Layout question

cappy208 brought up a good point re cored hulls - you do not want core below waterline! So, that will not be the case with a Taiwan made older trawler, but their fuel tanks and such structural members as stringers and bulkheads did not stand up well for moisture ingression.
Having said that, in fact there are a lot of them out there, who's owners have taken care of them, they did not serve in the charter trade and they will survey well!

Re the other point brought up by cappy208:
After making my living for the last 30 years consulting with recreational passage makers (under power), I never steer a client away from a first big boat purchase.
You will eventually want to go up in size and so you might as well do it right out of the starting line. Otherwise you are paying brokers and surveyors while you move up one at a time.
Remember this (my disagreement with the good captain who had thrown off many of 100 ton masters from their watch) is that big boats handle better. More weight, less weather born influence, it's that simple. Once you learn the boat's peculiarities, an 80 footer (obviously has more below the waterline surface than smaller boats) will handle a hell of a lot easier than a 25 or 40 footer under the same conditions - do not be afraid to buy the biggest boat you can REALISTICALLY afford!

I don't know your experience with boats. If you haven't got a track record with larger boats I would certainly check with your insurance carrier to see what they will cover. It's my experience that moorage in the PNW gets pretty tough to find in a desirable area for over 40' and gets increasing harder the longer your boat is.

Wifey B: I suggest selecting a good anchor and then finding the boat that goes well with it.

Cappy208

My goal with my questions is to learn enough to be able to make my decision, when time comes. I am not expecting anyone to tell me which boat is the best. As all of you suggested here, it is very subjective, and based on lot of different factors.

I do get your point about the ' windage '. Here is a boat, which is long and tall, but the superstructure is not like the Canoe 53(60) was. What is your opinion? Is this still going to grab a lot of wind?

1989 Hi Star 58 MYF Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Thanks

Capt. Joe said:

While some have mentioned here about using every possible space to please the usual weekend boaters and family cruisers, a well found offshore trawler with liveaboard features will have lots of unused space for tools, spares, work space, easy to get around insulating water tanks, etc....

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Capt. Joe

I really like your opinion about space. I must share that I am not much of a party person and single, for now. I don't need bar, icemaker, etc. I want a functional boat, which I can handle even alone. Yes, I will be a weekend cruiser for few years. But when the time comes, I will go out there. ( I used to be a seaman at young age ) So, I need a boat, which is comfortable enough for liveaboard, but also seaworthy to go beyond the coastline. To me the solid hull, solid equipment is more important than entertaining and accommodating guest frequently. Again, I've done that at young age.
So, I am very open about the size of the boat. I believe, it has to be between 40-50, but it can be larger, if I can afford it and maintain it. It is an open book for now. As my knowledge evolves, my idea about the ideal boat is changing, of course. But the mentioned characteristics above are important to me.

BandB

So, what is the most important part of choosing the anchor: shape, weight, functionality?
Kind of like choosing a lady.... lol

Ka_sea_ta

You are correct, mooring is a big problem in the Seattle area for larger boats. I did an extensive search, but it comes down to the commute to work. I think I have found my solution, which will work for me, even if the boat is in the 50-60 range. So, that is kind of solved.
The insurance is also in place. I have talked to an agent already and it will be around $200/mo for over 50', because of the size and my lack of experience with pleasure yachts. I can manage that, too.
If I end up with a 40', all better. I think my limit would be around 55', but a nice layout 40'-er will make me happy, too. Again, it all comes back to the yearly expenses. If the budgeted 15-20% of the purchase value covers it, I am good.

utazo89 said:

BandB

So, what is the most important part of choosing the anchor: shape, weight, functionality?
Kind of like choosing a lady.... lol

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Choosing and then ignoring all those who say you chose wrong. And nothing like choosing a lady.

"Do you have recommended resources about construction?

Pascoe is a start.

Is this about the hull, or the whole boat?

You will own so have to repair/maintain the entire boat

What boat would you recommend?"

I would suggest you look at boats where the hull and deck are solid glass.

Foam core has little risk , balsa or plywood high risk.

Extend your boat search to "motor yachts" from just trawlers as many have the same engine and underwater shape.

If dockside living is the goal, but a boat that already is fitted out that way.

If you like cruising and spending time on the hook, find a cruiser already outfitted for non marina living.

FF

I am reading Pascoe's books now.
How would I find out about these details like, core/balsa/plywood? YW does not really say it. I would like to narrow down my search to those, which are less headache. Do you know a source? Or, I need to look up each boat I like, to find out how is it made? Sometimes, the web search does not say anything about the builder of a particular boat. This forum helps a lot, but a source with these details would be helpful.

I have seen books that detail many existing boats , but don't know weather they go in to construction details.

Perhaps a buyers broker would be able to sort the boats for you to visit..

In many cases US boats will have less buried plywood in deck & Pilot house and if you want a larger , usually more cruise oriented there are always metal boats.

Utaz

Are steps an issue due to handicaps? If not, enjoy the exercise you get. I find the tidal change on ramps to be a bigger challenge than the dozen or so onboard steps we enjoy. You want a big salon, small boat, low purchase price, good mechanical shape - lots of conflicts. Don't forget about good heating systems, the list goes on.

As suggested, look at many. Walk the docks. BTW, talk to Alaska Seduction on this site. He has the live aboard and cruising combination figured out.

Sunchaser

No, the steps are not a handicap issue. I am in good health. lol
I think the steps are just something about personal taste. But I am always willing to bend my rules, if it makes sense. Again, I am still evolving.

Thank you for the advice, I'll look him up.

utazo89

Forget this "windage" thing and pick up "Voyaging Under Power" by Beebe / Leishman. In it you will learn about things like prismatic coefficient and above-WL VS below-WL ratios.
All power boats have "windage" but if you are concerned about it (and it only enters the equation if you intend to go offshore and by that I don't mean just the Islands but 3 or 4 hundred miles offshore, as in a major passage) then chose a boat with a well found bottom and a good ration regarding what is under the boat.
My Wittholz 40 is ballasted and will right herself theoretically, but of course the superstructure would be washed off. Same with every other make of trawler; you can be stiff as hell but if a greansea boards you, the superstructures never stand up!
The only real safe power boats are the coastie's motor lifeboats - they are designed for a roll-over and yet they still sustain thousands of dollars worth of damage during the training that takes place on the Colombia bar.....

FF said: "Extend your boat search to "motor yachts" from just trawlers as many have the same engine and underwater shape."
Absolute truth!
Very few "trawlers" built today are actually trawlers. They just have the above waterline shape of trawlers because the consumer likes that design and don't mind to be foolishly driven to believe they are buying a capable "trawler".
Only a few makes can boast to be real trawlers, such as Nordhavn, some stabilised Krogens and the likes, and of course the custom one-offs that people commission to build.
Look at the Beneteau "fast trawler"; hell, Beebe is spinning around in his grave....

Capt. Joe said:

Look at the Beneteau "fast trawler"; hell, Beebe is spinning around in his grave....

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But the consumer is going for it. Very successful line. My favorite movies are never those the Academy likes. The boater isn't after that elusive, unknown "best boat", but after the one that suits their needs and desires.

I suggest that all "newbies" investigate insurance at the start of their search. I recently sold a 57' boat to a first time buyer. I had told him when we first met that insurance carriers may not allow him to leave the dock unless he has a captain on board with him. That was the stipulation when he did get insurance for this boat.
Check with your current agent to see if they insure boats as you already have a relationship with the agent.
Also if you want to finance part of the purchase get that lined up in advance also as financing for a live aboard is much more difficult and also harder for older boats.

yachtbrokerguy said:

Also if you want to finance part of the purchase get that lined up in advance also as financing for a live aboard is much more difficult and also harder for older boats.

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That is interesting, I understand the financing being harder for older boats but had not heard the same for liveaboards. Do housing laws turn a live aboard repossession effort into a foreclosure issue?

Gdavid said:

That is interesting, I understand the financing being harder for older boats but had not heard the same for liveaboards. Do housing laws turn a live aboard repossession effort into a foreclosure issue?

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I don't think it is a housing law issue. Personally, it never made sense to me. I lived aboard and my insurance went up. Some dropped me. I am the type of liveaboard that uses my boat. So me living aboard would be advantageous to risk, in my opinion. But insurance companies work off of risk and they have obviously seen historically that live aboards are more of a risk. Still don't know why....

Baker said:

I don't think it is a housing law issue. Personally, it never made sense to me. I lived aboard and my insurance went up. Some dropped me. I am the type of liveaboard that uses my boat. So me living aboard would be advantageous to risk, in my opinion. But insurance companies work off of risk and they have obviously seen historically that live aboards are more of a risk. Still don't know why....

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There is one housing element involved. In most states your primary home is subject to a homestead exemption in the case of a bankruptcy. Now, there is case law all over the place but at least in some states it appears that same exemption can be extended to a boat if that's your home. Florida law seems to specifically say a home on leased land is exempt, so that could apply to a boat in a leased slip. So, regardless of the legal outcome, a creditor would have some concern in that regard.

I think your mention of risk is probably the primary reason though. An added part to that. It's not just the risk of what happens to the boat. If one has no permanent land address, how do you track them down? Boats are already a challenge as people can move them, but then a live aboard moves the boat and themselves, even to other countries.

I really like both the Canoe Cove 53 and the 58MYF.
Three engines! That is so unique and yet, oddly, so practical. You get additional hp without having to go to much larger individual engines. You get to cruise on one, balanced!

If you like the layout of the CC 53, look at the CC 41 and 42, both have the same basic layout, just scaled to the smaller size. I have been very familiar with CC boats over the years, 41, 42 and 53. The biggest PITA with them is always the V drive. The CV joints are a definite weak spot, so check them thoroughly. Having the engines out back, some would say,"where they belong" gets you a true stand up ER, when you remove the cockpit hatches. (41s and 42s). The hulls are generally good, though some have had a lot of blisters (the 53 we surveyed but rejected for other reasons).
There are no new CCs, as the Co died in 1995.

yachtbrokerguy

I was aware already of the insurance restrictions. Personally, I would not risk to leave the slip, without having enough experience on my own. It is a big investment for me, and it would be irresponsible. I was planning to hire a captain to train me with the boat. If the purchase involves delivery as well, it will be part of my training by the delivery captain.

As of the financing, I went through pre-approval already in July. It just needs some updates, when I am ready to make another offer. So, I am good for my budget. Plus, I cannot do live-aboard for another 4 years. My daughter has to finish high-school first. Once it is time, I will refinance for live-aboard. By then, I will have enough experience, so I am not worried. I know that the payment is higher for live-aboard.

koliver

Yes, others told me about the V-drive, too. It is difficult to get to it. Yes, a 41/42 CC could work for me. I don't see many online, though.

"Do housing laws turn a live aboard repossession effort into a foreclosure issue?"

A documented vessel sold with a USCG bill of sale contract is very easy to reposes any where in the world.