Incidentally, tax notices, IRS letters and many other legal documents that way. For that reason it is crucial to have a handling system for your mail that you see it quickly. All ours gets scanned for us and we check nightly, then request any be sent that we need. Should you have been called? Yes, but it wouldn't have served as legal notice. Should the agent have contacted you? Yes, but this wasn't something generated from the agent's office. You cannot depend on others to keep you out of trouble. They don't always do the job as you think they should. The insurer owes you 30 days notice and it's critical you see your mail within less time than that. There are other legal notices from different sources that don't even give you 30 days, as few as 10.
For anyone with problems seeing their mail quickly, I recommend St. Brendan's or similar. We hate that there is any snail mail as we try to do everything online. We get none of our bills by snail mail. We pay none by mail. So nearly everything we get by mail is some sort of official document. Property taxes, insurance notices, public meetings on zoning, notices of tree overhanging street too low (yes, that is one and 14 days to remedy and provide proof). Ironically, almost all the snail mail items are those that one can least afford to miss. Now with some insurers you can get email notices on certain things.
We actually have an employee do for us what St. Brendan's does.
Did you read your policy? Did it say anything?
I've known agents to play games too. Asking questions in a way to be able to put the check mark where they desire. I've also heard many times comments to just answer what you're asked. You're not seeing what the agent is entering. However, they should give you a printout of all items answered, but often they don't give you the actual "detailed application" they just entered. That can be a real problem especially from inexperienced commissioned sales agents. Now we have those companies doing it all by phone. No thanks. I require a copy of the policy before I sign and on boat coverage it greatly influenced me. One of the largest told all the things that separated them from others. However, their policy had exclusions I wouldn't live with.
The written document governs. Proving that an agent told you this or you told them that is nearly impossible, and even if you do then that goes back against the agency under errors and omissions, not the insurer.
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Mule, it's not the insurance company ethics that are in question here. You bought a policy, failed to read and understand it and then complain that you were dropped and without coverage. Now you publicly state that you didn't "know to lie" to the insurance company to keep your policy in effect. Your policy was fraudulently maintained by your failure to disclose accurately your liveaboard status from the start of living aboard.
Seems like you brought this on yourself then you want to lie to keep it going. Most honest folks would have chalked this up to a learning experience and changed the way they shop for and purchase insurance. If you want to teach someone a lesson, start within.
