Ferro Cement Boat

utazo89 said:

It would be nice to know, how this one was built? Does anyone has a source to look up a particular FC boat building history?

1973 55' Port McNiel Trawler Custom Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I don't mind to visit the boat, since it is about half an hour drive from me, but if it is a ' falling apart ' type, it is not worth it.
Opinions?

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a Gardner and a variable pitch prop!.. wow.
Looks like a lot of boat for the buck.
Look into insurance (even just liability only) and if it is available figure that into the deal. The boat is equipped pretty well.. I had much of the same stuff on Volunteer and it was a great boat that was also very sea kindly, quiet, dry and very fuel efficient. I logged 100's of hours @ 7.9 kts @ 2.3 G.P.H... there isn't a boat built today with the comfort,room and economy at any price.

HOLLYWOOD

I had a marine repair and salvage business. I worked on all boat types except for ferro-cement. I felt the liability was too great for the reasons most of you have been discussing. In my view, a f/c boat is a hollowed out brick.
Rebar has bumps to grip the cement. It was designed for use on stationary objects. I've never even heard of stainless rebar. They do use epoxy coated rebar in bridges, but how well that would hold up on the ocean is open to question. Cement attached to smooth stainless steel will have no grip to resist cracking and other movement.
Stainless steel frame and rebar if available is probably 304, but that corrodes in the absence of air. Most builders of f/c boats are amateurs and probably have no knowledge of the need for 316L or 317 stainless steel.
An old f/c boat at a good price would probably be an ok liveaboard or bay boat.

It`s old enough for build issues to have well and truly exhibited themselves.
Why is it, as per the advt, to be inspected on the hard? So you can examine the hull from the get go, or because something negative happens if you put it in the water?

One would need to have a extremely good sense of humor to purchase any ferro boat.

Lepke said:

I had a marine repair and salvage business. I worked on all boat types except for ferro-cement. I felt the liability was too great for the reasons most of you have been discussing. In my view, a f/c boat is a hollowed out brick.
Rebar has bumps to grip the cement. It was designed for use on stationary objects. I've never even heard of stainless rebar. They do use epoxy coated rebar in bridges, but how well that would hold up on the ocean is open to question. Cement attached to smooth stainless steel will have no grip to resist cracking and other movement.
Stainless steel frame and rebar if available is probably 304, but that corrodes in the absence of air. Most builders of f/c boats are amateurs and probably have no knowledge of the need for 316L or 317 stainless steel.
An old f/c boat at a good price would probably be an ok liveaboard or bay boat.

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So what your saying is you don't know squat about ferro boats or about concrete construction. Ferro boats for starters do not actually use rebar but have a armature grid that can be made of many different types of materials. There are plenty of examples still doing a decent job as boats all over the world.. most owners would take the "hollowed out brick" comment rather personally. The "perfect" ferro boat would probably use fiberglass as its armature as corrosion isn't a issue
HOLLYWOOD

Usually ferro boats will show if they are going to fail after about 10/15 years. This unit looks pretty good but also from the photos would need a bit of fairing. The Gardner engine from the look of it is not a 6LX but a 6L3B a beast of an engine that I would absolutely love to have in a boat especially fitted with a variable pitch prop.
Yes they are hard to get insured but at that price and it would be probably less it would make a great coastal cruising live a board.
Love all the cast bronze fixtures and fittings.

I think the biggest negative with a ferrocement boat is the perceptions of others, particularly when it comes to resale time. Basically I think you have to consider that the boat may well have no value in the future when you want to sell. So, if the boat is sound AND you can afford to eat the cost of the boat at some future date, then by all means go ferro if you like the boat.

Tipperary looks like a wonderful craft. Price is right for size, condition and accommodations.

In const industry... Over 40 years I've worked with concrete/cement/polymers/reinforcements and hybrid items utilizing such. If built to highest standards a ferro boat can be A-OK. Seems this [Tipperary] is one.

Seems like good value, but instrumentation may require some dollars and engine looked at very carefully by an experienced Gardner guy. Know of a Gardner owner in the PNW who had to fly in help from England.

Gotta love the cast iron radiators on that boat

Good site & good advice: Buying a Ferroboat

Murray

Not sure the site you mentioned gives me a warm and snuggy feeling about ferro cement boats. especially the notation of steel types and shapes to use.

sunchaser said:

Murray

Not sure the site you mentioned gives me a warm and snuggy feeling about ferro cement boats. especially the notation of steel types and shapes to use.

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Information is good. Aren't there fiberglass boats made with nothing but chopped strands and no mat?

MurrayM said:

Information is good. Aren't there fiberglass boats made with nothing but chopped strands and no mat?

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Yup!

Thing is: FRP, wood, steel, aluminum, ferro, and other material boats can either be constructed correctly or incorrectly.

IMO: Comes down to builder's integrity as well as builder's knowledge for how to build correctly with material used.

Trick is: For older boat new purchaser to determine how well the original construction was and the way it's been treated by PO's. The purchaser's or the surveyor's sound knowledge of "best construction practices" regarding building material that was used is paramount

Happy Boat-Construction Daze! - Art

TDunn said:

I think the biggest negative with a ferrocement boat is the perceptions of others, particularly when it comes to resale time. Basically I think you have to consider that the boat may well have no value in the future when you want to sell. So, if the boat is sound AND you can afford to eat the cost of the boat at some future date, then by all means go ferro if you like the boat.

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No first hand knowledge, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night.

From what I've read, if constructed correctly, they are a great boat. Having said that, the price seems still a lot. Everything would have to be perfect on the boat.

hollywood8118 said:

Ferro boats for starters do not actually use rebar but have a armature grid that can be made of many different types of materials. HOLLYWOOD

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This is what the listing says about the hull:

The Steel-Reinforced Plaster (SRP) technique, as used here with 3/16" stainless rod and copper-nickel mesh as the framework, is well-known for longevity and durability

Bendable self healing concrete repairs it's own cracks.
Some day maybe built into a boat.

Art said:

Yup!
IMO: Comes down to builder's integrity as well as builder's knowledge for how to build correctly with material used.

The purchaser's or the surveyor's sound knowledge of "best construction practices" regarding building material that was used is paramount

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The add says it was built here:
Samson Marine (facilities in British Columbia and Tacoma, Washington)

I wonder, if there is a surveyor today, who is specializing in FC boats?

fijigone said:

This boat came on market some years ago at $125000 and I lusted for it then. I love gardner engines and it is such a lovely design. Still out of my price range!!

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Do you know, if it was sold, or was sitting on the hard since?

55' ferro

I only know it was for sale then and it was in water. If you are not using it is is much cheaper sitting on the hard than paying for a 60' slip. I have looked all over the net for more information and found nothing. The add is still up for it at $125000.

Current ad lists it @ $79K. Are there 2 ads or are we talking about 2 different boats?

55' ferro

try this Boat for sale - Port McNiel Shipyard Trawler - 55'


hope it works

Heck of a drop in price...$46K...

A bit of Gardner 8L3B rebuild.
This is the 6L3B

These engines have individual cylinder heads are a lot bigger than the 6LXB that has 2 cylinder heads

Tidahapah said:

These engines have individual cylinder heads are a lot bigger than the 6LXB that has 2 cylinder heads

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Is that a good thing, or a bad one?

utazo89 said:

This is what the listing says about the hull:

The Steel-Reinforced Plaster (SRP) technique, as used here with 3/16" stainless rod and copper-nickel mesh as the framework, is well-known for longevity and durability

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Not sure what you are asking about my statement above... my point of the statement was the reference to "rebar" not being used in a proper ferro hull

Hollywood

utazo, not good or bad. Just that they are completely different engines.

hollywood8118 said:

Not sure what you are asking about my statement above... my point of the statement was the reference to "rebar" not being used in a proper ferro hull

Hollywood

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I was not really asking anything. I just quoted the listing info, saying, it could be one of the better build, based on what you are saying. If it is was really built by an experienced shipyard, it makes sense that they used the long-lasting method.
Unfortunately, none of the listings shows solid proof, where the boat was really built.

Hello skipperdude, my opinion is that you need to approach this vessel as a fun "project boat." Let me explain what I mean - even if it is in perfect condition, the truth is that a ferroboat has pretty much no value on the market. You have to think that you are investing in something that is fun to own and use and it is entirely sunk cost. Do not expect it to be any sort of investment. A used Nordy or Grand Banks could be an investment, but not an esoteric project boat.

If you own and use it for 10-20 years then at the end you might want to just salvage the engine, gear, windlass and other items - perhaps sell all of that for about 15-20k, then just sell off the hull for about 10-20k itself.

If you approach it in that way then make a low-ball offer on the boat, wait 3-6 months and if it doesn't sell then approach the guy again. I know all of this from my own experience both as a buyer and seller of a project boat.

If you could pick up that vessel for 45-50k and it is sound, then you'll be a happy skipper dude.

Just for your info and to see the vast difference in the engine as stated and to what I think it really is. These are the details

Mod Cyl Cap (cc) Bore & Stroke HP/RPM (idle) HP/RPM (max) Weight T
6LX 6 10450 43/4 X 6 53 @ 600 150 @ 1700 0.83
6LXB 6 10450 43/4 X 6 58 @ 600 180 @ 1850 0.83

6L3 6 18000 51/2 X 73/4 36 @ 300 102 @ 800 2.65
8L3 8 24000 51/2 X 73/4 48 @ 300 136 @ 800 3.15
6L3B 6 18000 51/2 X 73/4 36 @ 300 153 @ 1200 2.65
8L3B 8 24000 51/2 X 73/4 48 @ 300 204 @ 1200 3.15