Electronics for a Minimalist

Hi All
Question – looking for ideas. Assume buying an older boat that needs a complete overhaul/replacement of its navigation electronics. I am by nature an extreme minimalist and do not like clutter of any kind so looking for the simplest possible solution.I also dislike and am not comfortable with complex technology…for example, and I not looking to start any arguments and am by no means a zealot about it, but I like Apple products simply because they are simple with a small learning curve, they are robustly built and usually work.
I know some folks love lots displays and information ect and that’s cool, it’s just not for me.
So my criteria is:


Enough electronics for safe reliable navigation while coastal cruising in a typical powerboat...under 50 feet
Modern and up to date technology
Elegant clean look
Easy to learn and use
Fewest possible screens and displays that provide the information I need while traveling in coastal waters
Cost is what it is…willing to pay for a system that meets my criteria


Looking forward to reading your responses and ideas…thanks

Well, there are adequate nav systems that cost less than $100- a Nexus or Fire or ??? tablet running dirt cheap or free nav software. Or there are much more expensive proprietary systems- Raymarine, Garmin, Simrad and others.


The proprietary systems do a couple of things that the cheapos tablet won't:


Daylight viewable displays.
Integrate radar and navigation charts on one display.


Then there are bells and whistles that can add thousands, maybe ten thousand dollars- big and multiple displays, large radar array, engine instrumentation information displayed, etc.


I would look at one of the big three noted above and buy a minimal system: An 8" nav display, a 18" radar dome and a basic autopilot.


David

Navionics or Garmin Blue Charts on an iPad. Each under $50...iPad/iPhone not included.

If you don't spend much on navigation equipment, be sure to spend above average on your boat insurance.
Tell your insurance company to email you your policy so you can keep the paper clutter to a minimum and your life simple.

FlyWright said:

Navionics or Garmin Blue Charts on an iPad. Each under $50...iPad/iPhone not included.

Click to expand...

Sorry, this might not be applicable to Canadian waters. Not sure, really.

I have a dual screen display in my Pilothouse. I don't consider them clutter. Having two screens actually keeps the system simpler, cleaner, and easy to use.

I run SeaClear on an eleven inch screen netbook with a GPS puck connected via USB port. The charts and software are free. The system is daylight viewable and cost less than $250. On top of that I can run for 6 hours even if my boat electrical system fails. One component on the bridgedeck that I use for other things and take home when I am not using it. I also have a depth sounder (actually a fish finder) and a VHF radio. I don't need radar here on the coast of Maine.

I also have the same software on my 17" laptop if I want to go big screen.

Pgitug said:

If you don't spend much on navigation equipment, be sure to spend above average on your boat insurance.

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Oh baloney!

More equipment doesn't make you a better navigator.

To the OP, just get a system that has its own network and display everything on your iWhatevers.

FlyWright said:

Sorry, this might not be applicable to Canadian waters. Not sure, really.

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Navionics works here

As long as you effectively use your navigation instruments on each side of your nose you should be fine. Maybe get a depth sounder to go with them.

Pgitug said:

If you don't spend much on navigation equipment, be sure to spend above average on your boat insurance.
Tell your insurance company to email you your policy so you can keep the paper clutter to a minimum and your life simple.

Click to expand...

To be 100% clear!!!! Money is NOT the issue! I would happily spend 3K, 5K or even more...what I am after is simplicity and elegance in it's use and presentation.

Thanks for your replies so far everyone.

I have:
-- two main VHFs, One old before MMSI #, the new one has the MMSI # and built in GPS. The second I find extremely usefull to listen for and talk to other stations while being able to monitor 16. Vessel traffic is important in my area but also the other boats I sometimes travel with without cluttering 16
-- one handheld, mostly for the dingbat and for dockwalking when I sometimes help others to the dock.
-- one sounder at my inside station, one on the bridge, one old one for the dingbat.
-- A GPS > it's old now and the laptop it worked with died so we did the following
-- my wife and I each bought a Nexus 7 tablet with Navionics on each.

I would add a radar but the boat is getting old and it has it's own ideas about what is next on the work and affordabilty list. It would be a stand alone unit.


I keep the old GPS because it still works and on one page are the Lat/long co-ordinates in big print. It also holds most of the old routes so it still serves a purpose.

With both my main VHFs I use an auxiliary speaker as the built in ones are absolute garbage for sound volume and clarity.

Compared to many boats my setup is minimal.

Figure out what you need, look around. BIg bucks do not have to be spent although it will not be cheap.

Personally, if the old stuff works then do not be in too big a hurry to chuck it all. If it works keep it. That way you buy time and some experience to determine what you really do need and how you want it installed.

Pgitug said:

If you don't spend much on navigation equipment, be sure to spend above average on your boat insurance.
Tell your insurance company to email you your policy so you can keep the paper clutter to a minimum and your life simple.

Click to expand...

Pgitug,

I'll add my baloney to this too. Nothing to do with each other. There's lots of options for a good solution for the OP. Insurance is a risk/benefit choice, nothing to do with electronics.

Insuring is betting that you will use it at some point. I could argue to spend your money on preventing that. What the heck does electronics have to do with that?

FlyWright said:

Sorry, this might not be applicable to Canadian waters. Not sure, really.

Click to expand...

I Pad with Navionics works OK in Canada.

What's working good for me:

iPad with iSailor. Used it all over northern Puget Sound this year. Really simple, easy to use, reliable, minimal, incredibly accurate, and more info there when you need it. They have a chart package for your waters, and a very effective tides/current package that I bought, glad I did, very useful and simple. Cost effective too. Check out iSailor.

One screen: I move it from flybridge to main cabin as needed, put it on RAM mounts. You will need USB power plugs local at both stations, running on battery only will not cut it for all day runs. Dead batts will put you on the ground or rocks at the end of the day.

GPS signal: assuming your iPad is not GPS carded, from a Dual XGPS10M receiver. Picks up GPS and Glonass, it can tell when you walk it around the boat! That bluetooths to iSailor, no wires. It wants a USB plug too, though the battery will run all day; I just get tired of charging things. I leave it below on the counter near the lower helm on boat centerline. It can tell when you move from port rail to starboard, amazing stuff for 100 USD.

Software, hardware (less iPad), RAM mounts, USB power plugs, maybe $300 USD total.

Depth sounder: gotta have one, you'd be crazy to try and anchor a 50 foot boat in a cove you've never been into before without one. I've nav'ed off shore with them when everything else broke in a storm and we followed soundings on the chart at night.

VHF: assume boat has usual old VHF below, OK. Get a baeofeng hand-held and an aftermarket good antennae, maybe $60 USD. These are programmable for the stations you use the most, like marine VHF and weather. Small, light, portable. The right antennae will about triple the effective range of these small radios.

The next step up would be a waterproof handheld radio for use when things go bad to worse. iPads and Baeofengs can't do that.

I still run all the old stuff: chart plotters, clunky old radar, depth sounder. It still works fine and is my backup to my dead reckoning navigation brain game.

sunchaser said:

I Pad with Navionics works OK in Canada.

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Yes, it does, quite well. We have loaded all the B.C> coast and from Puget sound at Olympia to Yakutat, Ak.

Minimum nav gear...

Chart, compass and a lead line.

VHF, depth sounder and a chart plotter would be prudent upgrades. I question the value of radar to the average fair weather boater. Too many threads read about poorly trained radar operators not really knowing what they're looking at.

For the real answer work the question backwards and ask yourself what your minimum capabilities should be.

Let me make the case for and against radar:


For a coastal cruiser, sooner or later you will find yourself in a situation where: the visibility is poor or you have to continue after dark. Radar can make either possible, but without it, not a good idea. And an integrated radar and chartplotter overlay display is really nice. Once while approaching Sandy Hook in a moderate rain storm at night, it was totally reassuring to see where the sea buoys were supposed to be but also actually see their real radar image superimposed.


The criticism of poorly trained radar operators is BS. I can use a radar well enough to avoid other ships, see sea buoys ahead and thunderstorm cells approaching.


But if you have the time, then you can just sit in place and let the fog lift. But once early in our cruising career while chartering a non radar equipped boat in Maine, we sat at Frenchboro for three nights out of a 7 night charter waiting for the fog to lift. I sure could have used radar on that trip.


David

Westcoastwannbe said:

Enough electronics for safe reliable navigation while coastal cruising in a typical powerboat...under 50 feet
Modern and up to date technology
Elegant clean look
Easy to learn and use
Fewest possible screens and displays that provide the information I need while traveling in coastal waters
Cost is what it is…willing to pay for a system that meets my criteria

Click to expand...

You can do a lot with a tablet and a couple apps.

But... you'll at least want a depth finder and a modern VHF radio.

And...

Do you intend to navigate at night and in fog or other poor visibility conditions? (speaks to radar or not)

Are you able/willing to manually steer the boat at all times while underway? (speaks to autopilot or not)

Will you want to negotiate maneuvers around large ships using the radio? (speaks to AIS or not)

Do you want everything displayed on one screen? (speaks to networking or not)


-Chris

I'd suggest looking at Garmin, given what you are looking for. The ipads and apps and other things will get you minimal cost, but that's not your prime objective. And they will be limited in their ability to expand (adding radar, sounder, etc), and I think result in a messier installation with exposed wires, etc.

From everything I've seen, Garmin provides a very clean and simple user interface that seems to click with people who are less tech savy. I'd plunk yourself down in front of one and play with it for a while and see if it clicks with you.

I think the advantage of a Garmin (or any vendor) multi function display is that you can make it as simple or complex as you want. With Garmin, there is one source for charts, so simpler than having to pick with other brands. You get a daylight bright screen, DC power, and a clear installation with no exposed wires etc. You can start with just the chart plotter and either and external or internal GPS receiver. I'd also highly recommend a depth sounder (the depth will display on the Garmin, you just need a transducer to sound the bottom.) Later, if you decide, you can add Radar or whatever you want.

I'm suggesting Garmin over Simrad and Furuno for a few reasons. First, as I said earlier, the Garmin interface seems to appeal most to people new to boating. But if you find Simrad or Furuno's interface "speaks" to you better, that can sway which brand you pursue. I'd favor Garmin over Simrad because I think you are much less likely to encounter problems, bugs, and odd behavior on the Garmin. And I'd suggest Garmin over Furuno because I think Garmin's design places the user interface as it's first priority. Furuno I think has the most sophisticated functionality, but is still a pretty clunky interface as compared to other.

I haven't mentioned Raymarine mostly because I just haven't looked at them for many years. On paper they have very good functionality, but so does Simrad. What really counts is the implementation, how easy YOU find it to operate because our brains all work differently, and how buggy the product is. This is where Simrad falls way behind. If you find yourself leaning towards Raymarine, I'd suggest doing a lot of owner research to see what sorts of problems people are encountering. Ray seems to be most popular in Europe, and with the sailing crowd.

I have a binnacle style compass, Eagle 350c color fisheasy modded to work with a Garmin 6 pin bronze thru-hull transducer, and a NAV PC running openCPN using cmap and NOAA ENC charts. Forgot, I also have an old SeaCom VHF that has a telephone handset for the mic. It is real clear sound too. I can click a switch so that it is private.

I built the PC as a core2duo 2.3 ghz all with used parts off ebay, for maybe $100 total.
For the OS I use Linux Mint.
I had a copy of cmap ENC charts, but you can use free NOAA ENC charts.
I got the LT-20 Delorme USB GPS for $20 off ebay.
I got the Eagle fish easy for $20 off ebay.
I got the bronze thru-hull Garmin transducer for $60 off ebay, had to carve my own wood fairing to fit to the hull.

I use a standard style Samsung 17 inch monitor, screwed down to the chart table thru it's base with one screw.

I located the PC 15 feet away.
Connected the monitor using a 25 foot HDMI cable.
I ran a 15 foot USB cable to a USB 3.0 7 port hub.
To the hub I attached keyboard, mouse, gps.

It all works fine. Modding the Eagle to work with Garmin was the hardest thing, but I really liked both the Fish Easy and the Garmin transducer. They are the same hertz, but had mod the resistance of the temp circuit in the fisheasy with a series POT inline.

I liked it so much, I did 2 of them, which allowed me to also use the older 7 pin thru-hull transducer already in the hull. The depth reading is the most important one, not the fish finding.
Album of those mods.
https://goo.gl/photos/sBZ4TPJZZsGDRrZBA

I have fixed and ipad, others have pointed out the pro's and con's so won't repeat, only thing I'd add is buy a water proof case for the ipad and I mount with a Seasucker mount, basically can put anywhere and that puppy really holds well, a lot of guys on center consoles use them.
Also have a guage sized depth digital reader with a shoot thru the hull transducer (quick and easy install).

I don't like lots of whizbang stuff either but after years of use I do like to have a good raster scan chart plotter, separate radar, scanning fishfinder for depth ( i dont fish) and a good remote mic VHF. And a good whisky compass. I always keep charts aboard as back up.

iPad with iSailor. Used it all over northern Puget Sound this year. Really simple, easy to use, reliable, minimal, incredibly accurate, and more info there when you need it. They have a chart package for your waters, and a very effective tides/current package that I bought, glad I did, very useful and simple. Cost effective too. Check out iSailor.

iPad and a Dual GPS puck will do the trick. I've been using it for a few years and it always works/easy to use/no clutter.

This is my layout.

You desire for "clean" may be in tension with your desire for simple, as clean is best satisfied by a single multi-function display, whereas simple may be better satisfied by stand alone units for the equipment you need.

I have a friend who much prefers simple (and non-integrated) in everything he does. In the case of his boat, it means a mono-chrome radar, a laptop chart plotter, a VHF and an autopilot (though he prefers to steer by hand -- I think he has it only when someone else takes his helm).

By contrast, my helm drives him crazy. Since it has 4 screens, when he was at the helm on an overnight, we set one to chartplotter, one to radar, one to scanning sonar, and left the 4th for him to play with. On that fourth screen, he found that he really did like FLIR, but I don't expect to see one on his boat anytime soon.

Seevee said:

Pgitug,



I'll add my baloney to this too. Nothing to do with each other. There's lots of options for a good solution for the OP. Insurance is a risk/benefit choice, nothing to do with electronics.



Insuring is betting that you will use it at some point. I could argue to spend your money on preventing that. What the heck does electronics have to do with that?

Click to expand...

The implication is that if you go bare bones on your navigation equipment you are increasing the risk of having an accident in bad weather. Thus the tongue in cheek recommended increase in insurance coverage. [emoji23][emoji13][emoji12]

I think the biggest problem is you haven't clarified what minimalist means to you. Do you want all the bells and whistles but with a single screen? Go for one of the big guys packages. Do you want a simple to use system with the basics? Grab a tablet and throw navionics (or the app of your choice) on it.

What is your boating experience?

What sort of cruising will you be doing? You don't need much if you only leave the dock on sunny days. If you plan on cruising to Alaska or Mexico then that might change the game. I do all my navigation on my tablet or even on my phone if I'm in familiar waters.I use my depth sounder to confirm the contours. AIS is high on my wants list followed by radar. I've gotten by without them for this long I'll probably wait until I buy my next boat. Forward looking sonar? FLIR? Some people might think they are in necessary and if we're spending your money then....

Minimaist to me is a Chart Plotter (Garmin), Raytheon Bi-data for depth, and AP.....

I removed much of the antique electronics on the boat when I bought it and de-cluttered considerably....(Koden Fish finder, and outdated Garmin 210).

I kept my vintage Furuno Radar for Nostalgia but I'll likely trash that eventually as well..!

Works for me. Do what works for you..

Westcoastwannbe said:

............ I like Apple products simply because they are simple with a small learning curve, they are robustly built and usually work.
................

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If Apple makes any marine navigation equipment it's news to me.

I would go with Garmin and the biggest display that will fit into your helm. Pretty simple and feature rich.