New refrigerator, Vitrifrigo?

Here is a discussion of inverter powered refrigeratation on a motor home.

Residential Refrigerator Power Requirements

Answers many questions.

Donna --

I recently replaced an older Tundra with an 8 cu ft Vitrifrigio. It was supposed to be an exact replacement, but it wound up 1/4" taller and required some minor carpentry. Very happy with it, and it is performing much better than the old one, due to improvements in insulation, compressor, etc. I have the 120V/12V model.

Very pleased with my choice.

foggysail said:

Sure, it operates on AC but today one can purchase a 2KW true sine wave inverterter on EBay for under $200. So add the $500 cost for the fridge and the total for fridge and inverter is about 1/2 the cost for a marine replacement that offers fewer features.

Click to expand...

Could be the right solution for some, even many, but... may slightly mask the complexity of the issue.

It's a system, so not just a fridge... or a fridge and an inverter... but batteries, chargers, shore/genset power, even the basic wiring and breakers, etc. are also involved.

An AC-only fridge powered by an inverter benefits from some thought about battery banks (sizes, types, charging). Are the batteries sufficient during all foreseen situations? Including duration away from shorepower or off genset power? Or is the user willing to start the genset every time the boat will leave the dock?

And then about inverters: Would that be a single-purpose unit, dedicated to only one fridge? Or should it be sized to service other circuits too? Or, how many inverters would an owner want to install/have aboard if other circuits could benefit from an inverter too? Or how many inverters can an owner find space for? Or can feed? Multiple battery banks? Space for same? Periodic service for same? How closely to the battery source can the inverter (s) be installed? (Wire sizes.)

And so forth.

Not a recommendation, just thinking about a bigger picture...

-Chris

ranger42c said:

Could be the right solution for some, even many, but... may slightly mask the complexity of the issue.

It's a system, so not just a fridge... or a fridge and an inverter... but batteries, chargers, shore/genset power, even the basic wiring and breakers, etc. are also involved.

And so forth.

Not a recommendation, just thinking about a bigger picture...

-Chris

Click to expand...

Yes, everything on a boat is part of a system.

My very many years enjoying time on the water has shown me that for the most part, there are those who prefer to pay for all maintenance and those who try to minimize cost by doing things themselves. So expenses matter more to some than others even for purchasing refrigerators.

Inverters operating 24/7 as one of mine does causes a slight increase in our total 12v energy consumption. Prior to installing my 12v inverter my so called state of the art POS Xantrex 5012 (or 1250) just could not recharge my depleted batteries while on anchor with a 12vdc fridge. And my 7.5KW genny ran at least 6 hours/day. The Summit did not relieve the battery load at all, if anything it made it somewhat worse.

I got fed up with low battery warnings when away from the dock and installed 4 each 140-150 watt solar panels. Solar is just terrific! No more depleted batteries! We now are power pigs with two 32" TVs, lights, internet and the genny helps with hot water and coffee. Heck, Wifey even makes her toast and perks coffee using battery energy during times when we don't even run the genny.

My point pertaining to batteries is that no which avenue one chooses, marine or apartment style fridges, batteries require recharging.

Foggy

I'm not a fan of Vitrifrigo. Purchased a new GB a little over two years ago. The fridge needed work and was eventually replaced after two weeks as it would only maintain the temperature in the low 50s.Just replaced the thermostat on the freezer in the bilge after two years. Both units are drawer type that look good but need manual defrosting.
Previous boat was a Hatt that I ended up replacing the fridge and chest freezer with appliances from the large Brands Mart discount store. They would last between 7-12 years and then I replaced them (actually the delivery company installed the units). The cost is less than half than a marine unit.


Good luck.

foggysail said:

Yes, everything on a boat is part of a system.

My very many years enjoying time on the water has shown me that for the most part, there are those who prefer to pay for all maintenance and those who try to minimize cost by doing things themselves. So expenses matter more to some than others even for purchasing refrigerators.

Inverters operating 24/7 as one of mine does causes a slight increase in our total 12v energy consumption. Prior to installing my 12v inverter my so called state of the art POS Xantrex 5012 (or 1250) just could not recharge my depleted batteries while on anchor with a 12vdc fridge. And my 7.5KW genny ran at least 6 hours/day. The Summit did not relieve the battery load at all, if anything it made it somewhat worse.

I got fed up with low battery warnings when away from the dock and installed 4 each 140-150 watt solar panels. Solar is just terrific! No more depleted batteries! We now are power pigs with two 32" TVs, lights, internet and the genny helps with hot water and coffee. Heck, Wifey even makes her toast and perks coffee using battery energy during times when we don't even run the genny.

My point pertaining to batteries is that no which avenue one chooses, marine or apartment style fridges, batteries require recharging.

Foggy

Click to expand...

Whoa, no way am I paying for everything. If you have seen some of my previous threads, I have done ALL of the engine work myself including replacing the sight lines on my fuel. I don't mind getting dirty and changing fluids, replacing belts, along with doing my own brightwork, plumbing, etc. BUT at 124lbs., there are simply things I cannot do like humping a refridgerator. I purchased the boat 4 weeks ago and it doesn't even look like the same boat. I work on her almost everyday. I have a reserve for the things I cannot handle myself. The divers are going down next week. Could I do that myself? I really don't know. What I do know is I don't want to!

Donna said:

Whoa, no way am I paying for everything. If you have seen some of my previous threads, I have done ALL of the engine work myself including replacing the sight lines on my fuel. I don't mind getting dirty and changing fluids, replacing belts, along with doing my own brightwork, plumbing, etc. BUT at 124lbs., there are simply things I cannot do like humping a refridgerator. I purchased the boat 4 weeks ago and it doesn't even look like the same boat. I work on her almost everyday. I have a reserve for the things I cannot handle myself. The divers are going down next week. Could I do that myself? I really don't know. What I do know is I don't want to!

Click to expand...

DONNA!!!!

You are cordially invited to spend next summer on my boat!!! There you will be able to enjoy most of New England's seabirds in flight along with their chasing fresh meals.

Wifey and I will occasionally see that you get a fresh pizza ......cheeze only and small of course for special events. I will see that my screw gun is fully equipped with charged batteries and my entire tool arsenal will be at your disposal.


Now on a serious side.............GOOD FOR YOU, GO GIRL!!!!! Purchase the AC fridge along with a 2-4KW inverter from EBay and get some one to help 'hump it' into its new home.

I am proud of you!!! I joke with Wifey about being a fix it guy such as with our apartments. I HATE IT! I humped though 4 years of college to get a BSEE while working almost full time and now I am a fix it guy. One has to just keep smiling.

Foggy

Donna said:

Whoa, no way am I paying for everything. If you have seen some of my previous threads, I have done ALL of the engine work myself including replacing the sight lines on my fuel. I don't mind getting dirty and changing fluids, replacing belts, along with doing my own brightwork, plumbing, etc. BUT at 124lbs., there are simply things I cannot do like humping a refridgerator. I purchased the boat 4 weeks ago and it doesn't even look like the same boat. I work on her almost everyday. I have a reserve for the things I cannot handle myself. The divers are going down next week. Could I do that myself? I really don't know. What I do know is I don't want to!

Click to expand...

Donna, where have you been all my life! You sound like the perfect woman...not counting my wife, of course.

Goodonya! I love a strong woman! Married one and raised two more.

Aww c'mon guys! Blushing here.

I just get pride out of doing things myself.

I'm pretty much convinced a residential type 'fridge is in my future. My old Norcold 6.3 died so I'm looking for something similar sized to fit in the hole. I have two breakers to feed my 'fridge. One 12V and one 120V. I figure I can hook an inverter to my 12V breaker and voila, have pretty much the same functionality. I also hope that with a good efficient 'fridge and inverter setup, I'll use less battery power than my old noisy Norcold for way less money. Now, I just gotta find something that will fit without too much trouble. I may even go a little smaller and make room for a microwave above.

Kevin

I should have added to my previous post that the repair on the Vertifrigo freezer was over $300.00 after two years old, I could have bought a new freezer from a discounter for about the same price or less. It won't be repaired again.

Donna said:

Aww c'mon guys! Blushing here.

I just get pride out of doing things myself.

Click to expand...

Congrats to you.

I like the fact that you not only DIY but also hire out when needed and have a reserve for that occasion.

Drawing that line is different for everyone, which is pretty obvious when reading posts in this Forum.

I humped the old fridge off my boat and I'm NOT humping the new one back on without some help. At 66 my line has moved around quite bit over the years.

For those considering to use an EBay inverter with a fridge, I want to share my experience. First, there is no bigger bank for your buck than those inexpensive inverters. I paid around $500 for a kilowatt Xantrex POS sine wave unit which I later toasted by putting too much load onto it. I don't recommend Xantrex products.

So I purchased a 2/4 KW true sine wave unit at Ebay for under $200 which has its own peculiarities. My unit is advertised as "inverter for vehicle use" or similar words. Heck, an inverter is an inverter so I installed it and to my surprise, it caused an AC circuit breaker in the load center to trip.

These inverters work just fine IF THEY ARE ISOLATED from the normal AC grounded conductor....the white wire on most AC circuits. So if you decide to use one of these far less expensive inverters, you must isolate the inverter's AC output from your boat's AC neutral, grounded (whatever you wish to call it) conductor.

An easy way to do this is to just run your fridge from the inverter 24/7.

ah....not necessarily.

have had no problems with my last 2 cheapo inverters..

last one I just plugged my shore power into, the new one is hard wired into my main panel.

"These inverters work just fine IF THEY ARE ISOLATED from the normal AC grounded conductor....the white wire on most AC circuits."

ALL Power is grounded at its SOURCE the dock power pole , the noisemaker or the inverter .

WE have a $200 truck unit that runs 1500w and does everything asked .

One needs to spend big bucks for a sine wave unit for big induction (motor) loads.

Scuba compressor , water maker or air cond requires sine wave , most of the rest does not.

FF said:

One needs to spend big bucks for a sine wave unit for big induction (motor) loads.

Scuba compressor , water maker or air cond requires sine wave , most of the rest does not.

Click to expand...

Well bucks yes, but big?

Brand New Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter 1500 3000 Watt 12V DC to 120V AC | eBay


has a current bid of $102 with about an hour to run in the auction. A 2000-4000 watt true sine wave 12v/120vac frequently auctions in the $170-180 range.

Yes, a pseudo sine wave inverter which sell for less than a true sine wave inverter will run many small motors. But often times the motors will be louder than with a true sine wave. I prefer the true sine wave output for the few additional bucks.

Sine wave vs square or modified sine wave.

Imagine moving a load using repeated blows from a sledge hammer. Each strike will move it...that is a square wave. Modified sine wave, just speed up the frequency of the strikes. Same principle but faster, smoother.

Now imagine a rope secured to the same load wrapped around a smooth turning winch, moving the load at an even speed, no surge, no blows, just evenly applied torque. That is pure sine wave.

There is your difference.

Electric motors, electronics, microwave ovens and so forth need pure sine wave or they will not function as expected and likely have a shortened life, as a general rule. Resistive circuits, like your toaster oven it matters not, square or pure.

The grounded conductor is the Green wire. The Neutral (White) wire is connected to ground only at the AC source; if the boat is on shore power, that point is on the dock; if you're using an Inverter, the Green and White wires are connected at the Inverter output (only), and are isolated from the shore feed.

Not sure if that's what you're trying to say?

foggysail said:

These inverters work just fine IF THEY ARE ISOLATED from the normal AC grounded conductor....the white wire on most AC circuits. So if you decide to use one of these far less expensive inverters, you must isolate the inverter's AC output from your boat's AC neutral, grounded (whatever you wish to call it) conductor.

An easy way to do this is to just run your fridge from the inverter 24/7.

Click to expand...

SHASA III said:

The grounded conductor is the Green wire. The Neutral (White) wire is connected to ground only at the AC source; if the boat is on shore power, that point is on the dock; if you're using an Inverter, the Green and White wires are connected at the Inverter output (only), and are isolated from the shore feed.

Not sure if that's what you're trying to say?

Click to expand...

Vic--

Google the NEC's (National Electric Code) definition. The grounded conductor carries the load current, it is the so called neutral conductor or in single phase wiring the white wire. The grounding conductor is the green wire that bonds the equipment at the load to so called earth ground at the load center. The white wire, grounded conductor also connects to the earth ground at the load center.

Yes.... things were easier before this terminology became prevalent.

Yeah, I agree -- the terminologies can be confusing.

I understand that the neutral (white) wire carries the full AC load current -- in homes, it is frequently connected to ground at numerous places, through appliances, etc. No big deal in the home. The safety wire (green) should never carry the full load current.

On a boat, however, it becomes critical, and the ABYC gets more specific. Connecting the neutral to the ground at any point other than the source can have lethal consequences. Cheap appliances on a boat are one of the culprits, along with wiring faults.

At our yacht club, we do annual tests of every boat, for stray currents and proper grounding. Unlike in a home, electrical current and water can be a potent mix.

Cheers

foggysail said:

Vic--

Google the NEC's (National Electric Code) definition. The grounded conductor carries the load current, it is the so called neutral conductor or in single phase wiring the white wire. The grounding conductor is the green wire that bonds the equipment at the load to so called earth ground at the load center. The white wire, grounded conductor also connects to the earth ground at the load center.

Yes.... things were easier before this terminology became prevalent.

Click to expand...

Vitrifrigo 2600

Donna said:

LOL!!! I can have it installed on Wednesday. The same day my countertop icemaker is due to arrive. I have a ton of counter space.

Click to expand...

Hi Donna, your past thread indicated that you purchased an Vitrifrigo 2600.
Did you get it installed and are you happy with the performance of the unit? Will it keep the refrigerator at 38 degrees and 10 degrees or below in the freezer to keep Ice cream frozen? in the southern ambient temperatures?

I currently have a Nova Kool 9000 in my American Tug 41 and boat on the Chesapeake Bay. The unit has a hard time keeping the refrig at 42 and runs constantly.
At this time we are considering replacing it with the Viitrifrigo 2600.



The Admiral also want the freezer on the top!

Thanks in advance for any performance advice on the Vitrifrigo you can supply.
Ray

41AT-01 said:

I currently have a Nova Kool 9000 in my American Tug 41 and boat on the Chesapeake Bay. The unit has a hard time keeping the refrig at 42 and runs constantly.

Click to expand...

If you haven't already, you might call NovaKool to discuss symptoms and fixes. Could be something as simple as door seals...

FWIW, our NovaKool units are 15 years old, work just as new.

-Chris

41AT-01 said:

Hi Donna, your past thread indicated that you purchased an Vitrifrigo 2600.
Did you get it installed and are you happy with the performance of the unit? Will it keep the refrigerator at 38 degrees and 10 degrees or below in the freezer to keep Ice cream frozen? in the southern ambient temperatures?

I currently have a Nova Kool 9000 in my American Tug 41 and boat on the Chesapeake Bay. The unit has a hard time keeping the refrig at 42 and runs constantly.
At this time we are considering replacing it with the Viitrifrigo 2600.



The Admiral also want the freezer on the top!



Thanks in advance for any performance advice on the Vitrifrigo you can supply.
Ray

Click to expand...

Yep I sure did! Totally love it! Took the boat to the Bahamas for a month with all the food I needed. I had a crew also. Everything stayed frozen that was supposed to. Tons of space. Love that it switches over automatically from shore to battery bank power! It’s just a super easy fridge.

Our Vitrifrigo fridge doesn’t cool particularly well. At the max setting, it struggles to get to 40 during the summer with 72 degree cabin. We installed extra fans to ventilate behind the unit, but didn’t seem to help. Our freezer works great, though.

41AT-01 said:

Hi Donna, your past thread indicated that you purchased an Vitrifrigo 2600.
Did you get it installed and are you happy with the performance of the unit? Will it keep the refrigerator at 38 degrees and 10 degrees or below in the freezer to keep Ice cream frozen? in the southern ambient temperatures?

I currently have a Nova Kool 9000 in my American Tug 41 and boat on the Chesapeake Bay. The unit has a hard time keeping the refrig at 42 and runs constantly.
At this time we are considering replacing it with the Viitrifrigo 2600.



The Admiral also want the freezer on the top!

Thanks in advance for any performance advice on the Vitrifrigo you can supply.
Ray

Click to expand...

Ray, has it ever cooled well since you've owned the boat? If it never has, you might have an air circulation problem with the air surrounding the fridge rather than a faulty fridge. It's not uncommon for original factory installations to overlook this requirement.

My NovaKool requires significant venting to work properly. I followed a NovaKool engineer's advice to added foam insulation to the cabinet in addition to moving the fan from the back of the unit to a vent hole cut into the cabinet. It holds the box very cold even on our 100+*F summer days.

My Vitrifrigo, new avyear ago stays very cold and very frozen at a few clicks below max setting.

No extra ventillation and warm cabin conditionscall summer often above 80 degrees.

I really don’t understand why folks purchase marine refrigerators because of their high cost and low performance. My Summit is now about 10 years old and depending on how it is set, the freezer easily can hold -20 F and the box interior sets at 35-38 F. Of course if you have a marine unit, just make the best you can with it. If in the market for a new unit, it is wise to at least look at inexpensive (compared to marine) apartment sizes with self defrost. Heck, just run them full time with an inverter.


EDIT: I believe the Summit has provisions to operate without self defrost but it’s been awhile since I looked at its specifications

Fit into existing cabinetry and efficiency.

Good ones last long enough and do the job just fine.

Look narrow, see narrow.

psneeld said:

Fit into existing cabinetry and efficiency.

Good ones last long enough and do the job just fine.

Look narrow, see narrow.

Click to expand...

Sure, I agree and I would not have purchase my unit if it had not fit properly. It looks as if it belongs there. I do admit it took me awhile to find this particular unit which is no longer available. This I do know, if I need to replace it, I will certainly do a lot of looking to find a proper fitting unit.

foggysail said:

I really don’t understand why folks purchase marine refrigerators because of their high cost and low performance. My Summit is now about 10 years old and depending on how it is set, the freezer easily can hold -20 F and the box interior sets at 35-38 F. Of course if you have a marine unit, just make the best you can with it. If in the market for a new unit, it is wise to at least look at inexpensive (compared to marine) apartment sizes with self defrost. Heck, just run them full time with an inverter.


EDIT: I believe the Summit has provisions to operate without self defrost but it’s been awhile since I looked at its specifications

Click to expand...

Good point! I have a small $99 Costco 2-door 120V fridge secured on the port galley countertop. It runs off a $100 1000W inverter on a dedicated circuit. It keeps up just fine, but it's black, plastic/fake SS finish door gets hot to the touch in the sunlight with my twin cockpit doors open in summer. I have to drape a beach towel over it to keep the temps acceptable.